Volvo xc90 and X23b - Opinions?

[ski2moro]

Newbie here. New to the forum and a never-ever camper who wants to get out in the great outdoors for the first time.

I went to the local Jayco dealer today and came away more confused than ever. The salesman was a slick as they come and he pegged my BS meter. I just don’t trust him at all.

I have a Volvo xc90, AWD, 3.2 V6 with a published tow capacity of 5000 lbs. I am looking at a 2013 Jayco X23b. At 3925 unloaded weight, 410 hitch weight and 4950 GVWR, “No problem, no problem, no problem. This TT is made for vans and SUVs,” he says. Then, he said, “Your car can tow 5000# and that has nothing to do with what is loaded in your car.”

In answer to my questions, he claims that there is no problem with my car towing this trailer. He recommends a weight distribution hitch and electric brakes. He won’t install the wiring for the electric brakes because “foreign cars are hard to work on so you should take it to your dealer.” “Sign now because I only have one left at this price.” I walked off to ‘think about it.’

I come to you experts for advice. Either not a lot of people are towing with a Volvo XC90 or few are posting about it – I just cannot find any concrete information pro or con.

Would you let your daughter tow a Jayco X23b with my car like mine?

[Jagiven]

Am not familiar with your Volvo, but I would also question your Volvo’s ability too. I would recommend calling Volvo with your VIN number and ask about your particular towing ability.

[Flyrotor]

No way can you safely pull that trailer with your Volvo, and run from that salesman, he should never offer another word of advice to anyone

[mcfarmall]

I'd say your a bit undersized in the tow vehicle department.

[Threebutchers]

Originally Posted by Jagiven

I would recommend calling Volvo with your VIN number and ask about your particular towing ability.

Been there - done that more than once with Volvo....when you call (or e-mail) corporate customer service they copy / paste owners manual pages as the official reply. No more no less.

Counting TV payload or not....that's too much TT. Providing 5000# is the correct towing capacity (probably is with AWD) I would be looking at TT under 3,200#

[ski2moro]

1. Is the problem the pulling or the stopping?

2. If I wanted to get a new TV for the x23b, what weight tow capacity should I be looking for?

Just to throw another question out there...I was in Europe last year and was astounded at the number of smaller cars pulling big trailers through the Alps. I saw Passat station wagons and small Mercedes SUVs pulling 30' TTs. My Volvo is a HUGE car by European standards. What is the difference? On the Volvo Deutschland website, the Volvo's towing capability is the same - 5000#.

There was not a single truck in the campground there, only small cars. Why can the Europeans tow so much more? It can't be that most of the cars are diesel - the weight is virtually the same. I have been to the European "Caravan" or "Wohnwagen" websites and I have seen the TT weights. I’m baffled.

[campdds]

Long time reader on this forum, but a newbie as well with a 2010 Volvo XC90 3.2. We have a x17z and are looking to upgrade to a x213. Very close to weight as ski's x23b he is looking at. Just towed the 17z 150 miles each way a weekend ago. While it wasn't a rocketship, it managed adequately. Temp guage never moved at all and it tended to stay in 5th gear even at 70 mph. We have a weight distribution hitch, which was a necessity. It never felt squirrelly either. Am interested to hear if you buy the trailer and how the Volvo does with it. Braking was ok as well, just needed to plan out stops ahead of time and keep a safe distance.

Matt

[Threebutchers]

1) yes and yes

2) (If my daughter were driving it as you said) I would suggest TV towing capacity of 6000# + for a TT with a dry weight up to 4K. The dry weight (let's use 4,000# for an example) is less than the shipping weight, which is less than the loaded weight, which doesn't include hitch, cargo, and occupants we load our TT and TV down with to go camping. Add all that up and very quickly you have a sum of 5,000-5,500# to compare against that "Curb Weight / Towing Capacity" calculation of your TV manufacturer....and BTW - that TT dry tongue weight of 410# has now shot up to 500-600# +

"Capacity" is term that isn't grasped well when it comes to towing.

ca·pac·i·ty....1. The ability to receive, hold, or absorb. 2. The maximum amount that can be contained: (a trunk filled to capacity) 3. Ability to perform or produce; capability.

Instead...we would treat towing capacity like a suggestion, or a target.....something we can safely go up to - but not over. Surely... specified towing capacity is just lawyer talk and the vehicle was engineered with plenty of wiggle room.....

Bottom line....I think the X23b is going over the manufacturers towing capacity (under fully loaded conditions) and would DEFINITELY NOT let my daughter drive it. If you want the confidence and power to pull hills, not get pushed around on the road, and stop assured...I suggest staying below "capacity".... Even then, keep fully aware of your weights (tongue, TT, CGVW)

Last thought......considering the laws of physics - European trailers must be engineered lighter than North American designs. SUV and Pick-up trucks are born from North American culture. We build heavy TT because we can....

[Seann45]

North America and esp the USA have more liability laws than they have in Europe which is why they tow over there with small cars..
On average if a salesman's lips are moving he is lying. Tow ratings include a 150 lb driver anything more in the vehicle SUBTRACTS from the max tow rating.. So if you go back to this dealership ask for a different salesman as you dont like people who bald face lie to you...

[Threebutchers]

Originally Posted by ski2moro

Just to throw another question out there...I was in Europe last year and was astounded at the number of smaller cars pulling big trailers through the Alps. I saw Passat station wagons and small Mercedes SUVs pulling 30' TTs. My Volvo is a HUGE car by European standards. What is the difference? On the Volvo Deutschland website, the Volvo's towing capability is the same - 5000#.

There was not a single truck in the campground there, only small cars. Why can the Europeans tow so much more? It can't be that most of the cars are diesel - the weight is virtually the same. I have been to the European "Caravan" or "Wohnwagen" websites and I have seen the TT weights. I’m baffled.

If my conversions are correct.....here is your answer

Following is a link to a brand new very stylish and well equipped Scando TT....if my conversions are correct...this a 25' TT that weighs @ 3,000#

http://www.rvnetlinx.com/dba/dba.php?id=7786&cat=nonusa

[Flyrotor]

Originally Posted by ski2moro

1. Is the problem the pulling or the stopping?

2. If I wanted to get a new TV for the x23b, what weight tow capacity should I be looking for?

Just to throw another question out there...I was in Europe last year and was astounded at the number of smaller cars pulling big trailers through the Alps. I saw Passat station wagons and small Mercedes SUVs pulling 30' TTs. My Volvo is a HUGE car by European standards. What is the difference? On the Volvo Deutschland website, the Volvo's towing capability is the same - 5000#.

There was not a single truck in the campground there, only small cars. Why can the Europeans tow so much more? It can't be that most of the cars are diesel - the weight is virtually the same. I have been to the European "Caravan" or "Wohnwagen" websites and I have seen the TT weights. I’m baffled.

Drunk drivers over the legal limit make it home more often than not, but it doesn't make it right, smart, or safe. So many of these new cars are built with the unibody frames and the just don't compare to the stability offered with with a truck chassis, regardless of what the manufacturer advertises or posts in the owners manual.

For longevity of your vehicle life, including engine, transmission, suspensions, and brakes, if you plan to tow, then step up and get a vehicle that is safely capable of doing the job.

[campdds]

Originally Posted by Threebutchers

If my conversions are correct.....here is your answer

Following is a link to a brand new very stylish and well equipped Scando TT....if my conversions are correct...this a 25' TT that weighs @ 3,000#

http://www.rvnetlinx.com/dba/dba.php?id=7786&cat=nonusa

Attachment 9274

I am finding weights of 1700kg or 3700+ pounds. Similar to the ones here in the US...

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by ski2moro

snip....... I have a Volvo xc90, AWD, 3.2 V6 with a published tow capacity of 5000 lbs. I am looking at a 2013 Jayco X23b. At 3925 unloaded weight, 410 hitch weight and 4950 GVWR,....snip

Welcome to JOF

Just a little clarification on published Tow Ratings.., they don't reflect a vehicle's actual Tow Rating. In reality you would have to subtract the sum total weights of the Volvo's options, passengers, cargo, etc., from the 5,000lbs......, the remaining weight would be more reflective of the actual weight (approximately). The following JOF thread will provide a little more insight on published Tow Ratings versus Actual: http://www.jaycoowners.com/showthrea...uot-Tow-Rating

Check your owners manual "Towing Section" for any trailer tongue weight limitations, and/or WDH (Weight Distribution Hitch) restrictions. No RV salesperson will advise you of any of your vehicles towing limitaions/restrictions..... that's up to us (customer) to know. Also, always think in terms of "loaded weights", sales folks tend to think in terms of unloaded and dry weights.

The actual Ship Weight of the X23B will be approximately 4,200lbs (brother in-law had one), which I'm confident will be close to your XC90's actual tow rating. IMO the X23B is the wrong choice for the Volvo XC90.

Bob

[Threebutchers]

Originally Posted by campdds

I am finding weights of 1700kg or 3700+ pounds. Similar to the ones here in the US...

Wrong link.....I see (7) models from 22'-25' ...from 2,755# - 3,300#

[mitechie]

I've got a new x23b and I'm pulling it with a VW Touareg TDI. I can tell you that when it's loaded up with bikes in the trailer and no water the tongue weight is around 650lbs. The dry weight, is really dry. No propane, no battery, nadda. I'm pulling a nearly 6000lb trailer with a vehicle with a stated 7700lbs of capacity. The tongue weight does count towards the vehicle cargo capacity as well.

So, all that out of the way, I feel like I've got about as small a vehicle as I can tow the x23b with safely. It pulls it up hills nicely, I've got a nice 8speed tranny on 3.0L of diesel and I'd really not want to go in that volvo. You've got to get past the low numbers listed on the website and into the real-world numbers that you'll actually put the vehicle under.

Now as for Europe, as an owner of a European made vehicle I can tell you that towing is done differently there. There is only one ball size, the trailers are made to balance the weight more and their setup is meant to only put 200-400lbs on the tongue. They don't use WD setups and they don't put a 15% of the trailer weight on the tongue. You're seeing vehicles do different work than in the US. They're also built differently, there's a lot more diesels out there and you don't know what they've done for keeping things cool as well.

I had to have my hitch reinforced to work well for my setup using the x23b and boy did it make a big difference once I got things reinforced and the WD/anti-sway system setup. Just my .02 as someone that just finished going through the TV + trailer buying research for the same trailer you're looking at.

Since the max weight of the x23b is around 6000lbs I'd be looking for something that can tow a bit over that. A Jeep Grand Cherokee, 1/2 ton truck, or something along those lines.

[G Bush]

Besides all the weight stuff, your Volvo will be getting a new transmission with every other oil change. It is a weak point on those cars.