towing capacity - how close to the max?

[jbagnall]

I purchased a 2018 19H before purchasing the tow vehicle. The 19H is about 4,950 lbs at full capacity. I have no idea if I'll put enough junk in there to get the camper at the full capacity weight. Most "regular size" SUVs have a towing capacity of 5,000 lbs.

If I got a "regular size" SUV am I cutting it too close? Stepping up to the larger SUVs obviously cost more and are bigger than I need them to be (we're a family of 4).

How much of the TV capacity should you actually tow? Should you leave some room? How much room?

This might have already been discussed before, so if so, please just point me to the previous thread.

Thanks in advance.

[DocBrown]

I've towed close to capacity with 2 setups over the years. It works, setup properly it's safe. But in the long run you will be unhappy with the towing experience. You'll be buying a bigger vehicle in less than 2 years. Especially with growing kids.

Have you considered a full size 1500/150 series crew cab truck? More capacity, better towing experience, less expensive than the large SUVs. We had 3 Suburbans over the years, a Chevy Trailblazer, and a GMC Safari van. The Sierra in my signature is our first PU truck. I now wonder why we didn't go this route years ago.

[GL243]

That sounds pretty tight for just the towing capacity part of this somewhat complicated issue, and I'll defer to other more experienced and knowledgeable folks here, but what you'll undoubtedly need to consider and run the numbers on is your tow vehicle's cargo capacity. E.g., if your SUV only has a thousand pounds of cargo weight carrying capacity before you exceed your Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR), both of which should be available on a sticker on the inside door jam of your SUV, then you can find yourself going over that fairly easily. If you put a 4 people in the SUV at, say, 150 lbs each fully clothed, fed, and otherwise adorned, then you'd have only 400 lbs left for the hitch, any luggage or other stuff you want to carry in the SUV, and "tongue weight" of the trailer, which has to be included in your "cargo" weight load. You might find you're OK with the numbers you end up with, or you might also find you can't keep under the GVWR for the tow vehicle while pulling the trailer with all of the people and stuff you want to carry in the SUV. A weight distribution hitch can easily use up 80 or 100 pounds of cargo capacity all by itself. A lot of trailers get sold by salespersons based only on "towing capacity" numbers, when cargo capacity of the tow vehicle is really a more important limiting factor. Good luck with all of it, and I hope the numbers come out OK for you.

[jbagnall]

Thanks for the quick replies! Yeah, I think I'm just going to go bigger and call it a day. Whether it be a truck or a larger SUV.

[norty1]

I have seen 1/2 ton crew cab pickups with a paint matched bed cover and you could not tell the difference outside from a SUV.

[bankr63]

Follow @GL243's advice about checking the cargo weight carefully.

I was checking out new TV's at the last auto show here last year. Was shocked that Ford's largest SUV only had a CCC of 900ish pounds according to the door sticker. If you put average sized adults in all 7 seats you would be over the weight limit.

My Traverse had a 1600 lb CCC which is about right for an 8 passenger SUV. It towed our 19H well but you did really have to watch the weight distribution with kids and a full load.

You need to be very careful when purchasing.

And don't think that a pickup will be that much better. The payload capacity on my Titan is actually a little less that my Traverse was, so we will still be watching our weights carefully and stopping by the CAT scales once or twice a year to check our math. MOST 1/2 ton PU's that roll off the assembly line have limited CCC unless they have suspension upgrades ("max tow" packages or similar).

[GL243]

Just as an example, when I was shopping for a new Ford F150 in 2017, I ended up needing to make sure I had the higher payload capacity (not "max payload", which is only available in a 2wd supercab model as I understand it, and is exceedingly rare to even find at a dealership), that got the truck to a GVWR of 7000 lbs. This left me with a CCC of about 1776 lbs on the door sticker, which has meant I've had to do some serious loading management to avoid going over the 7000 GVWR when towing a TT with a GVWR at 7500 lbs, but with which I do not expect to ever go over 7000 lbs when loaded (the trailer loaded weight). My numbers show that my total combined weight for the TT and TV should, worst case, still be under the GCVWR (Gross Combination Vehicle Weight Rating) allowable for my truck/trailer combination, but I will be within about 80 lbs of reaching the 7000 lb GVWR rating for my truck. So, if I only went by "towing capacity" and the GCVWR figures, I could think I'm OK when I've overloaded the tow vehicle by as much as 2000 lbs.! Was a big AHA moment for me, and, thankfully, I ran these numbers and "what-ifs" prior to buying the truck and trailer. Anyway, hope this helps.

[RogerR]

As your vehicle ages, basically the day it leaves the factory, it's capabilities start to change. Tires, brakes, transmission, engine, all parts everywhere do not get stronger.

Based on that I would never tow or haul over 80% of the "factory recommended" amounts. It just makes sense to have some leeway.

[RAurand]

Originally Posted by norty1

I have seen 1/2 ton crew cab pickups with a paint matched bed cover and you could not tell the difference outside from a SUV.

EXECPT..... The SUV can carry 7 -8 people.... the 1/2 ton can not.

[RedHorse1]

Our first TT (X23B) tipped in about 4500#, the TV had a 9000# max tow number IIRC. The shock was we were about 200# below the Rear GAWR. With a 2nd couple in the rear seat we’d be over on the rear axle.
My opinion is the max tow is a worthless number, I go by the axle ratings. The door sticker has those numbers and a CAT Scale will give you the actual weights.
If your new TT has aGVWR of 4950 you can expect a tongue weight around 742# (15%).
What TV’s are you thinking? Perhaps one of the JOF members has a similar vehicle and can provide some weights. Another suggestion is when taking a test drive include a trip across the scales to see how much payload the rear axle has.

[rodro123]

Towing capacity is how much the truck can pull, while payload capacity is how much it can carry. These can depend on such factors as the truck’s configuration, its chassis, its engine and transmission, its rear axle ratio, and its weight, and there can be considerable range over a truck’s full lineup. Also note that this is a general explanation of capacity overall, and the type of trailer and hitch you use can affect how much you should be towing with your own vehicle.)

There are several truck ratings that help determine how much should be towed or hauled. The Gross Vehicle Weight Rating, or GVWR, is the total the truck can safely weigh when it’s loaded. That includes the curb weight – the truck with nothing in it – plus whatever goes in, including passengers and cargo, fuel weight. It also includes tongue weight, which isn’t the weight of the trailer itself, but the downward force it exerts on the trailer hitch ball. If you’re towing a fifth-wheel or gooseneck trailer, the downward force it puts on the truck bed is called the king pin weight.

Manufacturers also specify a Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR), which is the maximum of the truck and everything in it, plus the trailer and the weight of whatever’s on it. These maximum ratings are determined by the manufacturer to work safely within the truck’s ability. If it’s loaded beyond that weight, things can go wrong, and it can affect the brakes, suspension, transmission, and tires.

To get the payload capacity, the automaker takes the GVWR and subtracts the truck’s curb weight, plus a little extra to account for occupants and other expected add-ons. If the truck’s GVWR is 6,200 lbs (towing and payload are almost always expressed in pounds, not kilograms), and the truck and occupants are estimated to weigh 4,850 lbs, the truck’s payload is 1,350 lbs. Likewise, towing capacity is calculated by subtracting the truck and occupant weight from the GCWR.

How much you put in the truck or trailer will likely change each time you load it, but GVWR and GCWR don’t vary. If you’re loaded to the max, but a couple of 200-lb friends need a lift, you’re going to have to drop 400 lbs of cargo to stay within the limit.

[DocBrown]

Originally Posted by bankr63

My Traverse had a 1600 lb CCC which is about right for an 8 passenger SUV. It towed our 19H well but you did really have to watch the weight distribution with kids and a full load.

You need to be very careful when purchasing.

And don't think that a pickup will be that much better. The payload capacity on my Titan is actually a little less that my Traverse was, so we will still be watching our weights carefully and stopping by the CAT scales once or twice a year to check our math. MOST 1/2 ton PU's that roll off the assembly line have limited CCC unless they have suspension upgrades ("max tow" packages or similar).

Comparing the CCC of a full size truck to an SUV is not apples to apples. A full size truck actually has less payload the higher the trim level. Ours is a middle trim level and has a 1665# payload. It has a tow package, but not the "max" tow package. Where the limit of an SUV is, is in the softer suspension. Many of the newer 1500/150 series trucks have close to 2000# payloads. Some are over.

I've looked at the Nissan trucks. Most of the ones I looked at had 1000-1300# payloads. Disappointing to say the least.

Originally Posted by RAurand

EXECPT..... The SUV can carry 7 -8 people.... the 1/2 ton can not.

The OP has a family of 4.

[RedHorse1]

Originally Posted by jbagnall

Thanks for the quick replies! Yeah, I think I'm just going to go bigger and call it a day. Whether it be a truck or a larger SUV.

“Gee, I wish I’d bought a smaller truck”, said no one, ever.

[jbagnall]

Very interesting stuff. Thank you all for your comments. The good news is I have a couple of months to figure it out, and this advice will come in quite handy!

[bono]

OP, I will absolutely encourage you to consider SUV. Depending on which brand you would go with, SUV should have better suspension, better brakes, lower center of gravity, shorter rear overhang than any truck on the market. All of this matters for towing. I know that idea of towing with anything other than truck does not fly on this forum, therefore, you need to do your research. Do not give up. Check my post

https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f...-x5-53561.html

I logged over 14k towing miles with BMW X5 and 28DSBH. The towing experience is so good that I delayed changing the car to a newer model. I was thinking about MB GLS, but after talking to Andy Thomson (google him and visit his website) I passed. He is in the business for many years, has trucks, sedans and SUVs (including MB GL) in the fleet. Heard from him that Porsche Cayenne and BMW X5 are the best tow vehicles on the market (provided that you do not have 5th wheel or 10k lbs trailer ). I am 100% sure that if you go with any German SUV, towing your trailer would be piece of cake.

Check also airstream forum. There are many more people towing large trailer with SUV. In particular, listen to people who have experience with both, trucks and SUV.

Here you have link to a recent post of guy who has Porsche Cayenne and 3500 GMC Duramax towing 28' AS.

Tongue weight and vehicle limits - Page 2 - Airstream Forums

[Riverman]

Sorry, but no one will ever convince me to sell my 2500 diesel truck to buy an suv.

[Demiles]

Every TV represents compromises for each individuals situation. I’ll stay with a TV that can tow and still meet FMVSS’s rather than follow Andy Thompson’s formula.

[Demiles]

Every TV represents compromises for each individuals situation. I’ll stay with a TV that can tow and still meet FMVSS’s rather than follow Andy Thompson’s formula.

[Midnightmoon]

I have personally spoken with Andy Thompson concerning a question with my Sprinter 2500 van. I'm not a customer of his, but he responded to my inquiry immediately and really took the time to research and answer my question thoroughly. Top notch and knowledgeable individual.

[bono]

SUV formula is not for everyone. People are towing different trailers, traveling light or taking all house to the campground. Each situation, even when discussing the same trailer, would be different.

However, I would not delete SUV from the list of potential tow vehicles, in particular, for such mid size trailer as mentioned by OP.