To WD, or not to WD, that is the question....

Dougie123 · 09-03-2018, 06:41 AM

Hi all.

Just finished Trip #2 with our new TT HT 295DBOK (#8600 dry/ #10800 GVWR) and need some advice about WD. Truck has payload capacity of 2160lbs.

I’m thinking I don’t need WD...but need a sanity check.

Trip #1: Fully packed camper, #1200 WD Reese bars, 2x friction sway bars. Rear wheel well height 42.5”, front height 39.5”. Too much WD???

Trip #2: same as #1 but NO WD bars. See pics. Front and rear wheel well heights were exactly the same at 41”.

Only difference in ride I noticed w/o the WD bars was it took about one extra
“bounce” for the rear to settle after going over a dip or over a hump on the highway. But no porpousing etc...

W/O WD bars, bottom of trailer frame was 21” at the hitch, and 22” back at the bumper (38’ TT)....so essentially flat.

So considering the truck is flat and trailer is flat when hooked up, should I only be looking at WD if/when the rear of the truck is sagging/lower than the front?

Or should I be running WD all the time and thus my hitch is not set up correctly? (Ie truck nose is lower than rear).

Thanks in advance for your advice/comments.

Doug

SOMBATFAMILY · 09-03-2018, 06:55 AM

My understanding is that WD is needed if your TV rear end sag when hitch to trailer. Doesn’t hurt to have it and in your case doesn’t hurt not to have it.

ASTMedic · 09-03-2018, 07:03 AM

What's the ride height of the front end with no trailer attached? What year Ram and 2500, 3500?

**Midnightmoon** · 09-03-2018, 07:04 AM

Maybe missed it in your first post, but what are your empty wheel well measurements?

Bassdogs · 09-03-2018, 07:07 AM

Not sure why this is a ??. A trailer of this weight w/o WD hitch would be very unusual. Using a WD hitch would seem to be wise. You own it so why not use it.

GrumpyDad · 09-03-2018, 08:26 AM

Whell well height measurement is a proxy for actual axle weights. Many people use them with good results, but in your case, or any case where they provide confusing results, I'd recommend that you visit your nearest CAT scale and get true weights. It takes three passes to get all the info you need, but it's worth it.

I can't see any reason you'd want to run without the WD bars.

Rustic Eagle · 09-03-2018, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougie123

snip...... I’m thinking I don’t need WD...but need a sanity check.......snip

Doug,

The best sanity check is a CAT scale visit under loaded TV/TT conditions (full fuel, passengers, stuff, etc.). The CAT scale will confirm all your weights and required WDH size/adjustment.

I'm fairly confident you will find using a WDH with your particular TV/TT combination will be required to "maintain" proper weight distribution while in-tow, and will enhance the function of your two friction sway bars......, especially in less then ideal towing conditions.

CAT Scale how-to: https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f...v-tt-3871.html

Bob

clubhouse · 09-03-2018, 09:15 AM

The receiver itself might require WD based on tongue weight alone. I believe my Class C receiver was 1000/1500 limit. Up to 1000# weight carrying and 1500# weight distribution.

Dougie123 · 09-07-2018, 07:32 AM

Thanks all. I will have a chance to hit the scales next week, so will investigate then.

TWP723 · 09-07-2018, 08:13 AM

Short answer is YES, you should have a WD. WDH's do more than just distribute the weight. They control sway and keep your headlights aimed correctly. Not using one you'll start to notice tire wear quicker as well.

CampNow · 09-07-2018, 08:26 AM

Good idea to scale your truck empty, then hitched up (with the travel trailer loaded) with/without a WDH to get some real, objective numbers. First, how much tongue weight do you have---very important to know. In terms of sway, need a minimum of 10% tongue weight (10% of the trailer's gross weight on the tongue)---ideally 13-15% (assuming your truck can support the weight/payload). Fact: more tongue weight---less sway. Secondly, this will also give you the opportunity to see exactly how much weight you have on your front axle (empty, and hitched with and without a WDH). Important numbers to know---can't make an informed WDH decision (or accurately adjust a WDH) without these numbers---much more accurate than measuring the front and rear fender height.

We scaled our '16 Ram 3500 SRW Cummins (*) and Jayco Eagle 306RKDS (8300 lb. empty; ~9700 lb. loaded; 9950 lb. GVWR) and determined we didn't need a WDH. With 15% tongue weight (1,400 lbs.) we only lose 300 lbs. on the front axle. Hitched up (with NO WDH), our front axle weight is 4,500 lbs. (4,800 empty; FAWR 6,000 lbs.) and the rear axle weight is 4,900 lbs. (3,100 lbs. empty; RAWR 7,000 lbs.). Very good weight distribution (48% front/52% rear) without a WDH---thanks to that heavy Cummins engine sitting over the front axle. Rear sag is only 1.5 - 2.0 inches (we have no airbags or suspension mods).

Many would propose that we use a WDH to get the front axle weight back to 4,800 lb. However, after almost 10,000 miles towing cross-country (with and without a WDH) we concluded that's not necessary for our situation (i.e., YMMV). This conclusion is based on the aforementioned 48/52 weight distribution and realworld use. We have zero-sway, even with 30-35 mph crosswinds. Due to minimal sag, no headlight issues. Handling and braking is just fine. An added plus, we can hitch and unhitch very quickly---so nice not having to install, remove, store, maintain, and adjust a 100 lb. WDH.

(*) A 2014-2018 OEM Ram 2500/3500 Cat V receiver is rated for 1,700 lbs. of tongue weight---with or without a WDH.

curver900 · 09-11-2018, 12:28 PM

I would use it if not for the WDH part but the sway part... especially on windy days... it is sooooo nice... but it would appear you don't need it for distributing weight ...

DocBrown · 09-11-2018, 01:27 PM

The wheel height measurement is an actual specification in the owners manual of GM and Ford trucks. I'm not sure about RAM. For GM the spec is to adjust the WDH so that the front fender is back to stock height. So as said, it would be interesting to see the difference between your stock height and WDH height.

Don't worry about rear squat. That's why trucks have a bit of a rake to them.

How was it driving without a WDH? Did you hit any cross winds? That's usually the tell. If it feels squirrely then you need WDH. If steering feels normal then you probably only need sway control.

Dougie123 · 09-11-2018, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocBrown

The wheel height measurement is an actual specification in the owners manual of GM and Ford trucks. I'm not sure about RAM. For GM the spec is to adjust the WDH so that the front fender is back to stock height. So as said, it would be interesting to see the difference between your stock height and WDH height.

Don't worry about rear squat. That's why trucks have a bit of a rake to them.

How was it driving without a WDH? Did you hit any cross winds? That's usually the tell. If it feels squirrely then you need WDH. If steering feels normal then you probably only need sway control.

It seemed more stable without the WD, which tells me the WDH is taking too much weight off the hitch??? It did seem to take an extra bounce to settle, but was not pourpising.

Overall it felt better, but I’m going to hit the scales to be sure what I’m dealing with.

CampNow · 09-11-2018, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocBrown

The wheel height measurement is an actual specification in the owners manual of GM and Ford trucks. I'm not sure about RAM. For GM the spec is to adjust the WDH so that the front fender is back to stock height. So as said, it would be interesting to see the difference between your stock height and WDH height . . .

Granted, fender/wheel height is an easy way to get a general idea how weight is being distributed---it only requires a ruler or tape measure.

However, a tape measure or ruler cannot tell you TV axle weight, tongue weight, or trailer axle weight---important data one should know before and while attempting to adjust a WDH for the first time.

Why not visit a CAT scale and get all the above data (to include weight distribution), quickly . . . and more importantly, accurately---all at the same time?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocBrown

How was it driving without a WDH? Did you hit any cross winds? That's usually the tell. If it feels squirrely then you need WDH. If steering feels normal then you probably only need sway control.

First check is proper tongue weight (should be 10-15% of gross trailer weight; higher is better). Next check, verify proper weight distribution. If these two items check good and you still have sway (or feels "squirrely"), application of sway control would then be appropriate. Sway control should not be used to compensate for improper tongue weight and/or an improperly adjusted WDH.

Dougie123 · 09-16-2018, 08:15 PM

UPDATE:

I went to the CAT scales on our way back from this weekends camping trip.

Couple of data points:

In cab of truck: Dad, Mom, two teenage boys.
All RV waste tanks empty.
1/2 tank diesel.
GCVWR of TV: 25,300
GVWR (TV): 10,000
TV Payload: 2160
TV Tow Rating: 17,200
TT Weight from factory: 8660
TT GVWR: 10,900

With WD bars ON:
Truck weight: 9820
TT weight: 9200
GCW weight: 19020

With WD bars Disconnected:
Truck weight: 10000
TT weight: 9020
GCW weight: 19020

TV and TT Separated:
Truck weight: 8840
Tounge weight: 1260
TT weight: 8920
GCW weight: 19020

So in summary, if I have this right:

*14% of TT weight on the hitch. (TT balanced well.)
*260lbs of cargo in TT.
*900lbs of payload capacity for passengers, bikes, etc after TT is attached.
*WD moving 180lbs back to the TT. (Seems low)

So my effective tounge weight is 1260-(180*14%) or 1234lbs. Which means I have 13.4% of the trailer weight on the hitch when the WD is hooked up?

So back to my original question: With WD the REAR wells of the truck ride 2” HIGHER than the front wells , and without WD the front and rear wheel well heights are EQUAL.

However, since the 2” Reese shank is rated to 1000lbs without W/D, I MUST use WD.

BUT, since the truck is not level with W/D, does that mean my WD Head needs to be adjusted?

Many thanks in advance for your wisdom and advice!

ASTMedic · 09-16-2018, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougie123

So back to my original question: With WD the front of he truck rides 2” HIGHER, and without WD the front and rear wheel well heights are EQUAL.

However, since the 2” Reese shank is rated to 1000lbs without W/D, I MUST use WD.

BUT, since the truck is not level with W/D, does that mean my WD Head needs to be adjusted?

Many thanks in advance for your wisdom and advice!

Your TV is 2" higher than what? The rear end at that time? The stock height?

What was the front axle weight during the 3 different weights? That weight will tell if you're returning the weight to the front end.

The WD hitch isn't about making the TV level but returning weight to the front axle when hooked up so that your TV will steer correctly and safely

Dougie123 · 09-16-2018, 08:38 PM

Sorry. REAR wheel well is 2”higher than front wheel well with WD bars attached.

ASTMedic · 09-16-2018, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougie123

Sorry. REAR wheel well is 2”higher than front wheel well with WD bars attached.

Did you get front and rear axel weights with each pass? The scale is usually a split scale showing front and rear TV axel weights separately. I want to see the no trailer front axel weight and the front axel weight with the WD bars hooked up

artoo93 · 09-16-2018, 11:33 PM

Looking at the weights, I am reading that you are almost 1k lbs over the rated weight of your Class IV hitch without using a WD hitch (A class V hitch has a 2.5" receiver). Yes, you can probably travel comfortably without one but myself, I would use it and readjust it to keep the weights balanced like they should be.

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