2016 X23F Floor is Failing

[twoballscrewball]

Long post so bear with me if you can

So we have a 2016 X23F that we bought new in Feb 2016.

I love the trailer.

We noticed right away that the floor was a bit 'squishy', but when researching I knew that this was due to the hybrid flooring used in these ultralights (ply/foam/ply) in combination with the widely spaced supports.

2016 all was fine, just what I would call 'usual' compression when walking.

Last year (2017) we noticed that heavy traffic areas (kitchen sink, area near dinette/couch) was definitely feeling softer as time went on but it was not terrible.

Noticed it more this spring. And now, we just got back from a 10 day trip (July 2018) and the floor is definitely starting to fail.

There are two spots where you can clearly see the seams on the 1/4" luan through the vinyl flooring, and we heard the ply cracking in this area more than once this trip while walking on it.

So we're weighing our options here. I don't particularly like my dealer's service dept, especially for a job like this. I see where some folks are getting Jayco to perform the full floor replacement at their factory over the winter, but I am not super thrilled with the thought of having my entire trailer gutted to have that done, whether at the factory or not.

I am considering installing engineered flooring in the trailer, over top of the existing flooring. I think I might even have room to go with a 3/8" ply base over the vinyl, then the interlocking flooring over that, and still have no issues with the slide out or any of the doors/cabinets opening up. I also think I can add some additional bracing under the trailer in the areas that see a lot of foot traffic.

Anyone done something similar? Thoughts?

[penguin149]

Don't have that problem (so far) but I'd lean towards option 3. Deconstructing and reconstructing could lead to more (and maybe bigger) problems. Find a dense, thin laminate and let the tongue/groove add strength...brace some underneath...and enjoy the camper!

Would the Jayco fix be under warranty? Maybe settle with them for a cash payment? Fund your fix?

[Scott91370]

Just remember you'll be adding a lot of weight by doing this.
I also think there are two other things to bring up.
1) If it is wet it will keep separating and rotting, things will only get worse - you need to find where the water is coming from.
2) I honestly do not think the floor will be strong enough unless you do use the 3/8" plywood, even then it may be slightly soft.

I redid the front 1/3 of my 19h and it's pretty sturdy. It's not a terrible job like the roof; mainly because you can turn on the a/c and run some fans to keep you cool while doing it. But it is messy and you want to get out all of the wood that is wet and find the leak or the rest of the floor will have issues and eventually the replacement wood is going to rot as well.

I need to find a new place to host pics so I can update my Floor and Ceiling threads with working images...

Good luck and let us know how it turns out with a write up!

[homer1959]

I dont see that the OP have a problem with a floor damaged by water. I think he is experiencing the spongy laminated floor ... my wh suffered from that too. Jayco fixed it on warranty... it was an ok job but the floor is still soft, flexing where you walk a lot... its a sh... y design and I will never get another floor like that

Originally Posted by Scott91370

Just remember you'll be adding a lot of weight by doing this.
I also think there are two other things to bring up.
1) If it is wet it will keep separating and rotting, things will only get worse - you need to find where the water is coming from.
2) I honestly do not think the floor will be strong enough unless you do use the 3/8" plywood, even then it may be slightly soft.

I redid the front 1/3 of my 19h and it's pretty sturdy. It's not a terrible job like the roof; mainly because you can turn on the a/c and run some fans to keep you cool while doing it. But it is messy and you want to get out all of the wood that is wet and find the leak or the rest of the floor will have issues and eventually the replacement wood is going to rot as well.

I need to find a new place to host pics so I can update my Floor and Ceiling threads with working images...

Good luck and let us know how it turns out with a write up!

[Tunce the traveler]

So far my 2010 jay feather is just fine but if a problem did arise I could not add braceing underneath because my fresh water tank is right below the kitchen floor.

[Nathalie]

I have this same problem with my 2011 X17Z Feather Ultralite. In and around the bathroom and entrance. I'm not one to pull off a do it yourself job, so I'll contact the manufacturer.

[twoballscrewball]

Yeah it's not water damage, it's just the foam compressing and the luan seams separating under the vinyl, same as all the other stories out there.

Yes I will add some weight to the trailer if I overlay another floor. My X23F can do 1500lbs of cargo, I'm thinking a new floor will add about 250lbs max, we pack pretty light for the most part so 1200lbs is way more than enough capacity. The limited storage avail in the 23F helps out with that lol.

I have a leftover box of flooring from our bathroom, I am going to just piece it together over the soft are and see how it feels walking on it. I don't mind if it's still a little 'springy', I just want the load to be spread out a bit more to avoid any further damage to the luan, especially at the joints.

I'll keep this thread updated. Might get out today and test out the box of flooring I have.


I contacted Jayco and they just advised to take it to my dealer to look at it.

[ALJO]

If they would have used the high density Styrofoam (more cost) it wouldn't happen, luan ply on itself is also a soft material. Best is to put in a wood laminate floor (5/16) or Alure Laminate vinyl floor (1/4"). You even can use the spongy under layer it you want.
RV's with slide out have to be sure for enough clearance.

[twoballscrewball]

Yeah I'm shocked when I see that white fluffy foam in there when someone posts a pic of a repair. A sheet of that green or pink insulation foam would weigh about the same and be so much stronger.

Anyway,

I had some leftover 8mm wood laminate and some leftover 7 or 8mm vinyl laminate.

Vinyl laminate bends too much and is not much of an improvement over the existing floor.

Wood laminate worked GREAT! I locked together 5 sheets of the wood laminate and placed it over the main soft spot near the corner of the couch. Huge, huge difference, I can place all of my (substantial) weight right on my heels and the floor barely moves at all, and feels very solid.

I also slid in the slide out with the wood in place and it clears fine.

So, that being said, Since it feels this great with 8mm, I'm going to pick up some 12mm (much thicker) laminate, and definitely overlay the entire visible floor. Not sure if I will mess with the bathroom since I'm not planning on getting waterproof laminate, might just use a threshold transition there to drop back down to the factory vinyl.

Might wait until the fall to do it, not sure.

Here's a quick pic of my test sheet. This is not over the soft spot, the main soft area is at the front of the couch near the entrance (bottom of the photo).

Side note, I like the contrast of the light wood floor against the dark furniture. What's everyone's thoughts on that? Wife says she likes the original gray floor better, but I think the light wood really looks good.

[bankr63]

Had a thought this weekend while looking for supplies for another project. My local Home Depot has 1/4" Maple plywood in 4x4 sheets for cabinet projects. Feels pretty stable compared to lighter luan. Not too expensive for a single sheet which is all I'd need for a patch. Any thoughts on upgrading the plywood. It probably would shrink and expand at a different rate than the luan in heat, but not that's the only negative that came to mind.

ETA: And yes Steve, I like the clean look of the laminate. Is the surface durable enough to put up with the dirt that inevitably makes its way into a trailer?

I have had good luck with regular quality laminate in damp zones if I use a good waterproof glue on the seams to seal them. makes a nice solid contiguous floor. I only do the edges in the wet zone though; it's a pain to do a big area (did a whole kitchen with edge glue once).

[twoballscrewball]

I've used that same laminate there in our home in the living room and dining room. It holds up extremely well, the surface on these hardwood laminates are remarkably resilient.

I like the waterproof glue idea. Prob a good idea near the entry door and near the sink just in case.

[bdreinv]

I would check with manufacturer material looks great! But if all glued down can it handle the floor flex?

[bankr63]

Originally Posted by bdreinv

I would check with manufacturer material looks great! But if all glued down can it handle the floor flex?

To be clear, you are not gluing it down, you are edge gluing it to itself. The floor still floats the same as any laminate; the glue seals the edges of the substrate and prevents the swelling that occurs when water contacts it and wicks in.

I learned about this when installing the above mentioned kitchen floor. Was a high-end European brand floor, and the manufacturer actually recommended this as an installation method for wet areas, including selling you the glue. I have since used it on less expensive floors with good results using a more reasonably priced indoor/outdoor waterproof glue. I also tried it (once and never again) with a really low end WalMart flooring with less satisfactory results, but that was mostly because the panels really didn't mate together very well in the first place.

[FeatherFam]

This is a sad old topic. The ultralight floors are garbage. We use 7/8" interlocking heavy duty foam tiles. We bought them from American Floor Mats. They noticeably mitigate the flex, bow, and squish. They are also very comfortable under foot. The luan will eventually fray and splinter, and you know what the foam will do. This is especially true at the seams, in between the paltry floor supports, and around cutouts (like the toilet). The problem is compounded by very poor floor support design and construction. Pull some of your underbelly cover to see for yourself. Or maybe you should not do that to yourself. I believe the underbelly cover is for more than protecting the underside of the trailer; it covers/hides many assembly derelictions and cruddy, low-grade parts.

We are glad that we got the interlocking gym tiles; they are one more thing to spend money on, keep up with, and have in the way in storage, but it beats a disintegrating floor. We hope to keep our floor intact and relatively undamaged for a few more years, and then we are moving on from this unit. We will not buy another "ultralight." We may not buy another "box" trailer. Check out American Floor Mats. It is a much cheaper, easier, and extremely light weight solution. You can custom cut the mats to your liking. We got the brown color that matches the interior very well.

On a side note, I use the extra tiles that we ordered to lie, kneel, or sit on while I work on the TT or other vehicles. They provide excellent cushion!

[Auto_Pilot]

How can a company produce such a poorly built camper and be proud of It? Just as the warranty comes to an end we will have to replace our floor too! Makes me want to purchase a different brand next time.

[homer1959]

You have the right to be disappointed and mad at Jayco... but dont be naive... there is no better company buiding better trailer than Jayco because they are all the same built from the same junk, components, manpower and location they all build overpriced junk .... however some have better marketing department making you beleive that they are ...different.... what makes me buy a Jayco is the 2 years warranty, certainly not the initial quality and the quality control applied to their product

Originally Posted by Auto_Pilot

How can a company produce such a poorly built camper and be proud of It? Just as the warranty comes to an end we will have to replace our floor too! Makes me want to purchase a different brand next time.

[FeatherFam]

With all of the "slam-bam" manufacturers, I agree with this. However, there are a few RV makes that are not mass-produced in the same way as Jayco (Thor), Forest River, Winnebago, et al. ORV, Escape, BigFoot, Northwoods Maunfacturing, Oliver, and maybe a couple of others do not crank them out with the same practices as the slam-bam companies.

That said, the laminate floor is pretty much industry wide in the ultralights made by the mass producers. You have to move to a non-ultralight model to get better floor construction, and I think I need to look to a "small batch" producer to find a better TT product.

[scapel]

Originally Posted by twoballscrewball

Yeah I'm shocked when I see that white fluffy foam in there when someone posts a pic of a repair. A sheet of that green or pink insulation foam would weigh about the same and be so much stronger.

Anyway,

I had some leftover 8mm wood laminate and some leftover 7 or 8mm vinyl laminate.

Vinyl laminate bends too much and is not much of an improvement over the existing floor.

Wood laminate worked GREAT! I locked together 5 sheets of the wood laminate and placed it over the main soft spot near the corner of the couch. Huge, huge difference, I can place all of my (substantial) weight right on my heels and the floor barely moves at all, and feels very solid.

I also slid in the slide out with the wood in place and it clears fine.

So, that being said, Since it feels this great with 8mm, I'm going to pick up some 12mm (much thicker) laminate, and definitely overlay the entire visible floor. Not sure if I will mess with the bathroom since I'm not planning on getting waterproof laminate, might just use a threshold transition there to drop back down to the factory vinyl.

Might wait until the fall to do it, not sure.

Here's a quick pic of my test sheet. This is not over the soft spot, the main soft area is at the front of the couch near the entrance (bottom of the photo).

Side note, I like the contrast of the light wood floor against the dark furniture. What's everyone's thoughts on that? Wife says she likes the original gray floor better, but I think the light wood really looks good.

I go with the light wood.

[scapel]

Originally Posted by homer1959

You have the right to be disappointed and mad at Jayco... but dont be naive... there is no better company buiding better trailer than Jayco because they are all the same built from the same junk, components, manpower and location they all build overpriced junk .... however some have better marketing department making you beleive that they are ...different.... what makes me buy a Jayco is the 2 years warranty, certainly not the initial quality and the quality control applied to their product

I think they made errors in design on mine. Materials are OK.

[docdvm]

The ultralight floors with foam are an engineering mistake. I have a friend with a Prime Time Crusader with the same issue. Entire floor became soft within 6 months of purchase. Prime Time assessed the damage determined it to be a catastrophic failure and replaced it with a brand new unit at no cost. This took awhile but they were honestly committed to satisfy their customers.

Does Jayco stand behind their product?????

I do hope so as I have an Eagle HT fifth wheel which so far has not had any major issues. Hopefully the design and manufacture will prove to be better than the Crusader.