WDH sizing

[JCA1980]

Hi Folks,

I'll try and keep this a brief as I can.

We are in the process of taking receipt of our 2021 Jay Flight SLX 8 224BHW from our dealer and included in the sale was the supply and install of a WDH.


I have been reading through the manuals provided with the trailer and the included WD hitch.

The sticker on the WD hitch indicates:

• 6000lbs gross trailer WT
• 600lbs MAX tongue weight. (<-- this is my concern)

Weight stats for the travel trailer are the following:

• GVWR: 6000 Lbs.
• Factory dry weight: 4508 Lbs
• Cargo Capacity: 1492 Lbs.
• less full fresh water tank: 348 Lbs
• less full hot water tank: 49 Lbs.
• leaving 1095 for our stuff max.

My best estimate is that our trailer's average travel weight will be about 5500lbs; but we should be prepared and equipped to tow up to the trailers GVRW of 6000lbs.

If the acceptable tongue weight for safe towing is between 10% and 15% then our anticipated average tongue weight due to the trailer alone will be between 550lbs and 825lbs

Maximally it would be between 600lbs and 900lbs if the trailer was at capacity (again, due to the trailer alone).

My understanding is that one must also include in the tongue weight calculation any bed weight behind the rear axle. Our tow vehicle is an F-150 with a 5.5ft box, 2/3 of the box overhangs the rear axle.

I asked the dealer if they can confirm how they sized the WDH for our application and their response was:

"This truly is much simpler than your calculations make it out to be. The Equalization Hitches are manufactured in 2000 lb increments. Simply put 8000 lbs is too large for you trailer and will provide too much down force on the tongue and is unnecessary. On the other end of the scale, 4000 lbs is too light hence the calculation of 6000"

The GWVR seems ok. It's the tongue weight that has me concerned.

Should it?

[Rustic Eagle]

JCA1980,

Welcome to JOF

Originally Posted by JCA1980

....snip[*]600lbs MAX tongue weight. (<-- this is my concern).......snip

I agree.

In reality the majority of loaded TT's that cross a CAT scale have a loaded tongue weight in the 13% to 15% range of the scaled gross weight. The recommended 13% to 15% will also provide enhanced TV handling in less than ideal towing conditions (ie; sudden maneuver, cross winds, poor road conditions, etc.).., especially with a 27ft TT.

The 224BHW (west region version) "published" UVW is 4,350lbs...., and I assume your stated factory UVW at 4,508lb is based on the as-shipped 'yellow sticker' weight data. I found on two web site RV dealership 'as-shipped' yellow sticker UVW's at 4,780lbs for the 224BHW.

Your hypothetical loaded 224BHW: (UVW 4,508lbs) + (Fresh tank/HW 397lbs) + (Cargo 500lbs) + (dealer misc, battery 50lbs) = 5,455lbs gross weight = 709lbs to 818lbs (13% to 15%) loaded tongue weight range.

I size a WDH to handle the worst case scenario, that being the WDH rating should be able to accommodate a TT loaded to its GVWR. The 224BHW has a GVWR of 6,000lbs....., thus loaded at 6,000lbs = 780lbs to 900lbs (13% to 15%) loaded tongue weight range.

IMO a WDH rated at 1,000lbs would be ideal for the 224BHW, and when "properly adjusted" under loaded TV/TT conditions the WDH will not be over-kill for a lower range 224BHW loaded tongue weights. A WDH rated at 800lbs would work, but then one's loading habits must not exceed the lower rated WDH's tongue weight limit.

Just food for thought......

Bob

[Marcm157]

I agree 100% with Bob's assessment. In this case more Hitch is better than too little...

[Rbailey]

Hey jca just wondering how you made out

I just took possession of my 2021 jayco 224bh and my dealer also only gave me a husky centerline ts rated for 400-600 tongue weight I never realized until I took it down the highway and it did not feel good at all, and that was with only full propane tanks and a battery completely empty inside.


I didn't have time to check measurements and see how it was transferring the weight to the truck but I think maybe they sold me a 'under' rated wdh.

[SkyBound]

Dealerships are notorious for this practice. I'm assuming they just look at the brochure tongue weights and pick a hitch that's closest to that, and we all know real world tongue weights are always in excess of that figure. Dealerships are also notorious for not setting up a hitch properly. If you really want to have it done right, educate yourself with online resources such as this site, buy a hitch that's appropriate for your needs, and set it up yourself using proper methods. Hitting the scales after the process is always a good idea to verify.

[Camper_bob]

I think dealers only look at one side of the rating for a WDH. For example; GVWR of trailer = 6,000, so a WDH rated to 600/6000 will be fine.

In reality, they need to spec the OTHER SIDE of the WDH rating - the bars. When choosing a WDH, you should take 15% of the GVWR of the trailer and use that to choose the hitch that includes the BARS that will put your number below the max rating.

If your tongue weight will be between 800-900 lbs, you should be using a 1,000/10,000 hitch.

The other consideration here is that manufacturers don't want you constantly towing with your bars maxed out. Most of them will indicate that your tongue weight should be somewhere below the max spec, but above the next lower rated bars. So, in the above example, if you're at 800 lbs tongue weight, you should be using a 1,000/10,000 hitch; the 800/8,000 level would be inadequate and at max all the time.

The tension on the bars is adjustable for that very reason, so you can "dial it in" to what you need.

Unless you spec a 1,200/12,000 lb hitch on a 5,000 lb trailer, you're not going to have a "harsh ride" (and maybe not even then). And besides, the ride quality should not be a consideration when choosing a properly rated hitch.

I really wish dealers would pay closer attention to this. The hitch is a critical component to a trailer, and dealers just throw something on. And installation is almost always wrong. Granted, they can't get it dialed in "unloaded", but more times than not, they don't even try for a proper installation at all...

[Finally Able]

I'm going through this issue right now, except I took delivery last August and had no inkling that dealers routinely install undersized WDHs -- it being our first TT, we took it for granted we'd be sold the right size hitch. How naive! I'm now in the process of trying to locate the next size up (11000/1150), and when I get them I will swap out the bars (I can't buy just the bars according to Reese) and adjust as best I can. I'll then sell the new head, shank, brackets and the lighter bars.

But this is unnecessary and costly. Why can't manufacturers provide recommended hitch weight ratings based on the GVWR and projected tongue weight ranges of each model? They tell us the recommended tire pressures and max cargo capacity. Maybe there's a good reason, I dunno.

[jimmybrine]

I'm looking at this model and wonder if you were ever able to determine your actual hitch weight - at the scales or with a Sherline, etc. It's a really important number, just like you said. Thanks!

[jimmybrine]

It occurs to me that the manufacturers know that posting the actual hitch weights would disqualify so many of their models from the "half-ton towable" category. For the model in question, the 224bh, my 1/2 ton could tow THREE of them, but the hitch weight of just ONE under real-world loaded conditions maxes me out on my 7,000lb payload...

[Finally Able]

I did the 3 weighings at a CAT scale (actually did 3 separate times) to determine all relevant weights with both the tow vehicle and trailer loaded as for camping (tow vehicle, tow vehicle + trailer with sway bars engaged, then TV + trailer with bars disengaged.) From that, simple arithmetic will tell you the loaded weight of tow vehicle, trailer, and the tongue weight (which is variable to some degree by how it's loaded -- I found the tongue weight was always higher than I wanted, about 1,100+ lbs, so I finally started moving most packed weight either over the axles or to the rear. This made a significant difference in handling, and that's how I've loaded it since.) By the way, I generally load the trailer right up to the 7500 lb max. It does well.

If you haven't bought the WDH yet, I'd be sure to upsize it, which is what I did after my previous post. I went with the same Reese WDH, but rated at 11000/1150 lbs. I've had no further problems with it. I also air up the rear tires on my Chevy 1500 to just below the max inflation shown on the sidewalls before towing (I bring them up to about 48 lbs), and de-air back to 35 psi once unhitched. This stiffens the sidewalls to make the tires a bit less squishy.

You can find the simple instructions to use a CAT scale higher up in this thread. Also, I found a lot of very helpful suggestions from folks on this thread, especially from Rustic Eagle, so thanks again, Bob, as well as to others. You know who you are!

(Sidenote: although my wife and I really like the SLX 287BHS, we are trading it in for a Jayco Precept, which is being built as I write this. We decided that a gas motor home will fit our travel plans better.)

[16WhiteColly]

When I was looking into a WD Hitch, I was told that going much over the rating of the trailer, you risk extra stress on the trailer frame that can cause frame cracking. I went with a rating only 1,000 over my max. trailer weight.

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by jimmybrine

I'm looking at this model and wonder if you were ever able to determine your actual hitch weight - at the scales or with a Sherline, etc. It's a really important number, just like you said. Thanks!

Check the "Scaled TT Loaded Tongue Weight" listings in the following JOF thread, may have the model in question:

https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f...t-57188-5.html

Bob

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by 16WhiteColly

When I was looking into a WD Hitch, I was told that going much over the rating of the trailer, you risk extra stress on the trailer frame that can cause frame cracking. I went with a rating only 1,000 over my max. trailer weight.

It's not so much a WDH's specified GTW (Gross Trailer Weight) rating exceeding the TT's GVWR that's the issue..., but rather when a WDH's specified "TW" (Tongue Weight) rating greatly exceeds a TT's targeted or worst case (based on TT GVWR) loaded tongue weight.

A WDH's specified "TW" rating corresponds directly to the 'spring bar rating/sizing' which is the main component when engaged creates the leveraging forces between the TV/TT frames. A WDH's "TW" rating can exceed (within reason) a TT's actual loaded tongue weight as long as it is properly adjusted with the lower loaded tongue weight.

Ideally the selected WDH's "TW" rating should be able to support a TT's maximum loaded tongue weight of 15% of the TT's GVWR (worst case scenario).

On some smaller, and/or "Lite Weight" TT's one may find a sticker located on the A-frame specifying the maximum WDH "TW" rating allowed.

Bob