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Old 02-26-2013, 06:40 AM   #21
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Just thought I would take the WDH discussion up a notch, if it's ok with the OP "OnTheGo".....,
It’s not only ok, it’s welcomed. Your issue is a logical “next step”.

I’m going to try and get a copy of SAE J2807, which might be the catalyst for a "50% rise return". It’s available on SAE’s site, but I’m not willing to pay for it. I’ll also look into Ford’s available technical information.

It might be the industry's way of saying if a certain percentage of the towing population won't apply WD correctly, this is what we'll try to keep them from creating an unsafe situation.

A manufacturer’s statement: “... the front axle weight after weight distribution should not exceed the original weight of the front axle without a trailer.” (Of course that’s one of the issues we just went through.) I think SAE J2807 will introduce most of us to FALR. If you comply with FALR guidelines, you won’t create an unsafe steering / handling situation.

I don’t know if this is correct (it's close), but here comes the short version pertaining to FALR:

Weight on front axle with no trailer = a FALR number of 100

Weight after coupling trailer without WD = a FALR number of 0

After WD the desired weight of the TV’s steer axle would be a return to 100.

An FALR of 50 – 100 is acceptable.

Less than 50 is considered to be insufficient.

More than 100 is considered unacceptable. (Some say dangerous.)

How this translates to wheel-well measurements: Your final front reading should be equal to the starting reading. If not, it's better to be a little higher, never lower.

... here we go again.
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Old 02-26-2013, 07:13 AM   #22
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OnTheGo,

The main reason I brought up the "50%" subject at this time is that it pertains to the basic objective of the WDH adjustment process. The thread to-date has provided a basic understanding of the WDH and it's association to TV/TT weights, and the role of the TV's front suspension in the proper function/adjustment of the WDH.

I also thought by mentioning, and/or discussing the recent Ford & GM "50%" WDH adjustment recommendation at this point in the thread may minimize some confusion in the future as folks reference their TV owners manual on the subject of using a WDH.

It's not my intent to over complicate the subject, but rather maintain the informative theme you have established within the thread.

Bob
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Old 02-26-2013, 07:36 AM   #23
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Hi Bob,

just checked the owners manual for the Ram 1500, they briefly discuss the operation behind the Weight-Distribution Hitch, examples of how the TV/TT combination should look, but go on to say that you should follow the procedures of the WDH manufacturer.


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OnTheGo,

The main reason I brought up the "50%" subject at this time is that it pertains to the basic objective of the WDH adjustment process. The thread to-date has provided a basic understanding of the WDH and it's association to TV/TT weights, and the role of the TV's front suspension in the proper function/adjustment of the WDH.

I also thought by mentioning, and/or discussing the recent Ford & GM "50%" WDH adjustment recommendation at this point in the thread may minimize some confusion in the future as folks reference their TV owners manual on the subject of using a WDH.

It's not my intent to over complicate the subject, but rather maintain the informative theme you have established within the thread.

Bob
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:06 AM   #24
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I don't know hoe to use 'snip' so I'll just copy and paste.

"It might be the industry's way of saying if a certain percentage of the towing population won't apply WD correctly, this is what we'll try to keep them from creating an unsafe situation.

A manufacturer’s statement: “... the front axle weight after weight distribution should not exceed the original weight of the front axle without a trailer.” (Of course that’s one of the issues we just went through.) I think SAE J2807 will introduce most of us to FALR. If you comply with FALR guidelines, you won’t create an unsafe steering / handling situation."

"How this translates to wheel-well measurements: Your final front reading should be equal to the starting reading. If not, it's better to be a little higher, never lower."


I would think that is a logical assumption and approach by the manufacturuers to help people avoid setting up WDH incorrectly.

Prior to the Internet, most people just relied on the RV dealer and the WDH literature to set up their rigs.

I've not had a loaded out rig and TT for at least 25 years. Back then, I relied on wheel well measurments and followed the literature that came with the WDH.

Never knew about a CAT scale and its availability to the public.

Since that time, I've only owned small popups and never got close to my TV limits.

Maybe we should do a poll to see how many people have used a CAT scale to verify their towing set-up.

Question: Have you ever verified your towing set-up using a CAT scale?

1. Yes - before my 1st trip with my rig

2. Yes - but only recentlty. Owned one or more rigs with WDH and set-up previously only using RV Dealer or WDH literature.

3. Yes - but only after having a serious problem and/or issue.

4. No - have never weighed my rig on a CAT scale. Always relied on RV Dealer and WDH literature. Never had a problem and/or issue related to improper set-up.

5. No - have never weighed my rig on a CAT scale. Always relied on RV Dealer and WDH literature. I have had a problem and/or issue related to improper set-up.

Best regards,
Doug
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:37 AM   #25
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Bob, I hear you. I said before I like taking a technical adventure, but I understand many people don't. They simply want arrive safely at their destination; nothing wrong with that.

If I get a better understanding than "necessary", I'm OK with that. And if I can present it simply to the forum without everyone having to go down the same road ...

I remember the dealer's rep standing back and eye-balling my hitch setup when I picked up the TT and giving it his approval.
This is not a slam on the dealer, they did a good job with prep - very thorough. But as far as the hitch is concerned, they were getting me home with an unloaded truck and trailer.

I think most dealer reps assume you know you need further adjustment before loading up and taking it out on the road. I didn't. On the other side of the hitch, I have a capable truck (F-150) for my trailer, but I didn't know Ford had a "Payload" option. I wish I had it now.

What I would like to learn and have available on the forum is:

If I want this trailer, how much truck do I need?

Or, if I have this truck, can I haul this trailer? ... safely

What WDH should I buy, and why?

Now that I have the right equipment, how do I set it up?

We can answer some of those things. Probably not all.

The bottom line for me is I don't want to be dependent on someone else for purchasing decisions.


Today, I have a more immediate need - my iPod shot craps. And I like some music in the garage while keeping busy.
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:42 AM   #26
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On The Go,
I always thought you could setup an Excel sheet getting the 80 for 20.

A format where you enter your data and you get a red, yellow, green result?

Each line could be related to what information you have.

If you don't have the information, you don't get a yellow/red/green response.

Just thinking out loud here.

Doug
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:52 AM   #27
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Good post, Doug. You posted yours while I was writing my last one. You basically described my situation as well. I didn't know there were CAT Scales.

I was telling an old friend about this thread. He was interested and somewhat concerned. I told him that it was not the problem that it might seem. I think the industry and dealers do have towing under control, but as individuals we can do better. Like all of us, I see many trailers being hauled without issues. Thousands of people get where they're going safely everyday. So, it's too soon to panic.
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:56 AM   #28
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I always thought you could setup an Excel sheet ...
That sound like a good idea, but I wouldn't know how.
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:55 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Raugustin View Post
snip......checked the owners manual for the Ram 1500, ....snip..... go on to say that you should follow the procedures of the WDH manufacturer.
Hi Ron,

.. and in all the WDH installation/adjustment instructions that I have seen they state to return the TV's front suspension back to it's "unhitched" height (or weight).

Bob
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:40 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by OnTheGo View Post
snip...... How this translates to wheel-well measurements: Your final front reading should be equal to the starting reading. If not, it's better to be a little higher, never lower ......snip
OnTheGo,

I would have to agree in respect to the TV's front wheel well height, because I know with most full size GM Trucks/SUV's front suspensions if your compress the TV's front suspension below it's unhitched height with the WDH you can bottom out the suspension stops resulting in one rough ride (been there, done it).

It will be interesting to find with the recent "50%" height specification how it relates to "weight return" with the same TV's front suspension, and hopefully it's a simple manufactures clarification that can be applied easily.

Look forward to hearing what you find ......, I plan to make some outside inquires as well.

Bob
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