What Europeans are towing with?

[bono]

https://youtu.be/GuuS3IHq4HI

[DocBrown]

What I find interesting about Europe is that they make far better balanced trailers, generally there seems to be no one using a WDH. Their trailers are also far lighter weight foot for foot than US trailers.

Some interesting reads below. They are just as concerned about weight as we are, even asking the age old question, "can I tow it?". In fact European laws are far more strict about weights when towing, the UK even having restrictions based on when a drivers license was obtained.

https://www.admiral.com/magazine/gui...-uk-and-abroad

https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/ca...ng-to-be-legal

[Camper_bob]

I agree with Chuck, the balance of those trailers is FAR different than what US manufacturers are doing. Notice the axle placement on those test trailers; virtually right in the middle. This creates MUCH less tongue weight.

I'm curious how they manage sway with that kind of balance? As Chuck mentioned above, there was no "towing tackle" on those test vehicles. It looked like a simple ball and shank hitch. But I did notice some levers on the tongues. When I get a few extra minutes, I'll probably go into researching what all that is about.

But I'm pretty sure one of those levers is a "parking brake". And how brilliant is that?! What a GREAT idea! And I doubt it would be difficult or expensive to add.

I think we have a lot to learn here about trailer construction and dynamics, but we're also operating in a different environment. From what I understand, the speed restrictions are much more strict for vehicles towing trailers in Europe. Being from Texas, it's not uncommon to see trailers being towed well in excess of 65 mph. Which I think makes quite a bit of difference in how the vehicle is balanced and set up...

Interesting look, thanks for sharing!

[norty1]

This is the oldest one I ever saw and about says it all for being overloaded. I am impressed by his comment, " He's burning a bit rich"!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAfZ1N56qjY

[bono]

Really good one!

[zuley]

We did the Budapest to Amsterdam river cruise this past September. Passed numerous little RV parks along the route. I was amazed by the single axle 20-23 foot trailers hooked up to small cars suck as a volkswagon passat. Being a car guy I was on the lookout while in the various towns doing our tours for pick up trucks. In 21 days we saw lots of smaller trucks but honestly only saw one 1/2 ton pickup, a lifted Ram that was obviously an import.

[DocBrown]

That little car towing that big trailer up a hill never gets old. I read somewhere that it was an intentional gag but I've never been able to confirm it.

[bankr63]

Those trailers are SOOO light. Their top weight category is 1900+kg (about 4000 lbs). That would probably be the lightest weight class in a North American towing contest.

[bono]

There are differently trailers in 6-7k lbs range in Europe. No weight distribution, surge brakes.

[DocBrown]

I am a bit surprised about the surge brakes. I've never been real impressed with them compared to electric.

Bono what kind of trailer is that in the image? And where is this? I'd like to see specs on it. I can't find anything that long on the manufacturer sites I've pulled up. I'm thinking that's not more than 5k loaded. 25 ft trailers over there are 3500# loaded. Also everything I'm reading about it says that the weight restrictions are far tighter than the US. Germany is even tighter about than the UK.

[bono]

If I am not mistaken it is Adria.

https://www.adria-mobil.com/caravans/alpina

I saw post of the owner of this trailer on one of the discussion forums. Photo taken in the Alps (do not remember the place, but the owner mentioned that frequently they are taking this trailer for skiing). He mentioned 36 ft long and 6k lbs ready for camping. This matches with the specs from the website.

[Merrick]

Are they saying that towing is safer in Europe because the TTs are lighter and regulations. I'm gonna stick with my electric brakes, WD system and 1/2 ton.

[bono]

Who is saying this?

Originally Posted by Merrick

Are they saying that towing is safer in Europe because the TTs are lighter and regulations. I'm gonna stick with my electric brakes, WD system and 1/2 ton.

[jpgale]

So as JOF's token Brit I have to chime in on this topic . Please understand I have lived in the US since 2005 so things may have changed in that time. I will go from the UK perspective as that is all I know, note travel trailers are called caravans.

Lets start off with vehicles. Pickup trucks are becoming quite popular in the UK, not 1/2 ton or above but compact. You will see a few imports around buy not many, because even a small 1/2 is way to big for the roads in the UK. In the small country lanes I used to drive on to and from work you could just about fit 2 ford fusion type cars on the road. A lot of the cars are also diesel.

The tow equipment on cars, truck and van are normally permanently mounted, some are removable for storage however not like the hitch receiver system used in the US. As the equipment is not removable it is hard to have a wdh. I have seen friction swag arms for caravans in the UK. For normal trailers there is a single 6 pin plug (IIRC I don't have one to look at) this runs the lights etc (Rear fog lights are a requirement). For caravans you will need 2 6 pin plugs, the first is the normal trailer functions, the second is for the caravan electrical system, charging the batteries running the fridge etc.

As for the caravans themselves they are different, the kitchen is smaller and generally centrally mounted over the axle(s), there is a composting or chemical toilet so no need for a black thank. There must be a fresh and gray water tank but I never gave those much though. There are normally seating areas on the ends of the caravan that will be convertible into beds. There is not normally a permanent bed inside, at least inside any that I have seen. This is not true for the static caravans (like a park model just not actually towable). Remember the roads are smaller so the caravans need to be smaller as well.

Finally the legal side. It is very true that these days to tow a trailer of any type you actually need to pass a separate test. This is the A+E (I can not remember the actual class letters for a car so assuming it is A), when you get your driving license you will get just A, when you want to tow you have to pass an additional test. This is the same for the semi truck drivers who must pass on a rigid (C class) before taking the C+E for the semi trucks.

There is a legal maximum a car can tow in the UK, it is not a function of what the car maker says or even any numbers provided (that I remember). The most a car can tow is 100% of its curb weight. So if your car weights 3000 pounds that is the most you can tow legally. Again this is not true for semi trucks which have 5th wheels and in the UK (not for the rest of the EU) can max out at 44 metric tons (approx 97,000 pounds).

James

[DocBrown]

James thanks for that. I've also noticed that slide outs are a rarity on European caravans. No doubt due the added weight.

Bono, thanks for the link. Those are some really beautiful trailers on the inside.

Originally Posted by Merrick

Are they saying that towing is safer in Europe because the TTs are lighter and regulations. I'm gonna stick with my electric brakes, WD system and 1/2 ton.

Not sure where you are getting that from.

What I've seen traditionally posted on US RV forums is how in Europe vehicles have higher tow ratings and people tow much heavier trailers than we do here. I'm finding that's not the case at all. In several countries they don't even allow trailers heavier than the curb weight of the tow vehicle, regardless of published tow capacity. Even in places where they do, trailering experts recommend never exceeding the curb weight of the TV.

Does this make them safer? I think they are just as cautious as most of us. So from a safety standpoint they are probably about the same as we are. The reality is that everyone wants to get to the campsite safe, have a great time, and get home safely.

[berwin]

I lived in Germany for about four years back in the '80s and have been back many times driving all over Germany and nearby countries (Army). European furniture is much lighter than American as are their cars so I would expect their trailers to follow suit. As for driving, the Germans require an extensive school which covers not only how to drive but how to maintain your car as well. Bottom line is that it expensive to get a driver's license. They enforce their laws to the letter as well. There are places on the Autobahn where there is no speed limit but when there is a posted limit, they allow 3 KPH over the limit or else you get fined - on the spot. Safety inspection? No body rust allowed and they test your brakes to make sure there is no pull to either side when applied.

[spark of insanity]

Wish I had the money. I would get one of those trailers. Skip the car I love the make of those trailers. Wow. Nice. Need to sell them here. Any one want to fund a Euro invasion?

[tigger1197]

I lifted this from the Airstream forums. It explains a lot about why European RV are what they are. Specifically taking about weight distribution hitches but I've seen somewhere else the same thing applies to electric trailer brakes.

WD is legally prohibited in Europe because back in the 1960's the European trailer manufacturers were afraid that AS & other bigger US & Canadian trailer makers would come over there, if owners could use WD hitches, so they lobbied Germany & all of the other European & UK countries to prohibit WD, which the EU has continued in force today!

Airstream countered by building lighter small trailers for that market, thumbing their noses to the Euro/UK makers, & continue today

Another reply:

Yes, you can buy them. You just can't use them on a vehicle built since 1998, and with European Whole Vehicle Type Approval for the vehicle itself, for tow vehicles up to 3500 kg and 8 passengers. See EU regulation 94/20 EC. You can use a weight distributing hitch on a non EEC vehicle you have privately imported, as an example. Or on a heavier commercial vehicle.

Since any current EU vehicle is going to have whole vehicle type approval, it isn't surprising that the engineers in these European countries will not recommend the use of weight distributing equipment. And in most cases, EU manufacturers do their design engineering in Europe, with only sales/marketing and in some cases assembly, done in North America

[DocBrown]

Here's more interesting stuff behind all this, a good read.

https://oppositelock.kinja.com/tow-me-down-1609112611