Jayco RV Owners Forum
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 01-08-2014, 03:18 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Central PA
Posts: 37
When to determine tongue weight

Hello Everyone.

We are considering the purchase of a new Jayco Eagle TT. Our TV is a 2013 F250 SuperCrew 6.2L short bed. GVWR is 10,000 lbs. Payload is 3,000 lbs. Max conventional tow weight is 12,400 lbs. with WDH and max tongue weight for a conventional tow is 1,250 lbs with WDH. I understand how to weigh my rig at a CAT scale. However, I have a question that I have never seen discussed before. That is WHEN do you determine tongue weight?

The TT of interest to us, lists a factory-specified tongue weight of 1,150 lbs.---a mere 100 pounds under our max. As an aside, our max tongue weight of 1,250 is the largest max tongue weight of all production trucks that use a 2 inch hitch receiver. The factory spec of 1,150 could quickly climb above our limit with the addition of batteries, etc. The TT has a GVWR of 9750 lbs., well within the margin for our TV.

Here is my confusion. If I use a tongue weight scale, will it produce the same value for tongue weight as the three step procedure in the "sticky" note? With a WDH, it would seem that some of that tongue weight would be redistributed. If so, then the tongue weight would be different as determined by the three step procedure versus a tongue weight scale. Which method determines the tongue weight that should be used to compare against the TV tongue weight limit?

For our purposes, I could take a tongue weight scale to a dealer and get a reading without being connected and at a CAT scale. Since tongue weight is the only questionable issue for us, I could possibly resolve it up front with a scale. However, if tongue weight decreases as the WDH is applied, I would need to use another method.

Thanks.
Terry
__________________

Tharrison is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2014, 04:33 PM   #2
Site Team
 
Crabman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Virginia`s Eastern Shore
Posts: 14,653
Supposedly tongue weight does not decrease when the WD is engaged, and I know that sounds odd. The loaded TW of that trailer will possibly be considerably more then the published dry TW. You could consider a larger Class V Hitch such as the one in the link with up to a 2700lb TW. Rustic Eagle can answer this question better then anyone I know, he authored our weight threads.



http://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Hitch/Curt/C15800.html
__________________

__________________
2017 Coachmen Catalina 283RKS
2004 Chevy 2500 HD CC 6.0l
2010 Jayflight 28BHS (sold)
Crabman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2014, 06:36 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Southwest Florida
Posts: 748
Many of us had the same thought when we were figuring weight for WDH. I remember the answer as being - the weight doesn't change, but rather how it's distributed. In other words if you start with 1000 pounds of tongue weight and have some distributed toward the front (TV), and some toward the TT axles, you still have the original 1000 on the ball.

You are wise to measure tongue weight at the dealer. Remember it's a loaded weight you want. Which answers your question directly - fully loaded as though you were leaving for a trip.

I'm sure Rustic Eagle has answered that question sometime in the past. A forum search might get you the answer you need.
OnTheGo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2014, 07:30 PM   #4
Moderator Emeritus
 
Rustic Eagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 7,368
Terry,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tharrison View Post
snip..... WHEN do you determine tongue weight?......snip
Tongue weight should be confirmed once one has the TT under "loaded" conditions, ready to camp. For enhanced TV handling and control of the TT under loaded conditions the loaded tongue weight should be 13% to 15% of the TT's loaded weight. So in order to determine the ideal loaded tongue weight the TT has to be weighed (CAT scale). For future thread reference, which model Jayco TT are you interested in?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tharrison View Post
snip.... The TT of interest to us, lists a factory-specified tongue weight of 1,150 lbs.---a mere 100 pounds under our max. As an aside, our max tongue weight of 1,250 is the largest max tongue weight of all production trucks that use a 2 inch hitch receiver. The factory spec of 1,150 could quickly climb above our limit with the addition of batteries, etc. The TT has a GVWR of 9750 lbs., well within the margin for our TV .....snip
The Jayco factory published tongue weight of 1,150lbs is under DRY (unloaded) conditions as you are aware, your actual "loaded" tongue weight will be higher and is defined by your personal loading habits. For example; if the TT loaded weighed in at 8,500lbs, the desired loaded tongue weight would be 1,105lbs to 1,275lbs (13% to 15%). If the TT was loaded to it's GVWR of 9,750lbs, then a loaded tongue weight of 1,268lbs to 1,463lbs. One would locate cargo in a manner to get the desired tongue weight.

As Crabman mentioned, you would have to upgrade your TV's receiver to accommodate the heavier weights. Also, check your TV's owners manual for any other towing and/or tongue weight restrictions other then just the OEM receiver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tharrison View Post
snip..... Here is my confusion. If I use a tongue weight scale, will it produce the same value for tongue weight as the three step procedure in the "sticky" note? .....snip
Yes, but in many cases there will be a little difference because of CAT scale tolerances (plus/minus 40lbs). The only thing a Sherline tongue weight scale won't tell you is whether you are 13% to 15% of the TT's loaded weight ......, unless you know the TT's loaded weight before hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tharrison View Post
snip.... With a WDH, it would seem that some of that tongue weight would be redistributed ......snip..... Which method determines the tongue weight that should be used to compare against the TV tongue weight limit? ....... snip
The TT tongue weight placed over the TV's hitch ball for the most part remains constant. The effect of the TT's tongue being placed on the hitch ball results in the TV's rear axle weight increasing and the TV's front axle weight decreasing. What the WDH is doing is removing weight off the TV's rear axle, then distributes weight to the TV's front axle and some weight back to the TT's axles. This is where the CAT scale comes in, as you already know. About 10% to 15% of the tongue weight "value" will be distributed to the TT axles (just a ballpark), differs with TV/TT combinations.

Either method (Sherline tongue scale or CAT scale) can be used for TV tongue weight limit review.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tharrison View Post
snip.... For our purposes, I could take a tongue weight scale to a dealer and get a reading without being connected and at a CAT scale. Since tongue weight is the only questionable issue for us, I could possibly resolve it up front with a scale...... snip
As mentioned above, taking a tongue weight reading at the RV dealer won't represent your loaded towing conditions. If the TT is sitting on the dealer lot, look for the yellow sticker on the side of the TT, there will be an actual UVW (ship weight) identified, and in almost every case this weight will be higher then the Jayco published UVW.
Then: (yellow sticker UVW) + (100lbs dealer adds; battery, etc) + (your estimated TT cargo weight) = TT loaded weight estimate..., then take 13% to 15% for your loaded tongue weight estimate.

Hope this doesn't add to the confusion

Feel free to comment, or ask for any clarifications.

Bob

On Edit: I would use 500lbs - 700lbs for a TT cargo weight estimate..., plus any fresh water weight if you tow with it. Also, if the TT isn't on the dealer's lot, then add 400lbs minimum to the Jayco published UVW for an estimated ship weight.
__________________

2016 GM 2500HD 6.0L/4.10
2018 Jay Flight 24RBS
2005 Jayco Eagle 278FBS (retired)
1999 Jayco Eagle 246FB (retired)
Reese HP Dual Cam (integrated sway control)
Rustic Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 09:18 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Seann45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Saskatoon Sask Canada
Posts: 9,701
I agree with Crabman go with a class V hitch. I did that just for safety sake
__________________
Seann
2004 Chev Silverado Duramax optioned past the max. 2009 Jayco Eagle 308 RLS 765 watts of solar, 6-6 volt batteries (696 amp hour), 2000 watt (4000 surge) whole house inverter.
175 days boondocking in 2017
215/2016, 211/2015, 196/14, 247/13, 193/12

Seann45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 10:44 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 973
When you are all done with the hitch, and you decided to upgrade your platform, you might still need to add timbren springs or air bags to your F250. I did this to limit travel on the springs. your Ford will carry the weight and pull the load fine but it's eaiser to get setup when your truck rear end is not jacked up to the moon trying to load/uload the spring bars on your hitch. Timbren springs limits the down travel and allows you to get a good setup without the need to account for all the possibe spring travel designed into your truck. But you can do that later like I did. Once I did this I had to adjust the hitch head setup, it went from almost top set of holes to the bottom set. The total travel when hooking up with the timbrens is minimual compared to the crazy up and down without them. Just a suggestion. Ford also has the higher rated hitch platform for your truck but you have to keep up with the spacer for the 2 inch hitch.
__________________
No man has a good enough memory to be a successful liar. Abraham Lincoln

2016 36FBTS Pinnacle
2016 F350, 6.7, 4x4, DRW, long bed
B & W Companion 5th wheel Hitch
eldermike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 12:07 PM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Central PA
Posts: 37
Thanks for all of the quick and thoughtful responses. One response asked for a bit of background to better under what I am trying to do.

We wish to move to an Eagle TT but our choices are limited 1) by the small gray tank capacity on many of the models and 2) a lack of storage space (wardrobe/pantry) on some models. I contacted my dealer and he informed me that a discontinued model 316RKDS is being reintroduced as the 306RKDS. It has not been announced and does not yet appear on the website, but dealers have the information. I am in the process of determining if this unit will work with my TV. The TV specs easily handle the TT with the possible exception of max tongue weight. Exacerbating this is that not a single unit of the new model has been built yet.

Again thanks for the input. It has been helpful in thinking through these issues.

Terryy
__________________

Tharrison is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Virginia State Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2002-2016 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.