2001 kiwi 23b is a leaker

[Branmat]

Hi all
First time here. Just purchased a 23b through an auction sight unseen. Obviously got it for quite cheap and it is cosmetically in very good shape except for some leaks.
I have no delamination anywhere that I can see or feel on walls, ceiling or roof besides one spot above rear bunk door.
I found the floor to be spongey with water marks near back and front on linoleum. Pulled linoleum and yup, wet on both ends. Had some rain and found it a slow drip at socket for rear tent pole. Ripped out that shelf.
Climbed onto roof and found that the caulking had eroded from around clearance lights. Re sealed with clear silicone (sorry I'm new lol...found out shortly after to not use silicone). It rained again two days later and I have no drip or wetness in that area
I also noticed that there is quite a bit of silicone around the outside top bunk doors. I plan on removing that and replacing with proflex (which I just did around wheel wells with). Any tips on getting silcone residue off would be appreciated.
I guess what I am looking for is anyone else who has experienced this or has any pointers or places I should be looking for to seal up. I realize I prob bought a lemon but I am determined to get it right.

Thanks

[darlingtontrio]

Ours had leaks also, we have a 2001 23b, it leaked along the screw seam on the roof. I too caulked it until I found out that was wrong. I have since peeled it off and have used the tape which I can not think of the name right now to save my life. I bought a roll 4 inches wide and by 5o feet and started putting it on my roof. So far, no more leaks.

[nbhybrid]

eternabond

[Branmat]

Originally Posted by darlingtontrio

Ours had leaks also, we have a 2001 23b, it leaked along the screw seam on the roof. I too caulked it until I found out that was wrong. I have since peeled it off and have used the tape which I can not think of the name right now to save my life. I bought a roll 4 inches wide and by 5o feet and started putting it on my roof. So far, no more leaks.

Screw seam on the roof? Are you referring to the seam before it starts to curve down towards the bunk? That is currently covered with a 6" wide rubberized caulking of some sorts. You removed this?

Thanks!!

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Branmat

snip...... Are you referring to the seam before it starts to curve down towards the bunk?.......snip

I'll let 'darlingtontrio' confirm his statement, but I would assume he is in fact referring to the Filon/Roof Seam as you described above. If this is the case, I can say that he isn't alone, I applied Eternabond Sealer Tape to my front Filon/Roof seam as well.

My caulking wasn't compromised so I left it alone, prepped/cleaned the surface and applied the Eternabond over the caulking.

Here is my Eternabond roof project:http://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/sh...project&page=3

Bob

[DocBrown]

Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle

I'll let 'darlingtontrio' confirm his statement, but I would assume he is in fact referring to the Filon/Roof Seam as you described above. If this is the case, I can say that he isn't alone, I applied Eternabond Sealer Tape to my front Filon/Roof seam as well.

My caulking wasn't compromised so I left it alone, prepped/cleaned the surface and applied the Eternabond over the caulking.


Bob

I had the same issue on my old Kiwi 17a. Found evidence of a leak and traced it to the roof seam. I caught it early so there was no real damage. Opened it up, dried it all out, and sealed it with Eternabond. That stuff is awesome!

Bob, I like the Dicor sealing. It gives it a "finished look".

[Branmat]

Thanks all who've responded.

So far I havent really found the leak. I suspect it is from each bunk door seams as they have been siliconed and some looks as if it has pulled away.
I am going to remove the silicone tomorrow and use silicon-B-gon to remove residue. I purchased Pro-Flex caulking from my local RV dealer and will use that to re seal.
As far as the roof goes I picked up some DiCor self levelling roof caulk from the dealer as well which I will go over the existing roof caulk with.
I placed a heater and dehumidifier in it for 4 hours last night and it is slowly drying out.
Any other problem areas wit these that anyone knows of?

I was told by a former RV/Trailer repair tech that I would be asking for trouble removing the bonded floor. He said that they had an instance where the walls actually started caving in after cutting out a decent sized section. Apparently the are vacuum bonded which is what gives them their strength.

I plan on drying out the floor as best I can, applying a mold killer/preventer that I picked up at the local hardware store. Then putting new 1/4" ply down on top and then a new floor on top of that. I also have to repair the steps as they are missing and the wood at the front door is completely rotted away. May have to weld up some stairs and have some thoughts about welding a few cross members underneath to give the floor some extra support.

Any other ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks again!!

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Branmat

snip.....Any other problem areas with these that anyone knows of?.....snip

Yes, I would check around the roof mounted A/C unit. If I'm not mistaken the 23B has a flat roof and the weight of the A/C unit overtime can settle the roof a little causing water to pool around the A/C. If the A/C seal gasket is compromised moisture could get into the roof structure and travel to just about any area within the HTT.

Also, if the TT has the TPO roofing material with the fleece backing, any moisture that comes in contact with the fleece backing can be "wicked" all over the place.

Bob

[Branmat]

Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle

Yes, I would check around the roof mounted A/C unit. If I'm not mistaken the 23B has a flat roof and the weight of the A/C unit overtime can settle the roof a little causing water to pool around the A/C. If the A/C seal gasket is compromised moisture could get into the roof structure and travel to just about any area within the HTT.

Also, if the TT has the TPO roofing material with the fleece backing, any moisture that comes in contact with the fleece backing can be "wicked" all over the place.

Bob

How would I know if it is TPO roofing

[Rustic Eagle]

The type of TPO roofing material in question has a "fleece" textured backing, and this particular style of TPO was used on various models in the 2000-2006 model years. Jayco during the same time period also used a EPDM rubber roofing material but it had a "smooth" surface backing.

If you remove the A/C cover from the inside of your HTT, there should some excess roofing material to inspect.

Jayco presently uses about four different types of TPO and EDPM roofing materials, none have a fleece backing.

Bob

[Branmat]

Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle

The type of TPO roofing material in question has a "fleece" textured backing, and this particular style of TPO was used on various models in the 2000-2006 model years. Jayco during the same time period also used a EPDM rubber roofing material but it had a "smooth" surface backing.

If you remove the A/C cover from the inside of your HTT, there should some excess roofing material to inspect.

Jayco presently uses about four different types of TPO and EDPM roofing materials, none have a fleece backing.

Bob

Ok....looked but could not see any material that would identify the roof although at this point I suppose it won't matter anyways. I have checked the roof and used some dicor to hit any spots that looked suspicious. I also removed all the silicone along the top of each bunk and replaced with proflex. Did on the top of the windows and access door for shower as well. I think I may have to get some more and do all seams on the slideout side of the trailer as well. Haven't yet removed the ac unit, may do after lunch.
All the floors have dried except the area near the hot water tank. I can see no leaks and the linoleum that I left under it is dry. Could the seal around the outside be leaking? If so then what do you use there as I would suspect it needs to be high heat.
Although it is a possibility they any remaining water is still wicking out of the trailer through that section of floor... it hasn't rained here in days so really no new water has been introduced. This morning was damp though
Ugh what have I gotten myself into....

[Branmat]

Ok so after a bit of rain I checked the trailer. The back bunk end that was the area that was dripping is dry. I have replaced the seals around the storage hatch doors as well.
My next question had to do with removing a small section of floor near the front door. I am curious to know if anyone has tackled this as I don't want to damage the under skin (not sure what the name of the black wrap is). I may try to use a due grinder with a zip blade to slowly cut out. I don't understand how jayco could bolt stairs to the wood like that without any support to the frame.
I am going to add steel plate and some angle under the trailer to support that area. Then bolt the stairs through that and floor above

So what my plan is....zip out section by door (may have to remove bench seat next to it depending how far rot goes) replace with new wood to match existing floor level. Place new plywood (3/8) on top
Weld up some unistrut to under trailer to frame for extra support. I may just weld some flanges to the end of the unistrut and bolt it to frame so that I don't have to worry about burning the under skin. Anyone know if anything is run inside the frame (wiring, etc)? Then I will drill up through the unistrut into new floor above and bolt down using carriage bolts. Sink them into floor slightly and use wood putty to smoothen around bolts so they aren't visible through laminate

Any other suggestions would be great!

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Branmat

snip.....So what my plan is....zip out section by door (may have to remove bench seat next to it depending how far rot goes) replace with new wood to match existing floor level. Place new plywood (3/8) on top
Weld up some unistrut to under trailer to frame for extra support. I may just weld some flanges to the end of the unistrut and bolt it to frame so that I don't have to worry about burning the under skin........snip

I don't have anything to add at this time...., but if you can take some pics as you proceed with your repairs and feel free to post them with any comments. I'm sure they will be helpful to others.

Bob

[Branmat]

Here is a pic of the supports I made. After jacking them up from underneath the trailer and mounting them to the frame they made a huge difference. I picked up the plywood today but ran out of time (mostly due to football) and will tackle this week. I was careful to cut out the linoleum so that I can use it as a template

[darlingtontrio]

Branmat, sorry I have not answered sooner. I am referring to the roof seam. That seams to be where all of my leaking was coming from. We have had some serious downpours since I got it sealed and the inside has stayed dry. I am now in the process of trying to replace some of the rot, but that will be a long process.

You are doing allot of work. I like how you put the eternabond on the top of the slide. I never thought about that. I have leftover tape so I guess I will be doing the same.

[Branmat]

Originally Posted by darlingtontrio

Branmat, sorry I have not answered sooner. I am referring to the roof seam. That seams to be where all of my leaking was coming from. We have had some serious downpours since I got it sealed and the inside has stayed dry. I am now in the process of trying to replace some of the rot, but that will be a long process.

You are doing allot of work. I like how you put the eternabond on the top of the slide. I never thought about that. I have leftover tape so I guess I will be doing the same.

No problem!

I have all the leaks under control as far as I can tell. I have had no additional water enter the trailer that I can see.

I cleaned the remaining flooring with mold and mildew killer and laid down the plywood. In some sections I could not get the screws attaching the new plywood to grab. The original wood had been wet in some spots for awhile and is just not strong nor thick enough to grab.

I also suspect that the walls may have dropped slightly. Approx 1/4-1/2". If anyone knows how they are attached to the floor it would be helpful. The floor overhangs the frame by about 12" and the walls rest on that. As far as I can see there are a whopping two 10" supports per side (one at each end) that come off the outside of the frame and sit under the walls. Then there are 2 additional 2" supports (if you could call them that) along the frame. I am going to be adding two additional supports to each side. I can't say for sure that they have as I can't seem to get an engineering drawing from jayco. I may have to just call them. I've put a square on the outside frame to underneath the floor. Problem is the outside skin wraps up underneath slightly. Apparently i need a shorter square to not have that interfere.

Just putting this all down in case this can help someone in the future.

If I could do it the way I really wanted? I would rip everything out, support the walls and cut the floor out completely. Make a deck frame on top of the trailer frame esssentially. Put the walls on to that and so on. Prob is I don't have a massive garage to pull it into for winter work nor do I have all the free time in the world as that would be an undertaking. So I am doing what I can to make it travel worthy and enjoy done camping time with my girls.

[Branmat]

Here is a pic of original wetness under linoleum

[Branmat]

And another

My apologies I have no idea why the rotation isn't correct. It is on my end.....

[Branmat]

New plywood going in

[Branmat]

New flooring started