Tow Capacity Isn't How Much You Can Tow

[HDRam]

Originally Posted by Marcm157

Tow capacity is about as clear as Einsteins theory of relativity to some. As Norty said - some folks just swallow what a salesman says as gospel. Sadly, they endanger themselves and others with their lack of understanding. The vehicle manufacturers bear some responsibility for posting misleading info about "Tow Capacity" as well.

Tow capacity is just a number like Jail is just a room....

The vehicle manufacturers puts out a tow weight rating based on a standardized test with standardized equipment. It isn’t the vehicle manufacturers responsibility to educate the consumer on how that rating changes with different trailers with different characteristics, loading conditions etc. It is the consumer that misinterprets what that tow weight rating actually represents. When a towing combination hits the road it’s the driver’s responsibility to know their equipment and limitations not the salesman’s. Very few consumers actually have the knowledge to make good assessment of how a trailer may tow or how all those many ratings interact with each other. The best thing the consumer can do is educate themselves from reliable sources which rules out most Internet forums before making a purchase not after.

[Marmot]

Originally Posted by LuckyDuck

Actually the 747 is pushing the Chevy to the shop

And the 747 is pulling a RAM

[LuckyDuck]

Originally Posted by Marmot

And the 747 is pulling a RAM

...pulling a Tundra pulling the space shuttle...

[misfit]

I sold this boat this spring. I told the buyer they shouldn't tow it with there Yukon. I told them the boat weighs 9000 lbs on the trailer. I know , I weighed it when I bought it. I set it up to have the correct tongue weight and towed it with an F350. It towed great. They told me the Yukon had a tow capacity of 9000 lbs and they would be fine. They sent me this pic a month later. They said they were going 55 and a semi went past them at around 75 and set them swaying uncontrollably. Luckily no one was hurt. The truck was totaled along with the boat and trailer.

[Murff]

[QUOTE=misfit;903435]I sold this boat this spring. I told the buyer they shouldn't tow it with there Yukon. I told them the boat weighs 9000 lbs on the trailer. I know , I weighed it when I bought it. I set it up to have the correct tongue weight and towed it with an F350. It towed great. They told me the Yukon had a tow capacity of 9000 lbs and they would be fine. They sent me this pic a month later. They said they were going 55 and a semi went past them at around 75 and set them swaying uncontrollably. Luckily no one was hurt. The truck was totaled along with the boat and trailer.

Thats a harsh lesson learned!

Murff

[Bob The Camper]

Bar none. The best explanation. Great channel to follow as well.
https://youtu.be/qwFLOBrADBs

Safe travels!
Rk

[davolson]

I have seen comments on other threads regarding the nice even limit of 10000 lb GVWR chosen in some areas for registration limits. 10K registered as a pickup, over 10K a much higher registration bill for a "truck" rating. On my F250 6.7D: Front axle rating 5990 Rear Axle rating 6340. My own CAT weights towing our 28.5RSTS are 4977 front and 5447 rear putting me nearly 400 pounds over the 10000 GVWR yet w close to a thousand less on each axle. Each axle rating is to the pound, but this nice round 10K GVWR seems odd. Wondering if others feel some of this is a "registration" issue. (Skip the legal discussions please). No squat, and handles like a dream but always am concerned about the magic 10000 and being a bit over.

[Spaceguy85]

Originally Posted by KCSA75

But it takes a Chevy to tow a 747, which is a lot bigger than a space shuttle.

A Space Shuttle is about 20 times heavier than a 747. After all, you do not need SRB's to launch a 747. So I guess you were just joking, huh? I have worked in the space industry for over 36 years now, and I always was told that that the Toyota had alot of other help from the trolley used, which, as I was told, had motors of its own.

[Midnightmoon]

Originally Posted by davolson

I have seen comments on other threads regarding the nice even limit of 10000 lb GVWR chosen in some areas for registration limits. 10K registered as a pickup, over 10K a much higher registration bill for a "truck" rating. On my F250 6.7D: Front axle rating 5990 Rear Axle rating 6340. My own CAT weights towing our 28.5RSTS are 4977 front and 5447 rear putting me nearly 400 pounds over the 10000 GVWR yet w close to a thousand less on each axle. Each axle rating is to the pound, but this nice round 10K GVWR seems odd. Wondering if others feel some of this is a "registration" issue. (Skip the legal discussions please). No squat, and handles like a dream but always am concerned about the magic 10000 and being a bit over.

Absolutely it is just a arbitrary number for registration purposes. With very few exceptions, the 250/2500 series is all but identical to the 350/3500 single wheel offering from that manufacturer. The most notable right now is the rear suspension difference between the current generation Ram 2500 with coil springs and the Ram 3500 with traditional leaf springs. In other cases, it is minor differences, overload springs, spring rates, etc. Axles, brakes, wheels, tires, etc. are otherwise identical.

I refer to the difference between the listed GVWR and the actual axle ratings as the "grey area". It may be over that arbitrary listed GVWR but well within safe axle ratings. As you mentioned, there is a completely separate conversation to be had about the legality of "registered" GVWR for privately owned vehicles (Commercial or Federal DOT is a different animal all together), but this isn't the time or place for that since it varies so greatly from state to state.

[cekkk]

Originally Posted by gladecreekwy

It’s not how much you can tow it’s how much you can stop

Or as someone here once said, it is not about gopower, it is about whoa power

[Scottenj]

Originally Posted by Midnightmoon

Absolutely it is just a arbitrary number for registration purposes. With very few exceptions, the 250/2500 series is all but identical to the 350/3500 single wheel offering from that manufacturer. The most notable right now is the rear suspension difference between the current generation Ram 2500 with coil springs and the Ram 3500 with traditional leaf springs. In other cases, it is minor differences, overload springs, spring rates, etc. Axles, brakes, wheels, tires, etc. are otherwise identical.

I refer to the difference between the listed GVWR and the actual axle ratings as the "grey area". It may be over that arbitrary listed GVWR but well within safe axle ratings. As you mentioned, there is a completely separate conversation to be had about the legality of "registered" GVWR for privately owned vehicles (Commercial or Federal DOT is a different animal all together), but this isn't the time or place for that since it varies so greatly from state to state.

If you design a vehicle to have a 10,000 GVWR and you put in 2 - 5,000 pound axles it would have be be perfectly evenly loaded to reach 10,000 pound without exceeding an axle limit. I think they always over spec the axles to allow for uneven loading.

[alwalk63]

As someone who sells trucks for a living this is a sore point for me. I think all party's have a responsibility to ensure they are pulling safely.

I think if a manufacturer wants to advertise a towing rating they should show the actual truck in the spec.

Not showing a 1 ton dually crew 4by4 when it's actually a regular cab dually 2wd. Don't blame the manufacturer, there are so many combinations of truck builds can sizes and engine transmission choices.

The sales people should be trained properly to understand and recommend the proper truck or trailer

The buyer should be held responsible that they are towing safely with a truck that will do it properly. On this forum people seem to care and want to do this properly. That is sadly not always the case on the real world.

I can't tell you the number of times people have listened to my recommendations and then went ahead and bought the lighter truck because they don't want to drive a heavy duty truck every day.

Don't even start on the guys who do lift kits on the trucks and don't take that into consideration.

[cekkk]

Over many post send a few years whenever folks are pondering that age-old question, can I pull it, I have pulled out the Toyota / space shuttle commercial cited above. Lately I've posited this simple analogy that may be helpful to those of us lacking a PhD in abstract math. Imagine Towing your bass boat at the manufacturer's rated tow rating. Now imagine pulling a fully rigged sailboat. Still comfortable? (tongue in cheek)

[Donna]

I think this is all FAKE NEWS!! And a HOAX! LOL

[K Holbrook]

I camped next to a guy who was pulling a 42’ Montana with a 2500 Chevy. I remember looking at Montana’s before opting for our Northpoint, and the pin weight was much heavier than the Northpoint. He also had a 100 gallon auxiliary diesel tank installed in the bed of his truck. I can almost guarantee that the yellow sticker on his truck door would have his truck rated around 2200 pounds of cargo capacity. The 5th wheel probably had a pin weight if 2800-2900 easy. He traveled from Virginia to North Dakota every year with their trailer. I’ll bet his cargo weight was over 5000 pounds when he was all said and done. But he didn’t have a card in the world. Just crazy!

[bono]

To the contrary - when manufacturer sets the payload number, they cannot assume that you e.g. use weight distribution. Therefore they need to assume that you could put all the cargo in the back of the car. Payload is just an arbitrary number, not very important in towing (even though many think otherwise). Much more important are axle limits and tire loads.

Originally Posted by bankr63

And further limited by RGAWR. The payload capacity listed generally assumes a well distributed load. A 5er puts all that pin weight directly over the rear axle, and is more likely to overload the rear axle even if the pin is lower than payload. Some manufacturers list pin weights in their towing guides which (I assume) take into account that load distribution.

[bono]

100% agree with this. I am still struggling with understanding, why people are blaming sales guys (blaming manufacturers is new to me) for selling them trailers that are not good match to the tow vehicles? It is responsibility of the buyer to get educated and to understand what towing is about. In Europe you need to pass additional test to tow larger trailers. Dealers are not in advisory business and they are SELLING things.

Funny thing - I needed to convince my sales guy to let me tow the trailer with the vehicle I showed up for. Even on this forum I was almost crucified, when I asked about towing my current trailer with my current tow vehicle. 20k towing miles after, the setup is doing great, stable as rock... but I spent hundreds of hours researching and educating myself in what is really important when towing. Of course, I am not trying to present myself as the greatest expert in towing, however, I believe I know much more from majority of those who are disapproving my setup when I enter a campground

Originally Posted by HDRam

The vehicle manufacturers puts out a tow weight rating based on a standardized test with standardized equipment. It isn’t the vehicle manufacturers responsibility to educate the consumer on how that rating changes with different trailers with different characteristics, loading conditions etc. It is the consumer that misinterprets what that tow weight rating actually represents. When a towing combination hits the road it’s the driver’s responsibility to know their equipment and limitations not the salesman’s. Very few consumers actually have the knowledge to make good assessment of how a trailer may tow or how all those many ratings interact with each other. The best thing the consumer can do is educate themselves from reliable sources which rules out most Internet forums before making a purchase not after.

[bono]

Trailer has its own brakes, so stopping is not a problem. Proper connection between the trailer and the tow vehicle is the key.

Originally Posted by gladecreekwy

It’s not how much you can tow it’s how much you can stop

[colby]

Originally Posted by bono

To the contrary - when manufacturer sets the payload number, they cannot assume that you e.g. use weight distribution. Therefore they need to assume that you could put all the cargo in the back of the car. Payload is just an arbitrary number, not very important in towing (even though many think otherwise). Much more important are axle limits and tire loads.

If you are over payload, then you are also over GVWR. Are those both arbitrary numbers?

[Jay2504]

Space shuttle empty weight = 165,000 pounds.
747-100 empty weight = 385,000 pounds. Jay