Calling all X17Z owners

schmittychris · 04-12-2016, 02:57 PM

What do you tow your hybrid with? We almost made the mistake of purchasing the X17Z, but after a little research we're glad we didn't. I can't figure out why Jayco makes this model. The GVWR on it is 3,500#s. However, the tongue weight is 400#s. Sure most TVs may be able to pull it but our's (a 2011 Xterra Pro 4X) didn't have the available payload capacity for the tongue weight even with a WD hitch. That's dry, without LP and batteries. No cargo. Many people are weighing the X17Z in real life around 450#s dry at the tongue. Add 40#s of LP and a battery and you're well over 500#s. I doubt many TVs that this hybrid is marketed and sold to have the payload capacity and many of you are running around way over your GVWR for your TV. That's a scary thought to me.

Not to mention, who only has 400#s of cargo? 400#s that you can't even load into it because it adds to the tongue weight (there's really not much storage space behind the axle). Anything less than a 1/2 ton pickup with this hybrid and you're really asking for trouble. But if you had a 1/2 ton why would you want this hybrid? When I sat down and did calcs, the lowest I could get the load of the X17Z with WD on the TV with 400#s of cargo was 550#s. Then you do the math for tongue weight (assuming the trailer fully loaded) and it's over 15% of the trailer weight. That's assuming my assumptions on weights and distances from the TT axle are close to correct. The trailer could easily be well over 20% tongue weight.

I guess I'm confused as to why people own the X17Z? Do you not know what your payload capacity is? Do you not calculate your tongue weight, payload and cargo? Did you just trust your dealer that your TV could tow it? There's just so little room for error with this TT.

My dealer had said that he's sold several of these to people with mini vans. When I've gone to look up the stats on those vehicles they didn't have the payload capacity for this TT. They could tow the 3,500#s but they couldn't handle the payload that this TT would put on the vehicle. When I sat down and did the math for him he was astounded. They had never done an analysis of the TV like that (also scary) and had really only worried about the TT GVWR. Said

I haven't even gotten into issues with loading the TV and the TT at over 90% of the axle ratings. If it's a short trip and you're only putting a couple hundred miles on it a year then fine, maybe, but I know I wouldn't be. I'm sure most of you aren't as well.

DocBrown · 04-12-2016, 03:20 PM

There are lots of reasons people want and have this trailer. The first being that not every needs to take their entire house with them camping. We had an '03 Jayco Kiwi 17a, the ancestor of the X17Z. We had that trailer for 10 years. During that time I towed it with a mini-van, a Suburban, and a Trailblazer. We took it on a nearly 6k mile from Milwaukee to Monterrey, CA and back. We took it to Yellowstone on a separate trip.

Granted, my CC was higher than the X17Z because it was only a 7ft wide trailer. Even then I don't think it was more than 650# after options were installed. We weighed all our "stuff", it was about 350#, includes clothes, not food, never water. We hauled bikes in the trailer too on many trips. Keep in mind that often it was 3 adults.

More over, I knew exactly what I was doing, and what my numbers were towing with the mini-van. We never felt the need to have a bigger trailer even when we had the bigger tow vehicles. Only got a bigger trailer because we were in the market to replace the old one. Again, we had it for 10 years.

schmittychris · 04-12-2016, 03:33 PM

So the Kiwi 17 was more likely the predecessor of the 16xrb Jayfeather7. This I can see. It has a tongue weight of only 285#s and a cargo capacity of 655#s. The tongue weight of that model makes complete sense with a lighter TV with a 3,500# tow capacity. The X17Z is the 8' model and has a tongue weight of 400#s. A CCC of only 400#s. Also, your tow vehicles (besides maybe the mini van) could easily handle the higher payload.

jsims · 04-13-2016, 06:59 AM

We have this trailer and it has been perfect for our family. I currently tow this trailer with our Tacoma. We really guzzle the gas (10mpg on average) but, this sounds pretty average even with the bigger TV/TT combinations.

We have been camping on the west side of the cascades here in Washington and we have our first trip to Leavenworth coming up in a few weeks, this will be our first tow over the pass, so I am sure it will be slow going. I find that I get the best mileage and performance if I keep my speed between 55 and 60 on the freeway.

In all we are very happy with our purchase and truly that is all that matters at the end of the day.

Edit: Since this is our first trip going over the pass, I do have plans to hit the CAT scales on our way out of town. I am excited to see what our actual numbers are...

DocBrown · 04-13-2016, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schmittychris

So the Kiwi 17 was more likely the predecessor of the 16xrb Jayfeather7.

Actually no. The Jayfeather 7 line is a fairly recent model line, only in the last year or 2. Not to be confused with the "Jayfeather" line (no "7"). The Kiwi 17a had a completely different floor plan than the 16xrb has. The 2015 and earlier X17A's floor plan was almost identical to our old '03 17a. Also note the similar model numbers.

Also for clarity the Jayfeather line used to be called "Kiwi". Jayco got sued by Kiwi Shoe Polish for trademark infringement. Jayco was going to fight it (who would mistake travel trailers for shoe polish?), but gave in before it went to court. Shame because I liked the Kiwi name better.

Jopopsy · 04-13-2016, 08:14 AM

I'm sorta with the OP on this one. I had a X17z - its how I learned the hard/expensive way about CCC and payload.

I agree, people see all the cabinets and what not in the camper and assume they can fill them with stuff. The X19h is really where Jayco should start. Just my 2 cents.

Jm9301 · 04-13-2016, 08:58 AM

Heres my opinion for what its worth.

We recently looked at more trailers then my mind can comprehend, from the local rv show to visiting every single lot within driving distance and looked at all the models we possibly could in the "Lightweight range"

After looking at used units we decided new was the way to go for us, and we really perfered the Jaycos, this left the 16xrb, x17z and 174BH.

The BH was nice but on a rainy day it just didn't fit the bill of comfortable fitting all 4 of us for a board game.

Leave the 16xrb and x17z, We looked at both in succession side by side at the dealer and while the extra width was nice (it did not feel even close to a full foot) we went with the 16xrb. Heres why....

Cargo capacity: my 16xrb yellow sticker is 2932 lb's, the x17z was around 3200. 2932 left us room for battery / propane and plenty extra for what we need camping, 3200 was pushing it beyond my comfort zone.

Towing : the sliver of extra width may not make a huge difference, but with my current tow vehicle getting up in age i didn't want to push it.

Storage : for the 7 months of the year we are allowed to, the trailer will be parked in my driveway when not in use, we have a 16 foot wide by ~20 deep driveway and i want to keep two vehicles in it comfortably.

Price : the price difference at my dealer was $2800

Tank sizes : the 17z had 2 gallons less for the freshwater tank and a slightly bigger grey water tank.

Now for what i missed out on getting the 16xrb

Oven : Sure i would likely not often use it, but its always nice to have an extra appliance

Beds : seemed a little more spacious

Thats about it.

I agree with the above posts, the cargo carrying capacity is a Huge issue. Sure you are packing light anyways in a small trailer like this, but that is a bit much. Likely you would never have a problem going over the weight by a bit, but i for one would not risk that at all.

schmittychris · 04-13-2016, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocBrown

Actually no. The Jayfeather 7 line is a fairly recent model line, only in the last year or 2. Not to be confused with the "Jayfeather" line (no "7"). The Kiwi 17a had a completely different floor plan than the 16xrb has. The 2015 and earlier X17A's floor plan was almost identical to our old '03 17a. Also note the similar model numbers.

Also for clarity the Jayfeather line used to be called "Kiwi". Jayco got sued by Kiwi Shoe Polish for trademark infringement. Jayco was going to fight it (who would mistake travel trailers for shoe polish?), but gave in before it went to court. Shame because I liked the Kiwi name better.

The floor plans of the 16XRB and the X17Z are near identical to the point that when we were looking at them we had a hard time remembering which one we were in. The only real difference is that the 16XRB is 7' wide (jayfeather 7), like you said your kiwi was. So if you're comparing your 7' kiwi to the 8' X17Z, it was probably more comparable (in hitch weight and CCC) to the 16XRB.

That being said, I looked up the stats on the X17A and the floorplan is very different from the X17Z. The hitch weight of the X17A is a mere 260#s and a CC of 720#s. If they still sold that model we would have gotten that. Hands down no questions asked. That is a great model. The X17Z and X19H however are horrible for the cars they're marketed for. A Tundra no problem. The Tundra can handle the tongue weight and have available capacity for stuff in the back. So if you reach your GVWR for the TT you can throw stuff in the Tundra. No problem. Plenty of available payload. The X17Z is not marketed for people that have a Tundra though. It's marketed for people with V6 SUV's and minivans. Most of those don't have the available payload for the ridiculous tongue weight of that TT.

go wild · 04-13-2016, 11:49 AM

I tow mine with a 2007 Jeep Commander hemi with tow package. GVWR 6150, curb wt 4800, payload 1350. Tongue limit is 720 with class 4 hitch and gross trailer weight is 7200. Use a 600/6000 Equalizer WDH and Prodigy 2. Had no issues towing.

DocBrown · 04-13-2016, 11:50 AM

My bad, you said X17Z in your OP, I simply read it as 17a. I was comparing to the X17a. I didn't even realize they dropped the X17a for this year. Surprising because I thought it was a pretty popular model, and IMO, a better floor plan.

schmittychris · 04-13-2016, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by go wild

I tow mine with a 2007 Jeep Commander hemi with tow package. GVWR 6150, curb wt 4800, payload 1350. Tongue limit is 720 with class 4 hitch and gross trailer weight is 7200. Use a 600/6000 Equalizer WDH and Prodigy 2. Had no issues towing.

This makes sense as you have extra payload in the vehicle if you reach your 400# CCC limit for the TT. However, my Xterra has a GVWR of 5,400 and a curb weight of 4,425. By the time I load up the family I don't have the available capacity for the TT not to mention any cargo. I can't believe they almost let me roll off the lot with this thing.

schmittychris · 04-13-2016, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsims

We have this trailer and it has been perfect for our family. I currently tow this trailer with our Tacoma. We really guzzle the gas (10mpg on average) but, this sounds pretty average even with the bigger TV/TT combinations.

We have been camping on the west side of the cascades here in Washington and we have our first trip to Leavenworth coming up in a few weeks, this will be our first tow over the pass, so I am sure it will be slow going. I find that I get the best mileage and performance if I keep my speed between 55 and 60 on the freeway.

In all we are very happy with our purchase and truly that is all that matters at the end of the day.

Edit: Since this is our first trip going over the pass, I do have plans to hit the CAT scales on our way out of town. I am excited to see what our actual numbers are...

At first I thought you had said Tundra. Now I realize it's a Tacoma. You've got to be careful. Your GVWR is 5,600#s and your curb weight is 4,445#s. A family of 4 and the trailer loaded and you could be well over your GVWR. Likely as is you're over 95% GVWR.

schmittychris · 04-13-2016, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocBrown

My bad, you said X17Z in your OP, I simply read it as 17a. I was comparing to the X17a. I didn't even realize they dropped the X17a for this year. Surprising because I thought it was a pretty popular model, and IMO, a better floor plan.

I agree. I shouldn't have looked it up because it would have been perfect and now I'm sad they don't make it any more.

Jm9301 · 04-13-2016, 04:01 PM

I also just looked up the X17a and i am mildly frustrated, it likely would have swayed us over the 16xrb.

Oh well, at least i got the sweet vinyl job instead of the drab one!

jsims · 04-13-2016, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schmittychris

At first I thought you had said Tundra. Now I realize it's a Tacoma. You've got to be careful. Your GVWR is 5,600#s and your curb weight is 4,445#s. A family of 4 and the trailer loaded and you could be well over your GVWR. Likely as is you're over 95% GVWR.

You are correct, when I did the numbers starting out I was at 92.3% GVWR and 77% GCVWR with our family of 4 all loaded up. The true test will be when I hit the CAT scales and can get my actual weights on the 3 platforms here in another week.

greobr33 · 04-18-2016, 02:37 PM

We towed ours with a '05 Honda Pilot for years. +3000 mile trips twice and never had any issues. It was rated at #1500 cargo and #3500 tow. The cargo was in addition to 4 adults and luggage as stated by Honda. However, they don't rate that way anymore. As a note, I think Toyota is the only one that rates to a SAE standard for SUVs.

Either way, you need to load and drive to see what you are comfortable with even after crunching the numbers. Vehicle and trailer ratings have safety factors built-in so I have no problem towing at +95% ratings. Keep the air proper in the trailer tires and keep it at 65 or under. I have found that keeps may problems from happening.

We just got a '15 Acadia so in the next month or so I will hit the scales again to verify where I am at. We have a +3200 mile trip in August.

Pomacanthus · 04-18-2016, 05:51 PM

04 Nissan Titan no issues here. Im flabbergasted by people who are right on the cusp of towing limits and forge on. Everything in my experience in somewhat underrated (see VW). I always always always overestimate towing issues, most transmissions these days are marginal at best in my opinion, without a transmission cooler on a borderline SUV your asking for trouble and you better make dang sure the previous owner (if applicable) did the regular scheduled tranny flush. Maybe its just midwestern but in my experience there are lots of people skipping this because its an added expense and they don't tow, they are not thinking about you because you haven't purchased their car yet lol.

I love my 17 so far I understand I can load it down, I appreciate this forum because I probably wouldnt have thought much about weight, we had our popup loaded to the gills with 2 young boys. So Paperplates and cups it is!

PS Ive carried #2400 lbs of wood pellets 4x in the back of my Titan and never broke a spring, but it did have the dirty diaper

Was only 5 miles to home from Menards, those Titans are tough

Pomacanthus · 04-18-2016, 05:52 PM

oops "can't load it down"

schmittychris · 04-18-2016, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pomacanthus

04 Nissan Titan no issues here. Im flabbergasted by people who are right on the cusp of towing limits and forge on. Everything in my experience in somewhat underrated (see VW). I always always always overestimate towing issues, most transmissions these days are marginal at best in my opinion, without a transmission cooler on a borderline SUV your asking for trouble and you better make dang sure the previous owner (if applicable) did the regular scheduled tranny flush. Maybe its just midwestern but in my experience there are lots of people skipping this because its an added expense and they don't tow, they are not thinking about you because you haven't purchased their car yet lol.

I love my 17 so far I understand I can load it down, I appreciate this forum because I probably wouldnt have thought much about weight, we had our popup loaded to the gills with 2 young boys. So Paperplates and cups it is!

PS Ive carried #2400 lbs of wood pellets 4x in the back of my Titan and never broke a spring, but it did have the dirty diaper

Was only 5 miles to home from Menards, those Titans are tough

A Titan shouldn't even notice the X17Z when towing really. They are tough. Also, if you max out the ccc of the trailer you've got plenty of payload in the truck for more gear. I'll never understand why people push the limits either.

When I was shopping I didn't know much about towing. All I was worried about was the towing capacity. I had no idea about the payload and gvcwr. I can't believe the dealer was going to let me roll off the lot with that 17. We picked up our 174BH today and the owner told us that we're going to be sad because the X17Z was the perfect trailer for us. We almost walked out. I couldn't believe it. After I educated the sales manager on towing weights they still had the nerve to say that my xterra could tow the X17Z safely. I was stunned. People with my vehicle are what that trailer was marketed towards though.

Tomsuver · 04-19-2016, 06:21 AM

I tow it with a 14 tundra. Used to have a 2001 Nissan and when I first towed it with that I heard noises I have never heard before coming out of that vehicle. Now I believe that the x17z is also not meant to be towed by a smaller SUV. But we were going to upgrade anyways. Now lack of storage yes I agree and load capacity is low. But there are plenty of options. We use paper plates and cups. We don't take to many toys for kids. We love it for traveling. It's easy to tow. Only this I miss is a slide out for the rainy days. Would make it more comfortable inside but then we all have rain gears so we suit up and go out.

You may also like: