Backing up on a hill

[nutdriver]

Originally Posted by Levinehikeski

Read my friend, the trailer is smaller than that, and the driveway/distance is 35ft…

Thanks for the correction.

[CBCOCRBO]

Get yourself a good trailer dolly like a Park-it 360. I have the Park-it B3 10K and can move a 10K trailer up that grade with no problem on pavement. Plus you have the advantage of being way more maneuverable. Check out their videos on YouTube. You will be impressed. I was and that’s why I bought one. I moved our new 29RKS backwards up a steep grade and then a 90 degree turn into our spot at our RV seasonal lot and placed it 2” from the door level deck. They are set up to activate the trailer brakes when you let go of the power switch. Two speeds. Slow and Slower. Ya gotta s as t least check them out. Cheers from Rick.

[jimmoore13]

You asked for and are getting opinions. My opinion.

1. In most transmissions, Reverse is a taller gear than first gear going forward. Of course, this varies by vehicle manufacturer and model. But it's often the case. This means that a conventional transmission (manual or auto) will have less low end grunt in reverse. Since you have a CVT, this depends on programming and other variables, but in your case, you may have the advantage of very low initial gearing in both reverse and "first" that will allow the engine to rev higher at lower ground speed. Check with Subaru for a definitive answer.

2. When backing uphill, the primary drive wheels on a rear drive vehicle are at a traction disadvantage. I have a RAM 1500 that has an auto-4WD (or AWD) setting. A bit of wheel slip at the rear causes the fronts to engage. Very handy in snow or on washboard gravel roads (no rear axle tramp, and towing a trailer causes little or no wheelspin even on steep uphills). But this is NOT a good recipe for backing a heavy trailer uphill. In my case, I do what others mentioned and drop it in 4WD Lo Range and creep up the hill with power and traction to spare. Note that this is kind of hard on the drivetrain, because there can be a lot of "binding" in the drivetrain when you attempt to turn and the surface is not slippery.

Your Subaru Ascent, however, is likely front wheel drive (FWD) biased with AWD that kicks in when there is front wheel spin. FWD is an ideal configuration for backing uphill, because the drive wheels are at the lowest point of the TV/Trailer configuration, and the engine is over the drive wheels for max traction. However, without 4WD-Lo, you must ask a lot of the transmission to creep up the hill in control while going backwards and pushing a two-ton trailer.

3. Backing up a steep hill, especially if it's long and narrow, means lots of potential to have to stop, go forward slightly and adjust your line while backing. Every time you have to start all that mass from a dead stop on a hill, you are working the hell out of the transmission. Can it take it? Unknown. Is it good for it? No way.

4. I know there are many reasons that you might only be able to back in...BUT, IF YOU CAN PULL IN, something like a Trailer Valet or similar may enable you to spin the trailer 180 degrees once you're up there. Of course, many things are necessary to allow for this, but consider it. I did this for years on a brutal driveway. Photos for perspective.

If you have room to spin the rig, there are several advantages.
Momentum rather than just brute force
Ease of driving forward
Generally safer
Much easier on the TV

So...more opinions.

[Arnold R]

Originally Posted by Levinehikeski

Read my friend, the trailer is smaller than that, and the driveway/distance is 35ft…

Yes, the driveway is 35 ft, the wheels need to travel 25 ft, and the travel length of the camper is just under 19 ft.

[22Seneca]

Yes, it's hard on the towing vehicle.

Reason is, at low speed like that, the torque converter in your CVT or auto transmission has to slip to provide power. It can't lock at those speeds. It's like slipping a manual transmission clutch, but instead of friction material, it's fluid friction. And it generates heat really quickly. You can see trans temps shoot up in to the low-mid 200's quickly, and beyond, if you're slow at it.

Vehicles like that really aren't meant to tow much and have inadequate transmission cooling for that kind of heavy work. If you're only doing 25-35 feet at a time, like you suggest, that's better than longer. Whatever you do, don't hold the vehicle and trailer in place by applying throttle. If you need to stop and hold, use the brake.

[57gasser]

jimmoore13 is spot on. Most vehicles, stick or auto, have a higher reverse gear and are at a much lower rpm , especially starting out, making it much harder to get the extra load , ie trailer, to move. As others have said, low range, if you have it can be almost mandatory. So to answer your question, yes it is hard on the vehicle. With an automatic, trans fluid temps can skyrocket rather quickly. With a stick, a burnt clutch may be in order.

[Arnold R]

Originally Posted by jimmoore13

You asked for and are getting opinions. My opinion.

1. In most transmissions, Reverse is a taller gear than first gear going forward. Of course, this varies by vehicle manufacturer and model. But it's often the case. This means that a conventional transmission (manual or auto) will have less low end grunt in reverse. Since you have a CVT, this depends on programming and other variables, but in your case, you may have the advantage of very low initial gearing in both reverse and "first" that will allow the engine to rev higher at lower ground speed. Check with Subaru for a definitive answer.

2. When backing uphill, the primary drive wheels on a rear drive vehicle are at a traction disadvantage. I have a RAM 1500 that has an auto-4WD (or AWD) setting. A bit of wheel slip at the rear causes the fronts to engage. Very handy in snow or on washboard gravel roads (no rear axle tramp, and towing a trailer causes little or no wheelspin even on steep uphills). But this is NOT a good recipe for backing a heavy trailer uphill. In my case, I do what others mentioned and drop it in 4WD Lo Range and creep up the hill with power and traction to spare. Note that this is kind of hard on the drivetrain, because there can be a lot of "binding" in the drivetrain when you attempt to turn and the surface is not slippery.

Your Subaru Ascent, however, is likely front wheel drive (FWD) biased with AWD that kicks in when there is front wheel spin. FWD is an ideal configuration for backing uphill, because the drive wheels are at the lowest point of the TV/Trailer configuration, and the engine is over the drive wheels for max traction. However, without 4WD-Lo, you must ask a lot of the transmission to creep up the hill in control while going backwards and pushing a two-ton trailer.

3. Backing up a steep hill, especially if it's long and narrow, means lots of potential to have to stop, go forward slightly and adjust your line while backing. Every time you have to start all that mass from a dead stop on a hill, you are working the hell out of the transmission. Can it take it? Unknown. Is it good for it? No way.

4. I know there are many reasons that you might only be able to back in...BUT, IF YOU CAN PULL IN, something like a Trailer Valet or similar may enable you to spin the trailer 180 degrees once you're up there. Of course, many things are necessary to allow for this, but consider it. I did this for years on a brutal driveway. Photos for perspective.

If you have room to spin the rig, there are several advantages.
Momentum rather than just brute force
Ease of driving forward
Generally safer
Much easier on the TV

So...more opinions.

Originally Posted by 22Seneca

Yes, it's hard on the towing vehicle.

Reason is, at low speed like that, the torque converter in your CVT or auto transmission has to slip to provide power. It can't lock at those speeds. It's like slipping a manual transmission clutch, but instead of friction material, it's fluid friction. And it generates heat really quickly. You can see trans temps shoot up in to the low-mid 200's quickly, and beyond, if you're slow at it.

Vehicles like that really aren't meant to tow much and have inadequate transmission cooling for that kind of heavy work. If you're only doing 25-35 feet at a time, like you suggest, that's better than longer. Whatever you do, don't hold the vehicle and trailer in place by applying throttle. If you need to stop and hold, use the brake.

Originally Posted by 57gasser

jimmoore13 is spot on. Most vehicles, stick or auto, have a higher reverse gear and are at a much lower rpm , especially starting out, making it much harder to get the extra load , ie trailer, to move. As others have said, low range, if you have it can be almost mandatory. So to answer your question, yes it is hard on the vehicle. With an automatic, trans fluid temps can skyrocket rather quickly. With a stick, a burnt clutch may be in order.

Originally Posted by EJH

@16WhiteColly The Ascent's have a 5k lbs tow rating, even though a CVT, the OP should be fine there.



@Arnold R Does your Ascent have "X-mode"? If so, I am not sure it works in reverse, but in forward drive, it will drop the CVT into a lower ratio. Try that.

FWIW, I also use 4-Lo to back up my 10 degree driveway. No issues. Like Jagiven, I cover the brake pedal and the truck crawls up the driveway incline.

Jimmoore, thank you for your response and for taking the time.
And thank you to EJH, 22Seneca, and 57gasser for comments along similar lines.
The good news is that the Ascents with 5k lbs towing capacity have upgraded CVTs, including extra cooling. And they have an X-mode (also in reverse) that lowers the transmission ratio and has other software tweaks, including limited front-rear slippage. It's kind of comparable to Lo 4WD.
That said, I am well aware that it remains a somewhat uncomfortable maneuver.

No, I don't have space to pull the trailer up. That would have made life much easier. I have considered laying down a level dedicated pad, but that is not really feasible. And I will look into CBCOCRBO's suggestion about using a dolly.

[Arnold R]

Originally Posted by CBCOCRBO

Get yourself a good trailer dolly like a Park-it 360. I have the Park-it B3 10K and can move a 10K trailer up that grade with no problem on pavement. Plus you have the advantage of being way more maneuverable. Check out their videos on YouTube. You will be impressed. I was and that’s why I bought one. I moved our new 29RKS backwards up a steep grade and then a 90 degree turn into our spot at our RV seasonal lot and placed it 2” from the door level deck. They are set up to activate the trailer brakes when you let go of the power switch. Two speeds. Slow and Slower. Ya gotta s as t least check them out. Cheers from Rick.

This looks attractive, thank you. But I noticed that Parkit360 states:
DO NOT OPERATE ON MORE THAN A 6% GRADE

I would have thought that the maximum grade depends on the trailer weight as compared to the dolly's capacity...

[Arnold R]

To summarize:
I should first repave my driveway (it's pretty old, with bumps and holes).
Then I have two options:
1. Backup, carefully, with the Ascent in X-mode
2. Get myself a motorized dolly


The dolly presents a bit of a problem. The Parkit360 dollies look nice, but have a maximum incline of 6 degrees. That doesn't work for me.


Considering that I am not prepared to go for the 4 k$ solution, I see two alternative options: TRAX TX6000 or Purple Line Quattro.
Does anyone have experience with either of those?
Or maybe I should make that a new thread...


Thank you all for your help and insights!

[EJH]

Originally Posted by Arnold R

To summarize:
The dolly presents a bit of a problem. The Parkit360 dollies look nice, but have a maximum incline of 6 degrees. That doesn't work for me.


Considering that I am not prepared to go for the 4 k$ solution, I see two alternative options: TRAX TX6000 or Purple Line Quattro.
Does anyone have experience with either of those?

I have the Trax6000. It is great. However, the 10% incline they quote is under ideal conditions. I cannot back up that grade on my driveway incline. I use my truck to get the trailer most of the way up, then attached the dolly to position on the side of my house. My trailer is 4k empty, 5k gross. If yours is lighter, then you may be better than me.



Message me for more details.

[jayconorthpoint18]

Backing a trailer up hill is somewhat difficult, especially if one has to make turns into a trailer space. I prefer pull throughs myself.

Now, the reverse gears in the transmission are
heating up. When a transmission goes out I’m told, the reverse gear goes out first.

One could use the 4WD mode to back trailers up hill if they have it.