Time to change TOW vehicle for 24ft. JayFlight

[Insist on live music]

Seeking words of wisdom. (2019 JayFlight 24RBS is 7,100 lbs)

My 2006 Toyota Tundra suffers advanced FRAME rust and my mechanic declares it won’t pass safety inspection in 2022. It’s especially sad because it has only 76,000 miles! I live in Western NY prone to salty roads.

I’m comparing 2015 Ford F-150 twin-turbo 2.7L Eco-Boost and 2015 Chev Silverado 1500 with 5.3L.
I’d like to “go with” the Ford but even their 3rd generation EcoBoost engine has worrisome problems. (budget is around $30,000 before trade-in)

General opinions welcome!

[Midnightmoon]

Whatever you choose, treat the frame with Fluid Film as soon as you get the truck and then once a year afterword. Hopefully, it will keep you from experiencing frame rust issues again in the future.

[CAG]

3rd generation EcoBoost engine has worrisome problems

Then I certainly would not be going with that vehicle.



I suggest that while you will get opinions here you will not get detailed advice. There are various write-ups on various vehicle by people who have driven them, tested them against other vehicles and will give "technical" details. You will get "I like this one because that is what I drive" with little in the way of a comparison.

[Quantum]

From what I've seen the 2.7L is a pretty good balance between power and fuel economy.

The Ecoboost problems are very few and far between, but there isn't a tow machine quite like an Ecoboost...okay a diesel.

[TCNashville]

The Chevy 5.3L is a proven power plant. If you like the Ford better, try and find one with the non turbo charged 5.0L Coyote engine, another proven power plant.

[Insist on live music]

Thanks for mentioning "Fluid Film". I stumbled across it few days ago researching rust prevention.

P.S. in college I worked for Tuff Cote and believe Ziebart bought their process patent. Arrogant Ziebart over-charges for their service

[Insist on live music]

Thanks to all for 2nd opinion - especially Midnight Moon and TCNashville about "Fluid Film" and Fords' "Coyote" engine. Engine and transmission are big ticket items and though, I'm a FORD guy . . . I'm gonna zero in on the better-proven Chevrolet Silverado 5.3 engine. (sometimes we guys just need to "talk it over")

Happy trails to all !

[Lake Huron]

My old boss did a fair amount of towing with a 2.7L in the 7000lb range and wasn't very impressed. I went on a road trip with him in his new truck with the 3.5L(?) EcoBoost towing a trailer and small farm tractor GVWR in the 7k mark and I was fairly impressed.
My dad tows the same small farm tractor weights but with a Silverado 5.3L and the truck equipped with the max tow package and it seems to get the job done a little more easily.
The EcoBoost engines have turbos and there are some things extra things the need to be done if you want to make them last.
Myself, I got a Duramax. I can just hook and book with no worries.
Remember, there's no replacement for displacement.

[deepsea5]

Originally Posted by Insist on live music

Seeking words of wisdom. (2019 JayFlight 24RBS is 7,100 lbs)

My 2006 Toyota Tundra suffers advanced FRAME rust and my mechanic declares it won’t pass safety inspection in 2022. It’s especially sad because it has only 76,000 miles! I live in Western NY prone to salty roads.

I’m comparing 2015 Ford F-150 twin-turbo 2.7L Eco-Boost and 2015 Chev Silverado 1500 with 5.3L.
I’d like to “go with” the Ford but even their 3rd generation EcoBoost engine has worrisome problems. (budget is around $30,000 before trade-in)

General opinions welcome!

Just a question: didn't Toyota issue a recall for the rusted frame issue?
I have 2 friends that had their Tundra (2002 & 2005) frames replaced under a rusted frame recall. They are still running their Tundras.
https://www.autoblog.com/2016/11/14/...-truck-frames/

[gobdeep]

Sure did. There have been a few Toyota recall letters for this issue.

[gobdeep]

Ahh, tow vehicle weights and measurements. Something I've handled in my professional career for a long time as a LEO. I'll break this down by the numbers then with my opinion.

The facts
We need a little more detail on the MY 2015 F-150 and Chevy 1500. Short bed or long bed? 2x4 or 4x4? Regular cab, supercrew, or super cab? What is the payload capacity of your target vehicles (not tow capacity)? Without those details, there are a lot of numbers to sort through. (See attached PDF for the 2015 year).

• Essentially take your fully loaded travel trailer weight: 7,100 lbs (is that full or empty? Let's assume full).
• Then compare your tow vehicle max tow capacity: 7,600 lbs (that is using the lowest number for the 2.7L V.6 Turbo Charged 2015 F-150 at conventional tow).

So tow capacity appears to be within spec.

• Next is payload. Hard to calculate without seeing the VIN/weights door sticker, but I found 2,250 lbs on ConsumerReports.
• 2,250 lbs minus all the stuff you put in your truck (people, cats, dogs, propane tanks, grille guard, those extra thick steel skid plates, the weight of your weight distribution hitch hardware, whatever, etc.) minus your tongue weight (10-15% of your travel trailer weight). For argument's sake, let's go with 15% and say your tongue weight is 1,065 lbs. 2,250 lbs - 1,065 lbs = 1,185 lbs of remaining payload.

So payload appears to be within spec.

That's pretty good and more than what I have available on my F-250 once all the "stuff" is loaded in. Without having actual numbers to work from on the 2015 F-150, at first glance it appears everything is within spec. You still need to consider Max Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR).

The opinion (remember, opinions are like butts - everybody has one and they usually stink)

I treat tow vehicles like I treat travel trailer air conditioners. When deciding to go with the factory 13,500 BTU air conditioner or the upgraded 15,000 BTU air conditioner, my wife told me "Nobody ever complains about having too much cold air in the middle of summer. Go with the bigger HVAC."

When considering your tow vehicle, obviously budget is a huge factor and you certainly want to work within your budget, but also consider the load on your potential 2015 F-150 or 1500 purchase. Nobody ever complains about having too much tow capacity (well, I sure somebody has at some point).

• Is the vehicle equipped with a tow package?
• Does it have extra radiators for transmission, oil, or fuel?
• Does it have the stopping power I need if I slam on the brakes or do I need to upgrade the rotors and brake pads to something of a higher spec?
• Am I towing on mainly flat plains or am I going to do mountain towing?
• How big is the fuel tank? Should I upgrade? Can I upgrade?

These are all the questions my wife and I went through before we landed on a diesel 2014 F-250. Our 2021 24BH has a GVWR of 7,250 lbs and a curb/empty weight of 6,378 lbs.

With all of that considered, as I mentioned above, the most important thing any RV owner should ask themselves is "Can I stop the darn thing in an emergency?" If you have any doubts, keep looking. We have seen quite a few overloaded half ton trucks and SUVs pulling travel trailers way out of spec broken down on the side of I-40 and I-10. If you are confident you can stop in an emergency, which we had two pucker moments this past summer (damn city drivers), then you can travel without being on edge all the time and not become another statistic or ruin another family's life.

More opinion
I'm a fan of HD-series vehicles for towing. That is what they are designed for. Look at YouTube for crash test videos (NHTSA) conducted by IIHS/HLDI (based here in Virginia by the way). The 2017 F-250 is a rock.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_iiBHwtV8U

Compare that to a Chevy 2500 then look at Chevy 1500 and Ford F-150. You'll be amazed. Even a base model HD series is a good option, again, in my opinion.


In closing
- Compare your budget
- Compare your weights
- Compare crash test ratings
- Compare your desired travel and camping style
- Compare your "pucker factor" and "comfort level"
- Compare various facts and opinions
- Research extensively
- Pull the trigger



PFA a PDF for vehicle inspections as well as the Trailer Life Tow Guide in two parts (for file size reduction). Sourced from here: https://www.trailerlife.com/trailer-towing-guides/

[Scott]

If you are going with the 2015 Silverado 1500, find out what transmission it has. The 3.08 will not tow that trailer, but the 3.42 and the 3.73 will. The 3.08 was standard, the 3.42 and 3.73 were options. See the Chevy Towing Guide.

As others have mentioned, watch your payload. That is where you tend to have problems with a half-ton truck.

[Kim Gass]

Originally Posted by deepsea5

Just a question: didn't Toyota issue a recall for the rusted frame issue?
I have 2 friends that had their Tundra (2002 & 2005) frames replaced under a rusted frame recall. They are still running their Tundras.
https://www.autoblog.com/2016/11/14/...-truck-frames/

We had our 2000 Tundra frame replaced in 2012 at no cost. Don't know if it applies to your year.

[Cincinnati Kid]

Me? Super Duty with 6.2 gas. You won't know the trailer is there.

If you're thinking of the future-
250 for a TT.
350 for a small 5th wheel.
350 Dually and diesel for a large 5th wheel.

[Insist on live music]

Yeah. I took it to "West Herr Toyota" in Canandaigua (formerly LeBraun) and they declined my 2016 saying too old but - they, ARE accepting 2011 and newer. (I may simply try submitting to another dealer in Rochester).

[Murff]

I stayed out of this thread to see what other's (stinky?) opinions are. As one who currently has a 2017 F150 Screw with the 2.7 Eco Boost, I guess I am qualified to give a hands on opinion of the 2.7.

My F150 is loaded as far as towing is concerned. Full Tow Package with the "6900 Payload" whatever that means. Whoever ordered this truck even ordered the Unicorn Ford extendable tow mirrors. Given a choice, I would have preferred a 3.5 Eco Beast, or a 2018 with the ten speed transmission, but when this truck appeared with only 8600 miles on it last March, I grabbed it. Like most of us, the value of this truck has increased.

That being said, my previous TV was a 2011 Super Cab with the 5.0 engine. To be honest, the 5.0 is a better trailer hauler due to the larger horsepower. The 2.7 works a little harder and because of that, the MPG, while towing with the 2.7 suffers compared to the 5.0.

As for the OP and what he wants to buy, I am happy I am towing a 2015 White Hawk 20MRB that has only a GVWR of 5950 lbs. I don't think I would want to add another 1/2 ton of weight behind my current ride.

As for the Chevy 5.3, well as a life long Ford lover:


"Oh my God! Nooooo!!!!!"


M

[Jay2504]

I might be able to help the OP here, as I actually have a 24RBS and a 1/2 chevy truck. My 2014 truck is an extended cab 2wd with a 262 cubic inch V6 and 6 speed transmission with a 3.23 axle ratio. 4th gear is 1.15 to 1 and 5th gear is .85 to 1, making the effective axle ratios 3.71 in 4th gear and 2.74 in 5th gear. The truck will hold 5th gear on the freeway until you hit a slight hill, then it drops to 4th pretty easily. In 4th gear it pulls pretty easily, but uses more gas. With the bigger V8 engine, it would do better. If you get a truck with the 3.08 axle, then you can only tow in 4th gear. If you get the 3.42 gears, then 5th is very possible. Last year we got a 2020 2500HD with the new 400 cubic inch engine and 3.73 gears. (Also a 2wd extended cab, but 8 foot bed this time). I got the 18” wheels that effectively changed the axle to about 3,55. Transmission ratios are the same. Now I set the cruise control and very seldom drop into 4th. The big difference is stability. I thought it was all hype until I tried it myself. Hope this helps.

[deepsea5]

Originally Posted by Insist on live music

Yeah. I took it to "West Herr Toyota" in Canandaigua (formerly LeBraun) and they declined my 2016 saying too old but - they, ARE accepting 2011 and newer. (I may simply try submitting to another dealer in Rochester).

Well that's a bummer. The frame replacement was part of a class action lawsuit. Not sure if you would be covered under that? Might be worth researching.

Here's a link to Toyota's recall page: https://www.toyota.com/recall
Maybe something on there that can help.

[Bugzilla46310]

Originally Posted by gobdeep

Ahh, tow vehicle weights and measurements. Something I've handled in my professional career for a long time as a LEO. I'll break this down by the numbers then with my opinion.

The facts
We need a little more detail on the MY 2015 F-150 and Chevy 1500. Short bed or long bed? 2x4 or 4x4? Regular cab, supercrew, or super cab? What is the payload capacity of your target vehicles (not tow capacity)? Without those details, there are a lot of numbers to sort through. (See attached PDF for the 2015 year).

• Essentially take your fully loaded travel trailer weight: 7,100 lbs (is that full or empty? Let's assume full).
• Then compare your tow vehicle max tow capacity: 7,600 lbs (that is using the lowest number for the 2.7L V.6 Turbo Charged 2015 F-150 at conventional tow).

So tow capacity appears to be within spec.

• Next is payload. Hard to calculate without seeing the VIN/weights door sticker, but I found 2,250 lbs on ConsumerReports.
• 2,250 lbs minus all the stuff you put in your truck (people, cats, dogs, propane tanks, grille guard, those extra thick steel skid plates, the weight of your weight distribution hitch hardware, whatever, etc.) minus your tongue weight (10-15% of your travel trailer weight). For argument's sake, let's go with 15% and say your tongue weight is 1,065 lbs. 2,250 lbs - 1,065 lbs = 1,185 lbs of remaining payload.

So payload appears to be within spec.

That's pretty good and more than what I have available on my F-250 once all the "stuff" is loaded in. Without having actual numbers to work from on the 2015 F-150, at first glance it appears everything is within spec. You still need to consider Max Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR).

The opinion (remember, opinions are like butts - everybody has one and they usually stink)

I treat tow vehicles like I treat travel trailer air conditioners. When deciding to go with the factory 13,500 BTU air conditioner or the upgraded 15,000 BTU air conditioner, my wife told me "Nobody ever complains about having too much cold air in the middle of summer. Go with the bigger HVAC."

When considering your tow vehicle, obviously budget is a huge factor and you certainly want to work within your budget, but also consider the load on your potential 2015 F-150 or 1500 purchase. Nobody ever complains about having too much tow capacity (well, I sure somebody has at some point).

• Is the vehicle equipped with a tow package?
• Does it have extra radiators for transmission, oil, or fuel?
• Does it have the stopping power I need if I slam on the brakes or do I need to upgrade the rotors and brake pads to something of a higher spec?
• Am I towing on mainly flat plains or am I going to do mountain towing?
• How big is the fuel tank? Should I upgrade? Can I upgrade?

These are all the questions my wife and I went through before we landed on a diesel 2014 F-250. Our 2021 24BH has a GVWR of 7,250 lbs and a curb/empty weight of 6,378 lbs.

With all of that considered, as I mentioned above, the most important thing any RV owner should ask themselves is "Can I stop the darn thing in an emergency?" If you have any doubts, keep looking. We have seen quite a few overloaded half ton trucks and SUVs pulling travel trailers way out of spec broken down on the side of I-40 and I-10. If you are confident you can stop in an emergency, which we had two pucker moments this past summer (damn city drivers), then you can travel without being on edge all the time and not become another statistic or ruin another family's life.

More opinion
I'm a fan of HD-series vehicles for towing. That is what they are designed for. Look at YouTube for crash test videos (NHTSA) conducted by IIHS/HLDI (based here in Virginia by the way). The 2017 F-250 is a rock.

Compare that to a Chevy 2500 then look at Chevy 1500 and Ford F-150. You'll be amazed. Even a base model HD series is a good option, again, in my opinion.


In closing
- Compare your budget
- Compare your weights
- Compare crash test ratings
- Compare your desired travel and camping style
- Compare your "pucker factor" and "comfort level"
- Compare various facts and opinions
- Research extensively
- Pull the trigger



PFA a PDF for vehicle inspections as well as the Trailer Life Tow Guide in two parts (for file size reduction). Sourced from here: https://www.trailerlife.com/trailer-towing-guides/

^^^^^^ ditto. Good write up Gobdeep