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Old 11-06-2016, 12:19 PM   #21
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My old truck had the 1995 7.3 in it and a manual 5 speed trans. I know they had more power as they got into the 99 through 2003 models with the intercooler but i was still concerned about the long term ramifications of chipping the truck so i never did. I talked with a guy at the diesel stop about the parameters changed with programming and chipping and was concerned about heat in the cylinders and the fact that the egt goes up tells me with the hp comes extra strains on the inner engine to make that hp. When i went to look for newer trucks i was looking at stock horsepower and torque and although i drove a couple that people had programmed and def deleted i didnt know what internal damage would be caused by changing parameters obviously studied in depth from the designers. just my 2 cents
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Old 11-06-2016, 04:03 PM   #22
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My old truck had the 1995 7.3 in it and a manual 5 speed trans. I know they had more power as they got into the 99 through 2003 models with the intercooler but i was still concerned about the long term ramifications of chipping the truck so i never did. I talked with a guy at the diesel stop about the parameters changed with programming and chipping and was concerned about heat in the cylinders and the fact that the egt goes up tells me with the hp comes extra strains on the inner engine to make that hp. When i went to look for newer trucks i was looking at stock horsepower and torque and although i drove a couple that people had programmed and def deleted i didnt know what internal damage would be caused by changing parameters obviously studied in depth from the designers. just my 2 cents


The tuning for a stock 7.3 is very safe these days. In fact a lot of testing has shown the factory tuning actually has a higher chance destroying the rods than a mild tube does.




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Old 11-07-2016, 12:18 PM   #23
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I went from a 7.3 to a 6.4. Quite frankly, Ford's 6.4 is a strong motor, and there's enough user feedback on the 6.4 now to suggest it's a good motor if you:
  1. Remove/disable/"delete" the emissions. If you live in a state where emissions testing is necessary, this wouldn't be for you.
  2. Use only OEM oil/fuel filters
  3. Follow the severe duty schedule for maintenance, which is oil changes every 5k and fuel filters every 10k
  4. Add a quality diesel treatment in your fuel tank.
Seems like a lot, but diesels are simply more maintenance, regardless of brand/year. My 7.3 was bulletproof...sadly, those days seem to be over, regardless of manufacturer.
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Old 11-07-2016, 12:57 PM   #24
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It might be time to let Betsy go. When I'm towing my TT out of OD I can only reach speeds of 60 mph without the motor reving too high. At 60 mph the rpms are around 2300-2500. My TV is in my sig line. 7.3ltr diesel, r4100 transmission. The rear gear ratio I don't recall, I'd have to check my original sticker.

Tonight I started shopping. 2017 is out of the question. A friend of mine tells me about tow haul mode after 2008 and transmission break after 2014. Don't know anything about this but if it's good for towing then I'm looking for 14'-16' Tonight I looked at a 2011 6.7 diesel 4 dr lariat. Everything in it was great except the mileage was too high for me to pay a note on, 100k. The bigger issue I had with it was that it was a short bed. I've always had 8' beds.

Questions. Are you guys towing with 8' box, short box. Is it a mistake going short. Also, please help me understand tow haul mode and tranny break. And lastly should I give in to a gasser instead of diesel. Is it worth me having a payment on a truck or should I be content with Betsy and chug along @ 60 on the highway
We have an 06 Ram 3500 we bought new,I opted for a 4:11 rear end so I could tow in overdrive, 4 wheel drive but costs me gas mileage.I think next time 2 wheel drive 3500 3:73 rear end.I think your diesel truck will be worth twice as much when you go to resell it.Being in Arizona we tow in the mountains most of the time.Never have a problem with over heating.You would be surprised the amount of gas trucks we see burned up on the side of the road.Hope that some help with some of your questions!
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Old 11-07-2016, 01:30 PM   #25
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I had an 03, 6.0 with an automatic and 4.10's that would turn about 1900-2K towing at 63 MPH in OD.

One thing you should consider is checking on the Ford forums (powerstroke) and see where the DEF vs Re gen years come into play if Ford has any? Ram had a series of years with Re gen prior to the DEF conversion and you should do your homework on that first.

I chose DEF over a Regen year due to it being my daily driver and there are some weeks that my truck does not get many miles on it to get the speed and temps needed to clear it. There is an argument to each side just see if there are any issues.

If you have a truck in the regen years it could go into a regen phase burning a lot of fuel to make heat after several local slow speed runs.

Once you drill down to a specific year or 2 keep looking further into components so you can figure out the best combo.

I have heard of some warranty issues not being covered through 3rd party, so look into that and verify either way.

Good luck and enjoy shopping!
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Old 11-07-2016, 02:40 PM   #26
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I drove the 2016 Ford F250/350 and liked it but was way overpriced. I ended up buying 16' Ram 2500 w/ 6.7 liter Cummins and I love it. Saved over $8,000 compared to the Ford and with the Laramie package, I lack none of the comfort features (including 8k in my wallet). Good luck with your hunt!
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Old 11-07-2016, 03:17 PM   #27
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Couple of things. First, I wouldn't recommend towing at speeds around 70. So what if people pass you. Slowing down to 50 on hills? so what, its not how fast you get there, is the journey. When I had my 5er, the TV I used was an F250 with the Borg Warner 4 speed manual and the old 300CID I-6 with the single barrel carter carb. I would drop to 50 on the flat in a head wind, topped a lot of hills in the Sierra Nevada mountains at 40 MPH. I still always got where I was going. I got 17 MPG whether I was loaded and towing or empty.
Meanwhile during the same era, my dad was towing with a 93 Ford F350 with the 7.3. The previous owner had put some Banks improvements on it and some sort of hot start system which allowed him to jump in and fire it up in any temperature without having to wait for the glow plug pre-heat. The result was having to replace the heads completely when the glow plugs burned out on one side (the hot start system had caused them to fuse to the head). Like you, his transmission lasted longer than expected. When it finally died, he had just turned 317,000 miles on it. I had to tow him 20 miles out of a backcountry hunt camp and 45 additional miles to town when his tranny quit.
One year, new heads, the following year a new transmission. He still holds, it was cheaper to do both of those jobs than it was to buy a new truck. Like you, he too pulled hills at 45 and 50 while watching the newer Fords and Dodges and Chevy's pull away and leave him in the dust.
When he turn 360,000, he traded in for a Dodge with the CTD, and a short box. He has not regretted it one bit. In fact both he and I traded our long bed Fords for short box Dodge's. I thought I would notice a difference. Not really, I still hunt the back country and cut lots of firewood every year since I heat my house primarily by wood. When I have to run 4X8 sheets of plywood or drywall, I just run with my tailgate down.
In the end, get what you believe you will be happy with.
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Old 11-07-2016, 04:34 PM   #28
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I've worked at a Ford dealer for over half my life. Here's my input:


7.3's were "bullet proof" as some will say but the lack power and torque as compared to todays diesels. Good engines, just not enough "umpf". Never go with a 1st Gen engine or trans. Ex. 2011 6.7's, 2003 6.0's, 2008 6.4's. Just don't. They're not worth the risk. Yes, most have done very well, but some are big problems. Too many different years with those setups to go with.


TRY to stay away from 6.0's period. Yeah, I know, people on here have them and love them. But I've seen horror stories. EGR coolers, oil coolers, injectors, high pressure oil pumps, stand pipes, dummy plugs, blue turbo-intercooler hoses, are all very common fixes on the 6.0. Avoid them if possible. 6.4's really weren't any better. Anytime you blend high and low pressure turbos together as a new setup, you're asking for trouble. 6.4's didn't last long at all (2008-2010). Ford knew they had a problem so they deleted that engine after 3 years of production. Brings us to the 6.7. Ford seemed to figure out the glitches on their diesels by now. All in all, a pretty decent engine but it still had it's faults. Out of all the 6.7's ever to roll through our shop, a majority are 2011's.(1stGen!) The 6.7 got better with time. Great engine now, if you can afford 65K-80K. 2012-2016 seem to be the best of the 6.7. So far.


Pre 2002 7.3
about 250hp-505lbft.


2005 6.0
275hp-570 lbft.


2008 6.4
350hp-650 lbft.


2011 6.7's
400hp-800 lbft.


2016 6.7's
440hp-860 lbft.


2017 6.7's
440hp-925 lbft.

You can really tell the difference between...let's say...2005 6.0 and a 2015 6.7. It's like night and day. Almost like gas to diesel comparisons.

Just showing you the evolution of the Ford diesels. These are just my opinions, being around the darn things for 30+ years. I know most of the part numbers without even having to go to my computer catalog! I've seen everything you could think of so don't take any of this to heart. Heck, you could get a 6.0 and get a half million miles on it...who knows. Good luck!
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Old 11-07-2016, 04:57 PM   #29
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One more thing...


Not EVERY 6.0 and 6.4 were problems. I have a tech here that's had his 08 6.4 since new and swears by it. He has over 380K miles on it and has never had a major problem. Figure that one out! I have customers that have had 6.0's since they came out with a half million miles on them and they're never been studded!! I don't understand it either. Maybe they've never had the engines under a heavy load or something...I don't know.
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Old 11-07-2016, 05:27 PM   #30
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Mine is running better than ever at 120k. Everything that can go wrong already has. Hope it oulasts me. It pull like a dream.
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Old 11-07-2016, 06:21 PM   #31
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I had an 03, 6.0 with an automatic and 4.10's that would turn about 1900-2K towing at 63 MPH in OD.

One thing you should consider is checking on the Ford forums (powerstroke) and see where the DEF vs Re gen years come into play if Ford has any? Ram had a series of years with Re gen prior to the DEF conversion and you should do your homework on that first.

I chose DEF over a Regen year due to it being my daily driver and there are some weeks that my truck does not get many miles on it to get the speed and temps needed to clear it. There is an argument to each side just see if there are any issues.

If you have a truck in the regen years it could go into a regen phase burning a lot of fuel to make heat after several local slow speed runs.

Once you drill down to a specific year or 2 keep looking further into components so you can figure out the best combo.

I have heard of some warranty issues not being covered through 3rd party, so look into that and verify either way.

Good luck and enjoy shopping!
DEF injection and Regeneration are 2 seperate things. The regen burns the soot out of the DPF. The DEF is injected down stream of the dpf into the SCR to reduce NOx. Every Ram since the swap from 5.9 to 6.7 (07) has a dpf and Regen cycle. DEF was introduced in the cab and chassis later on, not sure the exact year, then in 2013 on all the 6.7 cummins Ram trucks. They still have a regen process and DEF injection on all 13+ plus Rams. The regens are less on the 13+ trucks compared to prior years because of less EGR....less EGR allowed by SCR and DEF.
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Old 11-07-2016, 06:47 PM   #32
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Wow guys many thanks for the feedback. I welcome your opinions and experience. I'm on the power stroke forum too. I mostly lurk there and only post when I have a problem. Twp, much of what you posted is what I have heard too. Unfortunately a 2017 75k truck isn't in the cards right now. I haven't had a payment in 14 years. I hear guys paying 800-1000 a month. I just can't justify that kind of coin. Right now I'm looking at pre-owned to keep the payment from giving me a heartattack.
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Old 11-07-2016, 07:57 PM   #33
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Wow guys many thanks for the feedback. I welcome your opinions and experience. I'm on the power stroke forum too. I mostly lurk there and only post when I have a problem. Twp, much of what you posted is what I have heard too. Unfortunately a 2017 75k truck isn't in the cards right now. I haven't had a payment in 14 years. I hear guys paying 800-1000 a month. I just can't justify that kind of coin. Right now I'm looking at pre-owned to keep the payment from giving me a heartattack.


I bought my '15 Ram 2500 used with 12,000mi on it. Waited till after the new year cause there always seems to be a lot of lease returns at that time. I paid 10k less than new and the truck didn't even have a scratch on it.




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Old 11-07-2016, 10:48 PM   #34
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Well here's another take on the issue, are the any other issues with the truck? If there is nothing major you can spend some $$ have the tranny rebuilt, add a programmer or chip and save a bunch of $$. I added a programmer that really woke up the power in the 7.3 in modest "Tow Mode" really big difference. I looked at replacing my 2000 250 SD just because it's 17 years old, just under 200K all original except the programmer maybe a year and a half ago. So another truck 30-40K or keep old faithful. I can do a lot of fixing and not get close to that, plus the best part, it's paid for.

PS that 7.3 was used in school buses
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Old 11-08-2016, 06:43 AM   #35
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I forgot to mention that I'm getting 23 mpg while not towing in my Ram. Just sayin....and don't forget to vote today!
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Old 11-08-2016, 08:54 AM   #36
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I drove the 2016 Ford F250/350 and liked it but was way overpriced. I ended up buying 16' Ram 2500 w/ 6.7 liter Cummins and I love it. Saved over $8,000 compared to the Ford and with the Laramie package, I lack none of the comfort features (including 8k in my wallet). Good luck with your hunt!
X2. Been driving Rams and love them. A comparatively equipped Ram is almost $10000 less than the same equipped Ford. I will take the Cummins any day. Don't lock yourself in to one idea. Shop around.
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Old 11-08-2016, 06:13 PM   #37
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Duramax/Allison..although I own a Cummins 5.9L/48RE,I hope to find a deal on a pre-urea GM with an Allison.
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Old 11-19-2016, 05:01 PM   #38
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Do not do gas. Not worth it. Go diesel only. The new 6.4 L RAM HEMI has impressive numbers but its weak. Trans is weak on them (66rfe). These HD should have more HP and torque for 6.4L. I was about to buy one for payload reasons (4400 lbs payload) but after research , I will wait until they put Aisin trans and go to 8 speed. Hopefully truck will get 470 HP and 470 LB in the future. I would trade my TUNDRA 5.7 for that. otherwise diesel is the only way for heavy towing, period
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Old 11-19-2016, 05:34 PM   #39
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Do not do gas. Not worth it. Go diesel only. The new 6.4 L RAM HEMI has impressive numbers but its weak. Trans is weak on them (66rfe). These HD should have more HP and torque for 6.4L. I was about to buy one for payload reasons (4400 lbs payload) but after research , I will wait until they put Aisin trans and go to 8 speed. Hopefully truck will get 470 HP and 470 LB in the future. I would trade my TUNDRA 5.7 for that. otherwise diesel is the only way for heavy towing, period
I think the 6.4 this thread refers to is the Fors 6.4 diesel. 66rfe isn't weak, but it does suffer from crappy programming.

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