Tow Capacity Isn't How Much You Can Tow

[mrrgolf]

Question the Chevy suburban dry weight is 5800 pounds and the Towing capacity is 8000lbs because I have the 4WD. Explain to me how Chevy says the GVWR is 14k? That would really mean you can only tow 6500 pounds if I have the suburban fully loaded at its max 7500 GVW. I have a Jayco that is 7600 max so I can only have 6400 in my suburban correct? Is this why I’m having trouble with sway?
Thank you for your help

[mrrgolf]

CAG where online is the best calculators? Thank you

[bono]

Just an example. BMW is using the same payload across all X5s (yellow sticker states 1,100 lbs regardless of the engine version or options). The suspension is basically the same in 35i, 35d and 50i, and there is 300 lbs difference between the approved gross vehicle weight between 35i and 50i. They are basically manipulating gross weight with adding 1,100 lbs payload to net weight.

This is not all. I went with the car to CAT scale. The payload appears to be almost 1,400 lbs.

Answering your question - yes, GVWR is also an arbitrary number.

Originally Posted by colby

If you are over payload, then you are also over GVWR. Are those both arbitrary numbers?

[bankr63]

Originally Posted by mrrgolf

Question the Chevy suburban dry weight is 5800 pounds and the Towing capacity is 8000lbs because I have the 4WD. Explain to me how Chevy says the GVWR is 14k? That would really mean you can only tow 6500 pounds if I have the suburban fully loaded at its max 7500 GVW. I have a Jayco that is 7600 max so I can only have 6400 in my suburban correct? Is this why I’m having trouble with sway?
Thank you for your help

You need to get the various acronyms straight to understand, and I think you have one acronym wrong. The GVWR is the total weight that can be carried by the vehicle's 4 (or 6 for a dually truck) tires. If your number is a correct GVWR, then you would have an 8,200 lb payload capacity (unheard of!). I'm pretty sure that your 14k is the GCVWR or Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating which is the combined weight of the vehicle and any towed trailer (really how much the drivetrain can safely move, and the brakes can safely stop).

To look at it from the CAT scale, if you pull onto the scale with your trailer, your GVW of the tow vehicle is the combined number of the steer and drive axle and must be below the GVWR, and the GCVW is the combined weight of all 3 scale pads (Steer, Drive, Trailer) and must be below the GCVWR.

With that out of the way, yes your Suburban can tow 8k lbs IF you have almost nothing loaded into the Suburban itself. As you load people and gear you are subtracting from your what you can safely tow. IF your TT is fully loaded to its rated 7600 lbs, then your Suburban should not weigh any more 6400, but that means that it can only be carrying about 600 lbs of people, gear, dogs, etc.

Note also that carrying capacity is probably less than that 600 lbs as your 7600 lb trailer is taking somewhere around 1,140 lbs (15%) off of the payload capacity, you may not be able to put 600 lbs into the TV if you are exceeding either your payload capacity or more importantly your RGAWR (Rear Gross Axle Weight Rating). You really need to know what your payload capacity of the TV and tongue weight of the loaded trailer are to make a full assessment.

If you are overloaded (and you probably are), it can cause handling difficulty including sway, or braking issues, not to mention wear and tear on the TV drivetrain as it is working for long periods at the extremes of its capability.

[colby]

Originally Posted by bono

Just an example. BMW is using the same payload across all X5s (yellow sticker states 1,100 lbs regardless of the engine version or options). The suspension is basically the same in 35i, 35d and 50i, and there is 300 lbs difference between the approved gross vehicle weight between 35i and 50i. They are basically manipulating gross weight with adding 1,100 lbs payload to net weight.

This is not all. I went with the car to CAT scale. The payload appears to be almost 1,400 lbs.

Answering your question - yes, GVWR is also an arbitrary number.

Wow, that's a bold statement. I would be tempted to check with a lawyer or your insurance company on that. If I recall correctly, those numbers are not just pulled out of thin air, but are assessed and safety standards like SAE J2807 applied (here's something that describes J2807 - https://fifthwheelst.com/SAE-J2807-Tow-Tests.html)

I guess that all the money and effort that the manufacturers spend on defining their vehicle tow ratings (if it was as simple as just picking a number, why did it take so long for Ford to come out with their numbers for the 2021 F150 - it was announced and shown in June, but the tow numbers and engine specs just came out)?

I certainly hope that anyone who actually follows your "arbitrary" advice (even yourself) doesn't get into some incident where the overweight numbers for their setup make them liable for damages, or the death of innocents. These things are usually put into place for the safety of others, not just the operator of the vehicles, like drunk driving laws, or that there are posted speed limits on roads, or speed limits on tires (maybe I want to do 120m mph towing my trailer which has tires that are spec'd at 65 mph, but heck, that's an arbitrary number also)...

Best of luck...

[colby]

Originally Posted by bankr63

You need to get the various acronyms straight to understand, and I think you have one acronym wrong. The GVWR is the total weight that can be carried by the vehicle's 4 (or 6 for a dually truck) tires. If your number is a correct GVWR, then you would have an 8,200 lb payload capacity (unheard of!). I'm pretty sure that your 14k is the GCVWR or Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating which is the combined weight of the vehicle and any towed trailer (really how much the drivetrain can safely move, and the brakes can safely stop).

Bankr,

GVWR has nothing to do with the weight that can be carried by the tires, axles, etc. You may find that the axle ratings exceed the GVWR of the vehicles. As defined in Code of Federal Regulations, Title 49 (Transportation) - 49 CFR § 571.3 - Definitions (a copy that can be found here - https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/571.3):

Gross vehicle weight rating or GVWR means the value specified by the manufacturer as the loaded weight of a single vehicle.

I can put on tires that hold more than the OEM tires that the manufacturer installed, but that won't legaly increase the GVWR of the vehicle, only the manufacture can do that. It's why one F150 have a GVWR 0f 6800# and another at 7500#. It's suspension, parts, and goodness knows what other engineering is different between the two vehicles. The legal GVWR is what is stamped on the door. And almost all third-party load-leveling devices (air bags, helper springs, etc.) have caveats that state that they assist in maximizing the safe-load limits or your vehicle, I have yet to see one that states that they will help you exceed that.

[bono]

I just gave you an example that those numbers are arbitrary, since you asked. I am not providing any advice. If you want to pay me, I could reconsider. I am sure these numbers are not pulled from the air. But the example I gave you just shows that they are arbitrary.

Similarily, with limits that are relevant for registration fees or towing rating of euro suv (it is not a coincidence that the vehicles are rated to 3,500 kg 7,700 lbs. Above 3,500 kg you need a special license in europe.).

Originally Posted by colby

Wow, that's a bold statement. I would be tempted to check with a lawyer or your insurance company on that. If I recall correctly, those numbers are not just pulled out of thin air, but are assessed and safety standards like SAE J2807 applied (here's something that describes J2807 - https://fifthwheelst.com/SAE-J2807-Tow-Tests.html)

I guess that all the money and effort that the manufacturers spend on defining their vehicle tow ratings (if it was as simple as just picking a number, why did it take so long for Ford to come out with their numbers for the 2021 F150 - it was announced and shown in June, but the tow numbers and engine specs just came out)?

I certainly hope that anyone who actually follows your "arbitrary" advice (even yourself) doesn't get into some incident where the overweight numbers for their setup make them liable for damages, or the death of innocents. These things are usually put into place for the safety of others, not just the operator of the vehicles, like drunk driving laws, or that there are posted speed limits on roads, or speed limits on tires (maybe I want to do 120m mph towing my trailer which has tires that are spec'd at 65 mph, but heck, that's an arbitrary number also)...

Best of luck...

[Ericl]

[QUOTE=curver900;901914]If you have a toyota you can "tow" a space shuttle.. [/QUOTE

Not impressed, last week I see this guy in his Chevy, pulling a Jay Flight through the mud, pushing a Ford, with a rope.

[curver900]

[QUOTE=Ericl;904046]

Originally Posted by curver900

If you have a toyota you can "tow" a space shuttle.. [/QUOTE

Not impressed, last week I see this guy in his Chevy, pulling a Jay Flight through the mud, pushing a Ford, with a rope.

you should have looked closer he was also pulling a dodge with a construction paper chain!

[cekkk]

So it's okay for salespeople to misrepresent, endanger or outright lie I suppose. After all, they are SELLING stuff!

[JohnWedell]

My truck can tow 20,000 pounds. I can tow 40,000 pounds of chickens if I just keep half of them in the air at all times. (LOL)

[cekkk]

Originally Posted by JohnWedell

My truck can tow 20,000 pounds. I can tow 40,000 pounds of chickens if I just keep half of them in the air at all times. (LOL)

Just a tip. If you can get them pointed forward your gas mileage will be great!

[Ericl]

Originally Posted by JohnWedell

My truck can tow 20,000 pounds. I can tow 40,000 pounds of chickens if I just keep half of them in the air at all times. (LOL)

I might buy into that one if you plucked em first, fully feathered and all that drag I call BS.

[curver900]

Originally Posted by JohnWedell

My truck can tow 20,000 pounds. I can tow 40,000 pounds of chickens if I just keep half of them in the air at all times. (LOL)

That right there is funny.. thanks for the laugh!