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Old 02-26-2013, 03:40 PM   #31
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That's certainly an interesting change by GM, I also noticed the weight carrying hitch weight went up from 600 to 800lbs. Maybe its just me, but that seems like a LOT of weight on the hitch of a 1/2 ton pickup. Did they do something to the rear suspension? I know during my CAT scale weigh, the 620lbs dropped the back of my pickup a lot, I didn't really drive anywhere of course, but I would have to believe you would feel the steering loosen up. Also not sure about the 7000lb trailer before needing a WDH, at that point you'd be getting very close to the GCWR.

I'll be watching this thread to see what you find out.
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:51 PM   #32
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GM 2013 1500/2500/3500 WDH specifications in detail:

Ok, I found a "little" more detail on GM's 2013 1500 Series Silverado's "50%" WDH specifications, and the 2500/3500 series as well (Data source: http://www.chevrolet.com/owners/chevy-manuals.html)

Vehicle Series: 1500
Trailer Weight: Up to 7000 lbs
WDH Usage: Optional
Hitch Distribution: Refer to trailer manufacturer's recommendation

Vehicle Series: 1500
Trailer Weight: 7001 to 9900 lbs
WDH Usage: Required
Hitch Distribution: 50%

Vehicle Series: 1500
Trailer Weight: Over 9900 lbs
WDH Usage: Required
Hitch Distribution: 100%

Vehicle Series: 2500/3500
Trailer Weight: Up to 18000 lbs
WDH Usage: Optional
Hitch Distribution: Refer to trailer manufacturer's recommendation

The "Hitch Distribution" above is referring to the TV's front fender height (no mention of weight). I have no idea why GM would state "Refer to trailer manufacturer's recommendation", because I have never seen any RV Manufacture recommend any TV front suspension WDH distribution recommendations....., WDH Manufacturer's yes.

The GM 2013 Owners Manual still states 10% to 15% loaded tongue weight (of TT GVW).

Unless I'm missing something, IMO GM has created a lot of confusion in respect to their WDH recommendations

FORD 2013 150/250/350/450/550 WDH specifications in detail:

The following reflects the 2013 FORD 150/250/350/450/550 Series "50%" WDH specifications as stated in their owners manual (Data source: http://owner.ford.com/servlet/Conten...rd&model=F-150 & http://owner.ford.com/servlet/Conten...rd&model=F-250):

"When hooking-up a trailer using a weight-distributing hitch, always use
the following procedure:
1. Park the loaded vehicle (without the trailer) on a level surface.
2. Measure the height to the top of the vehicle front wheel opening on
the fender, this is H1.
3. Securely attach the loaded trailer to the vehicle without the
weight-distributing bars connected.
4. Measure the height to the top of the vehicle front wheel opening on
the fender a second time, this is H2.
5. Install and adjust the tension in the weight-distributing bars so that
the height of the vehicle’s front wheel opening on the fender is
approximately halfway between H1 and H2."

No mention of front suspension weight......, and the FORD 2013 Owners Manual still states 10% to 15% loaded tongue weight (of TT GVW).


I'm still digging.....

Bob
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:24 AM   #33
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Bob,

You are a step ahead of me with your post containing Fordís WDH instructions. That information is verbatim from my 2012 F-150 manual, page 276. I called Fordís information line and the rep referred my question (about 50% return) to technical and assigned it a case number. In the past, I have received good information using their system. It usually takes several days to get a response.

I found this link on a VW site: http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f6...n-34061-5.html Scroll down and there are some insights into SAE J2807.

I have an email out to my WDH manufacturer asking for insights. Their response will most likely be a recommendation to follow their instructions, and an unwillingness to speak for the TV manufacturers.

... some thoughts:

have there been front end / suspension changes (or anything else) to make a 50% return desirable

what, if anything, is wrong with a 100% return

TV customers must have asked builders to be able to place heavier loads on rear Ė are there tension / structure issues with a 100% return

anyone thatís ever driven loaded with roofing shingles, or any other overload, realizes the comfort level and safety of a 100% return
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:45 AM   #34
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amabee, you're making me remember the ease of hitching up the popup.

Quote:
Also not sure about the 7000lb trailer before needing a WDH
7000 lbs is two fully loaded x17Z's, and we only haul one.
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:39 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheGo View Post
snip..... I found this link on a VW site: http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f6...n-34061-5.html Scroll down and there are some insights into SAE J2807......snip
Interesting read to say the least.., and even after filtering out the VW Tauareg references within the information presented I got the impression that the author was still in the "interpretation" mode with the approved SAE J2807 standard.

For JOF reader clarification:

What is SAE J2807: An SAE trailer rating committee, with input form the American and Japanese Automotive Industries, was looking to create a "standard/practice" that all Automotive Manufactures would abide by in determining specific Weight Limits (ie; GCWR, Tow Ratings, etc.) thus making it easier to compare one vehicle to another (level playing field). The new practice identified as "SAE J2807" was approved in 2008 by American/Japanese Auto Manufactures, and was given an implementation date of model year 2013.

What is FALR: Front Axle Load Restoration

Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheGo View Post
snip..... are there tension / structure issues with a 100% return....snip
I have not seen any evidence to-date even implying that, and I would believe that there would be a strong warning statement within ones owner's manual as well. Heck, it may be even something as simple as the TV manufacturer's opening up the FALR tolerance range W/WO WDH in use (could this be playing into the marketing of the latest Tow Rating wars somehow ???).

I'm curious to hear what your Ford information line inquire produces.

Bob
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Old 02-27-2013, 02:31 PM   #36
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Our discussion thus far has been focused around the Ford and GM "50%" WDH front axle restoration statements.., but it appears that the SAE vehicle test results generated in support of the SAE J2807 standards may also be influencing WDH manufactures. WDH manufacture "Equal-i-zer" brand has revised it's installation instructions to read:

"Good adjustment:

You have most likely achieved good weight distribution adjustment if your
measurements show the following with the trailer coupled and the weight
distribution engaged:

1. From the coupled without weight distribution measurement, the front
wheel well measurement is at least halfway back to the original uncoupled
measurement. See line C on Front Wheel Well Measure Chart.

2. The rear wheel well measurement is somewhere between the uncoupled
height, and the coupled with no weight distribution height. It should
NEVER be higher than the uncoupled height"


Data source, page 18: http://www.equalizerhitch.com/pdf/eq...anual_0111.pdf

IMO it simply means that the TV's front suspension with the Equal-i-zer WDH should be restored to at LEAST 50% and a maximum (100%) of it's original unhitched height.

One obvious observation is the importance (which we have been aware of) of not dropping the TV's front suspension below it's unhitched height with the WDH, and the SAE J2807 standard supports this conclusion. IMO this would also rule out achieving "equal squat" with most TV's.

At a minimum this may provide a little more credibility that 100% front TV suspension restoration is still alive and well.

Now back to the 50% ........................

Bob

Additional source material: http://www.rv.net/FORUMS/index.cfm/f...4.cfm#26670734
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:30 PM   #37
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When the dust settles on this issue, it's going to take some real convincing numbers to sway me to accept that 100% is not the desired result, with 50% being the minimum.

I still haven't had any responses.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:05 PM   #38
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When we picked up our first TT, the JayFlight 22FB, the trailer dealer setup our WDH and I merrily went on my way. Later, I did measurements of the wheel well heights with and without the WDH. I discovered the setup was for about 50% return of the front wheel well height. When driving this combination at 60 mph highway speeds, the steering response was too "light" for my liking. I made adjustments to the WDH to bring the FALR to about 95% (a guesstimate). The CAT scale showed all but 50 lbs was returned to the front axle. This made the highway steering response much more to my liking. You will never convince me that 50% FALR is acceptable. Just my 2 cents worth.

I would add, don't worry about the rear wheel well height. Put all your attention on the front axle load with and without the WDH. That's what will determine your stability on the road. Shoot for near 100% FALR.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:15 PM   #39
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:27 PM   #40
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Quote:
This made the highway steering response much more to my liking. You will never convince me that 50% FALR is acceptable. Just my 2 cents worth.
I guess you, like the rest of us interested in this issue, will watch it play out.
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