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Old 10-04-2011, 09:05 AM   #41
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snip......My numbers were simply to assume that all factors between the 3500 and 2500 are equal with the exception of the springs.

Your thinking is correct from a vehicle rating standpoint, that without properly documenting a change it may not increase the total GCWR on the vehicle which becomes a DOT question. It may be worth looking into though.
3'senough,

I appreciate your reply and additional weight data. I hope I didn't come across that I was challenging your line of thinking (I apologize if I did), but what I didn't know if there was a pound-to-pound direct "increase" between the SRW 3500 GAWR and GVWR, when using Smitty's 2500 TV GAWR as a base line. Also, I have absolutely no idea how an automotive manufacture classify/rate there vehicles (GAWR, GVWR, etc.) when you go from a 2500 to 3500, so that remains a mystery. I was once told that there was a "degrade" percentage incorporate into the equation for drive train warranty purposes.

I had an idea of where you were going with the 2500 to 3500 spring package upgrade, I just wasn't sure if there were some other limiting factors that the manufacture (Dodge) had in the equation (going from 2500 to 3500) that would limit using the full weight advantage increase between the two GAWR's, hence the GVWR question.

Actually, the laws, regulations, and DOT weren't on my mind, but like you stated; "My numbers were simply to assume that all factors between the 3500 and 2500 are equal with the exception of the springs", which I felt was your thinking when you first proposed the SRW 3500 spring package alternative. I became more curious about the SRW 3500 GVWR (I didn't know what it was) thinking that it may provide some additional credibility in support of your thoughts, just didn't know how much more weight it added above the 2500 GVWR.

But we are on the same page in respect to we don't know what else (if anything) Dodge uses to to distinguish the GVWR weight difference between a 2500 and SRW 3500 of two equally equipped trucks (other than the spring package).

What's interesting is that the delta between the two GVWR's (2500/3500) is only 500lbs, but the payload delta is 720lbs (3,020lbs - 2300lbs).

The one thing that I have gleamed from this discussion is that I now better understand why I hear statements on different RV towing forums that imply that "many" 3/4 ton trucks towing FW's are above their respective weight limits.

Great ideas and discussion!

Bob
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Old 10-04-2011, 09:53 AM   #42
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snip......My heads swimming from all of the abbreviations but it is all very, very interesting. My wife is even getting in on it........snip
Smitty,

Well, it's apparent in your posts that you throughly understand how your TV's weight limits influence it's capability in towing any particular FW you may be considering, that alone will keep your head above water

Another thought comes to mind....., Do you know what is challenging for many RV sales departments....?, an informed customer. At least you have the knowledge to make a confident decision going forward based more on fact, rather than assumptions.

Smitty, thus far the RV Dealership your working with seems to be looking out for your best interest, so I hope that there is a FW they can offer that meets with both you and your wife's expectations.

Bob
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Old 10-04-2011, 10:21 AM   #43
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Thanks Bob, Just got word from the Dealership that the Pinnacle is offically canceled with no recourse to me. I really do believe that this Dealership is looking out for our best interest. Yes, I sure have had crash course on load limits. I do take them seriously or I would not have canceled an order that I already put $5,000.00 down on. My wife and I are going to the Dealership on Saturday to see what we can come up with. Thanks for all of the input, it sure helped me out.
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Old 10-04-2011, 12:51 PM   #44
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Smitty,

With all this technical stuff going back and forth I didn't catch that your home base is the Michigan UP, mine is SE Michigan.

I spent a month last summer camping around the UP and plan to do it again sometime in the future...... lot of great CG's in the UP.

Maybe you can add a CG recommendation to this thread: https://www.jaycoowners.com/showthread.php?t=4494

Bob
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Old 10-04-2011, 01:46 PM   #45
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Eagle,

I don't take anything personal. Nor were you coming off in any negative way. You seem to know your formulas very well in this area...must have been a great algebra student in your days.

The end result was a positive one for Smitty. He apparently has a great dealership that he is dealing with so I too hope that he finds the perfect setup for his truck that fits the "must have list".

Smitty, maybe once you settle on a unit (if you do) give the dealer a plug just for being a straight shooter with you. Good Luck.
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Old 10-04-2011, 02:13 PM   #46
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That I will do.
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Old 10-05-2011, 09:04 AM   #47
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Smile Final Decision

I just want to let all of you know what our final decision is, regarding a new Jayco Fifth Wheel. We are doing nothing for now. We are holding off on any new purchase and will be keeping what we currently own which is a 2011 Cougar, 36ft. 327RES that we purchased new in the Spring of 2010. Its pin weight is 1,520 lbs with an unloaded weight of 10,131. All of these limits fall within range for my tow vehicle and I have always felt safe towing it. I just want to thank all of you who helped me in reaching this decision by the advice I received here. I am satisfied that I could make this decision based on the knowledge about the tow ratings that I learned about in this Forum. It gave me the information that I needed, so I could in some degree talk knowledgably with my RV and Vehicle Dealership about the weight issues I had to work with. Without the Forum, I would have never known about going to a scale to actually weigh my vehicle. I know now, that I am not willing to take the risk in towing a RV that could compromise my tow vehicle based on overloaded weight issues. Lastly, I would like to give the Dealership that I was working with a “BIG THUMBS UP”. Their name is Northern RV and they are located in Quinnesec, MI. I dealt with both Paul and Eli (the Manager) and they were excellent to work with. I would highly recommend their Dealership to any one considering a purchase of a Recreation Vehicle. If I end up purchasing a new Jayco product, they would definitely be the Dealership I will work with. Thanks again!!
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Old 10-05-2011, 10:55 AM   #48
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snip........Their name is Northern RV and they are located in Quinnesec, MI. I dealt with both Paul and Eli (the Manager) and they were excellent to work with......snip
Yep, I know the area your referring to. Last summer I camped at Bewabic State Park (beautiful CG) which is located a little north-west of Quinnesec..., and I'm tentatively planning another trip to the UP next summer, so I will keep Northern RV in mind "just in case".

Thanks again for the feedback.

Bob

ps: Smitty, hope to see further postings from you because the brand sticker on what one tows is a moot point, camping is camping!
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Old 10-05-2011, 06:44 PM   #49
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Smitty,
I`m glad you could get the info here necessary to make an informed, safe and comfortable decision. That is the real purpose of this forum, along with a little innocent horseplay and entertainment! Good luck with whatever you choose and if its not a Jayco you can still hang with us! Others do.
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Old 10-07-2011, 07:35 AM   #50
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Thanks Guys. Definately keeping what I've got for now. Recieved my deposit back from the Dealership in yesterday's mail. Iwould like to keep searching around in this forum. I'm going to take a look at the camping sections and see what's going on. Again thanks for all your help. I really believe this turned out how it was suppose to.
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