Tow milage

[WELLCRAFT]

We just traded a 99 F250 with the V10, for a 05 F350 with the 6.0 diesel, have had the truck for 4 weeks and beginning to think we were sold a bill of goods that our mileage would be much better and towing would be better and that we would never look back at towing with a gas motor. Well at this point i couldn't be more disappointed. mileage around town is really no different and though I only towed our Jayco to the dealer and back with is about 30 miles both ways I'm not impressed. I was wondering if anyone out there is towing the same trailer and what i can expect. we tow a 2010 Jayflight G2 31BHDS.Thanks for any input. John.

[Crabman]

My buddy has an 03 with the 6.0 and his mileage has been miserably dissappointing, along with a few major repairs and many headaches. He said it got better mileage before they did all the software upgrades. He does not tow an RV, but even with just towing a utility trailer for our Scout Troop the mileage was not good, I have personally witnessed that.

[thomasmnile]

I never towed with my 2003 Tundra, but with the V8 engine, the fuel mileage was nothing to write home about (12 mpg in city driving, 14-15 mpg in highway driving). OTH, the '05 Ram 3500 diesel I currently have equals the Tundra's city fuel mileage and on the highway is better by about 30%. Impressive to me when you consider the Ram weighs over 7000 lbs to the Tundra's 4400 lbs. and the Ram has a 4.10 rear axle. Towing? I was pulling an over 12000 lb. fifth wheel with it before buying our Jayco Whitehawk. The towing fuel mileage ranged from 9.5 mpg (hilly terrain and windy) to as high as 13.5 mpg on flat terrain with light winds at 60 mph. The average highway towing mileage I saw was around 11.5 mpg. It is improved towing the White Hawk (way less mass), but I haven't traveled enough yet to know how much better.

While improved fuel mileage (overall it is not a huge improvement IMHO) may be a reason to buy a diesel, the higher low end torque of the diesel is probably the big reason many folks buy a diesel if they tow a heavy trailer or tow a lot. With the price spread between No. 2diesel and 87 octane gasoline what it is, a diesel owner sure isn't seeing any particular benefit at the pump. Maintenance might be a bit of a saving, since the diesel can go longer between oil changes (real far if you pay for oil analysis and use a good quality motor oil), but that "advantage" is wiped out by the fact the typical diesel engine requires 3 gals. or more of oil for an oil change. About the only maintenance advantage I've experienced to date; no tuneups. The first time a 5.9 Cummins should see a wrench is 100-150,000 miles to adjust the valve lash. And of course, when things on a diesel engine do go wrong, the repairs and parts costs can take your breath away.

All that said, I really don't need the beast I'm driving now and would probably unload it but for one reason..........it's paid for!

[chipper]

wellcraft,

I'm sorry to say, you're not as disappointed now, as you will be when the engine problems start cropping up. Problems are EGR valve, EGR cooler, Head bolts, Head gaskets, Turbo charger fins, High pressure oil pump, High pressure fuel pump, Injectors, Cam positioning sensor, to name a few. FORD dumped Navistar as their diesel engine provider for the F series trucks. Navistar breached their contract through unreliable engine component design. That said, the 6.0L can be made Bullet-Proof(but, not at a lack of investing a great deal of money)
Our company owns more than 250(two hundred & fifthy) F series trucks. The majority are equipped with 6.0L Navistar engines. We had so many problems with them, they are now going to V 10 Gas engines. Fuel mileage is about the same, but the reliability of the engine is something to celebrate.

Good luck,

[Old Blue]

My sons father in law had a 04 ford with the 6.0 and went through 4 Turbos and still had a lack of power and bad milage He wanted his old 7.3 back in the worst way. I have a 04 Dodge CTD and get around town 10 to 12 out on the HWY I get 18 to 20 the best I ever did was 22 but with that said I only have 45,000 miles on the truck. but when pulling trailer 25RKS I get 10 to 14. Oh I forgot I have 373's gears in rear axle

[clubhouse]

As you are hearing there is lots of known issues with the Ford 6.0/6.4 PSD. These mainly revolve about elements with the emission products the Gov't mandated and head studs. That said there are lots of aftermarket options to "bullet proof" that motor and tuning to improve just about everything. Caution when tuning, use reputable tunes and tuners...there can be a lot of unintended consequences.

Did the previous owner tune the truck before you got it?
If you live in a no diesel smog state, I strongly recommend you do a EGR/DPF Delete...that will improve things considerably.

As for Diesel vs gas fuel improvement. My comparison is a Stock Chevy 1500 Gasser to Stock Chevy 2500 Diesel...2004 5.3L 3:73 Average 9MPG towing vs 2007.5 LMM Duramax 3:73 12 MPG towing. So yeah there is a fuel economy improvement (~30%) but that isn't what I went to diesel for. I wanted the improved torque and HP that the diesel provides for mountain towing...plus it gives me more options when we upgrade trailers.

Get on the PSD forums...they can provide a lot more information.

By the way, you didn't say what MPG you are getting now. Also, what did you expect? Maybe it is a matter of expectations.

[hausknwa]

We started towing with a 2003 Toyota Tundra V8. Not towing we would get 10 to 12mpg around town and 15 mpg max on the highway. When towing with the Tundra we would average 7 to 8mpg. We traded for a 2005 Dodge 2500 (single cab, longbox) with a 5.9 Diesel. Not towing we averaged 15 to 16 mpg around town and 20 to 21mpg on the highway. When towing with the Dodge we averaged 12mpg. There was no comparison between the Toyota and the Dodge pertaining to towing ability/power. We recently traded for a 2012 Dodge 3500 crew cab / longbed. We also have a new 5th wheel. I calculate that we are towing about 14,000 lbs fully loaded. On a recent trip to FL from centeral NY we averaged 11MPG. I expect the mpg to improve as the engine breaks in. Most notable is the increase inpower, I can set the cruise and the truck is not hunting gears regardless of the hills. I am not sure that I am saving money with the large price diff between 87 oct and #2 fueland when you consider the price increase for the diesel engine I know I am not, but I am a lot more comfortable and I feel safer towing a heavy load.
Just my experience & I know others feel differently.

[THABULL]

Originally Posted by chipper

wellcraft,

I'm sorry to say, you're not as disappointed now, as you will be when the engine problems start cropping up. Problems are EGR valve, EGR cooler, Head bolts, Head gaskets, Turbo charger fins, High pressure oil pump, High pressure fuel pump, Injectors, Cam positioning sensor, to name a few. FORD dumped Navistar as their diesel engine provider for the F series trucks. Navistar breached their contract through unreliable engine component design. That said, the 6.0L can be made Bullet-Proof(but, not at a lack of investing a great deal of money)
Our company owns more than 250(two hundred & fifthy) F series trucks. The majority are equipped with 6.0L Navistar engines. We had so many problems with them, they are now going to V 10 Gas engines. Fuel mileage is about the same, but the reliability of the engine is something to celebrate.

Good luck,

Yep I have't heard the 1st good word about a Ford 6.0 PSD , everything I've been told is to run as fast and as far away as you can from them. Most diehard Ford fans will tell you they are absolute junk.

[WELLCRAFT]

Well thanks for that vote of confidence before I bought this I did some homework as far as that known problems and knew what i was getting into with that. My mechanic that does my state inspections has an 06 6.0 and loves it not 1 problem with 55000 on it. I heard the bad stories as well as some good ones. after talking to the dealer,I was told that the 6.0 up until 04 had it share of problems than from 05 on they clean them up a little. I've been told a good set of gauges to mont. EOT and ECT are a must to catch any problems before they become big problems. I bought the truck with 32000 on it and did get a 5 year 60000 mile warranty
to go with it. I understand that buying a truck for the mileage is foolish but I was hoping for better than 7.5 to 8 mpg when towing. Thanks for the input though. John

[chipper]

7.5 to 8 mpg?

My previous service truck, 2005 F-450, 6.0L Navistar with all tools and equipment weighed 14,200 Lbs. It averages 12.5 mpg.
My new 2012 F-450, 6.7L (Ford designed and built diesel engine) scales out at 14,700 Lbs. and averages 14.2 mpg.

Our local division of 4 technicians have 5 diesel truck.
We keep a spare truck, because we have no idea when one will be in the shop for repairs.

[Panhead]

I have the 6.0 in our 2007 F250 and I love the truck. Our last truck was a Chevy Silverado with a 5.3 LTR and we pulled a 27ft TT Mileage was about 8.5 to 10mpg depending on conditions and terrain. That trailer weighed in at about 6500. Now in out Ford we pull a 34ft 5er weighing about 11,000 loaded and are getting from about 10.5 to a bit over 11.5 and I'm very happy with that. When not towing I get about 14-15 mpg mixed city/highway and about 17.5 to 18.5 highway only. I am aware of the potential problems with the 6.0 and also have a Ford ESP for extra insurance. I do maintain the truck as laid out by Ford but I change the coolant at about 30K. Lots of folks who bad mouth the engine have never owned one so they are only parroting what they hear. I'm very happy with my truck so far and would own another. There are 10s of thousands of these motors out there doing just fine, in fact there is a guy over on the FTE forum who just did a complete rebuild on his engine but he had 582,000 miles on it when he tore it down. Lots of guys out there with 200k on them.

Steve

[Seann45]

6.0 Ford diesel was a lemon... ford is suing Navistar over it. HOWEVER there are things you can do to get better mileage. Tires... you want highway tires not knobbies. Change out your air filter for a low restriction washable one... Doing this my D-max gets 22 mpg highway solo and 13 towing.

[TCNashville]

Wellcraft, Steve is right. I had a 6.0l in my 05 Excursion and really liked it. I did my homework and it seemed they had all the bugs worked out by 05. The only issue I had was at 120k the egr valve failed. 300 bucks and I installed it myself. I strongly recommend at some point that you have an aftermarket egr cooler installed. I think they run somewhere around $400. I was getting around 10.5 mpg towing 8000lbs. 19 mpg on the hwy without towing. My maximum mpg's came after the engine had about 50k on it. Remember, the harder you work the 6 liter, the cleaner it stays. I traded it in this year with 170k on it for a new F-250 with the 6.7. By the way, my 2000 Excursion had the Triton V-10. I thought it was one of the finest engines ever made. Good luck. Terry

[tinlizzie23]

We have an F350 with the V-10 gasser, and have had absolutely NO problems towing an 11,000# 5er. Maintenance is much simpler than a diesel, and gas mileage suffers only on long steep hills. I average about 9-10 mpg towing, and while the diesel gets a little better on average, you can buy an awful lot of gas for the extra $7,000 cost of a diesel. JMHO

[clubhouse]

Originally Posted by tinlizzie23

you can buy an awful lot of gas for the extra $7,000 cost of a diesel. JMHO

Yes you can buy a lot a fuel for $7k, but remember there will always be a premium for a diesel over a gasser. Diesel is a lot like 4x4 in the sense there is up front cost, different maintenance requirements, and not everyone needs or can justify it; but a lot of the upfront additional cost comes back when selling it later on.

[FoxFanRay]

I went out on a limb and bought a Ford F-150 with the 3.5 liter Eco-Boost motor. The little engine produces tons of power with a nearly flat torque curve above 2500RPM peaking at 420 ft/lbs. around 3000 rpm. Towing our 8000# trailer it gets 11 mpg. Without the trailer, around town I'm getting 18, highway 23 mpg. At times on a very level road at a steady 50 mph, it gets around 27 mpg. The 'limb' side is the 2 turbo-chargers, 4 valves/cyl, direct cylinder high-presure fuel injection, DOH Cams with independent cam timing. etc. etc....

I love the power it produces, and the non-towing milage it gets. We'll see if I made a good decision.

[nylyon]

The 6.0 is a temperamental engine. I have had problems with mine, but mileage is not one of them. Empty I can easily see 22 highway. Around town I get about 16. Towing my 5th, it of course drops but still 12-14 is pretty typical. I haven't pulled with a V10 so I can't compare, but I understand that the V10 is a beast. If you're seeing really poor mileage, you may have another issue with the truck. FICM, High Pressure Oil leaks, Injectors, Turbo are all pretty common across all years and something to look into.

[edatlanta]

The biggest factor I see in getting better mileage when towing or not, is to keep your foot out of it off of the line and slow down. Jack rabbit starts kill mileage and trying to drive the same way with 4-5 tons behind you as you do when not towing is a real mileage killer, not to mention being very hard on your transmission.

I am a very non-aggressive driver. I accelerate slowly towing or not and I regularly see 12.5 mpg towing and 20 mpg when not towing. My cruise speed when towing is 60 mpg maximum and 65'ish when not towing. My truck is bone stock and will remain that way.

One thing I will NEVER do it change my air cleaner to a K&N type. Way too much "stuff" allowed through the filter and then through my engine. High flow=less filtration. Numerous independent tests have proved this. Besides, cleaning that filter is messy and not nearly as easy as just popping in a new OEM one when needed.

[DieselX]

Originally Posted by edatlanta

The biggest factor I see in getting better mileage when towing or not, is to keep your foot out of it off of the line and slow down. Jack rabbit starts kill mileage and trying to drive the same way with 4-5 tons behind you as you do when not towing is a real mileage killer, not to mention being very hard on your transmission.

I am a very non-aggressive driver. I accelerate slowly towing or not and I regularly see 12.5 mpg towing and 20 mpg when not towing. My cruise speed when towing is 60 mpg maximum and 65'ish when not towing. My truck is bone stock and will remain that way.

One thing I will NEVER do it change my air cleaner to a K&N type. Way too much "stuff" allowed through the filter and then through my engine. High flow=less filtration. Numerous independent tests have proved this. Besides, cleaning that filter is messy and not nearly as easy as just popping in a new OEM one when needed.

Yep, fuel mileage drops off very steadily above 55 mph, It's a fact. Only mods that will help much besides slowing down are gearing and aero dynamics.

[WELLCRAFT]

I bought this truck because it is a crew cab needed more room for 2 kids, the V10 was an extended cab and as the kids got bigger the cab got smaller, also for the additional puller power I though. A lot of people I have spoken to over the past couple of days/weeks must never towed with the V10 so had no comparison. but at this point I'm stuck with this for a while anyway and maybe I'll get use to it. never owned a diesel before. have done a lot of home work as far as maintenance. also dropping off at dealer on weds. to see if the truck has been programed before and if so can they flash it back to factory. there were signs of a programer be in the truck. like i said earlier the other appeal for this truck was that it only has 33000 on it and is spotless inside and out. I never really posted much of my own questions on here and want to thank everyone for there input. John