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Old 04-13-2024, 06:12 PM   #1
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Lithium battery for x17z

I have a 2021 x17z and was wondering whether anyone had replaced the deep cycle lead acid battery by LiFePO4 lithium battery.
It seems like an attractive idea because of the lower weight, but does the trailer's charging converter's profile fit a lithium battery?
Any suggestions about brands? It looks like they are now available in the $200-250 price range.
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Old 04-13-2024, 07:29 PM   #2
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Search your converter for model and then the literature/manual for mention of lithium compatibility, either on-line or in your camper literature bag.

I bought a no-frills, LiTime brand, 100ah lithium with BMS a few weeks ago on Amazon for $229. Watch the prices, they go up and down a lot. IT's a group 24 size (so it fits in your battery box) It's really lightweight and a pleasure, vs that lead acid dinosaur.

The LiTime brand has been shown to have dependable build quality while still being an economy-priced lithium battery.
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Old 04-14-2024, 05:48 AM   #3
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I have 300ah of Renogy LI smart batteries, verify if your converter has a Lithium setting, as mine is a 2018 the converter was just a standard one, so it would not be able to fully charge the Li batteries, so I decided to upgrade the converter, over charging with a separate charger, and constantly disconnecting and reconnecting to the trailer harness.

With my setup the longest I have gone so far, just water pump, lighting, fan running all night ( as to drown out other campers who wake up, and start making noise way to early for me, lol) is 11 days, batteries were down to exactly 20%. Most probably will not push them to those limits again but it was one of the first trips after the swap, and i wanted to see how far I could push them.

I mostly camp in spots that have no electric hook ups, if you always camp where power is available, then to be honest, I personally do not think Lithium is needed.
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Old 04-14-2024, 10:42 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKyle View Post
Search your converter for model and then the literature/manual for mention of lithium compatibility, either on-line or in your camper literature bag.

I bought a no-frills, LiTime brand, 100ah lithium with BMS a few weeks ago on Amazon for $229. Watch the prices, they go up and down a lot. IT's a group 24 size (so it fits in your battery box) It's really lightweight and a pleasure, vs that lead acid dinosaur.

The LiTime brand has been shown to have dependable build quality while still being an economy-priced lithium battery.
Thank you!


Hm, my WF 8700 P series converter does not say it is lithium compatible.
If I understand the issue correctly, it would not charge the battery to 100%.
Would I really care if I am continuously plugged into either shore power of TV's 12V?
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Old 04-14-2024, 11:29 AM   #5
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To be honest if you always have shore power or are plugged into the TV, stick with a decent deep cycle battery, and spend the extra $ on something else .

Lithium batteries charge and hold a slightly higher voltage than old school batteries, so problem 1 is that when you are hooked up to the TV , after the alternator has stabilized, the Lithium battery will start to backfeed your TV battery , so depending how far you go you could possibly deplete a good amount of capacity ( but if when you get to camp you always plug into shore power not a big deal).

Problem 2 is that you are 100% relying on just the battery BMS to not damage your battery when charging, because the charger is not compatible .

I mean in the end it is up to you, but Lithiums are more suitable for boondock style camping, when there is no available electricity, and you do not want to run a generator every day. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 04-14-2024, 09:32 PM   #6
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You are absolutely right and maybe I should drop this idea.

The problem is simply that I really want to reduce the tongue weight. The x17z axle is really a bit too far to the back, resulting in a high tongue weight, with three heavy components up front: propane cylinders, battery, and spare tire. That makes it hard to drive the tongue weight below 500 lbs.
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Old 05-19-2024, 09:45 AM   #7
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I am reconsidering, since I realized that there is space for a lithium battery in cabinet against the back wall. But have a few questions.

A (very helpful) person from WFCO told me that I need to replace my WF8735P converter with a WF8735AD, which makes perfect sense. But she said my current converter would only charge the Li battery up to 85%. Do I care if I am on shore power?
The Li battery puts out a higher voltage. Would that affect anything in the camper (lights, jack, etc) negatively?
Someone warned that the higher voltage could start charging the TV battery while towing, thereby draining itself. Isn't there a diode somewhere in between, preventing that?
Yes, financially, the switch doesn't make sense for me,since I am usually on shore power, but it does get my tongue weight down
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Old 05-19-2024, 10:53 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold R View Post
I am reconsidering, since I realized that there is space for a lithium battery in cabinet against the back wall. But have a few questions.

A (very helpful) person from WFCO told me that I need to replace my WF8735P converter with a WF8735AD, which makes perfect sense. But she said my current converter would only charge the Li battery up to 85%. Do I care if I am on shore power?
The Li battery puts out a higher voltage. Would that affect anything in the camper (lights, jack, etc) negatively?
Someone warned that the higher voltage could start charging the TV battery while towing, thereby draining itself. Isn't there a diode somewhere in between, preventing that?
Yes, financially, the switch doesn't make sense for me,since I am usually on shore power, but it does get my tongue weight down
Points to know.

It is common to hear that a standard converter will charge a LifePo4 only to ~85% which is not completely correct. A LifePo4 battery can reach 100% charge at any voltage at or over around 13.6v. What happens though is that it is common for a LifePo4 not to get to 100% (without a LifePo4 specific converter) because of shore power disconnects and travel (lack of time to reach 100%), however if you stay connected to shore power for a few days the battery will reach 100% with most converters, otherwise it is common to see 85~90% as non-LI converters taper off the current often around 13.6v (so knowing the charge profile of any converter would be good to know).

Also, unlike lead acid (LA) and agm batteries, there is no requirement for a LifePo4 battery's longevity that the battery ever reach or stay fully charged. In fact they will last longer if you only ever charge them to ~85% anyway. I will add the caveat that some LifePo4's need a ~14.4 volt charge once in a while (perhaps twice a year) to balance the internal cells. Although, many of the LifePo4's actually maintain an active balance via the bms regardless of ever reaching 14.4v. Seeing how that may be hard to know, I would suggest once in a while fully charging a LifePo4 once in a while anyway.

Because the resting voltage of a LifePo4 is commonly around ~13.5v (+or- ~.1) the batteries will not backfeed any significant amount back to the tow vehicle, not enough to cause any damage. However, you don't want to leave connected your RV's LifePo4 battery to your tow vehicle (LA battery) for any extended period of time (such as overnight or longer) as there is a resting voltage difference. This difference isn't mitigated by having a LifePo4 converter in your RV as the output of them is commonly ~14.5 (+or- .1) which is higher than what you want for your tow vehicle's LA battery anyway so you don't want to stay connected (trailer connector plugged in) even if the RV is on shore power and you have a LifePo4 (~14.5v) converter installed.

So with whatever choice you make, it would be a good idea to disconnect the trailer connecter for any overnight or longer stay as the standard connection from the tow vehicle to the RV does not include any diodes or disconnect relays (which could be added though), in fact even if your RV has a lead acid battery just like the truck, disconnecting the trailer connecter for overnight or longer periods is still needed (when not on shore power) as running 12v all night long in the RV could drain both the RV and Truck's battery leaving you in a situation where the truck battery is too low to start the truck. None of this is a big issue for motorhomes though as there is a disconnect relay that prevents draining the starting battery into the coach whenever the key is off (or vice versa). ~CA
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Old 05-19-2024, 01:29 PM   #9
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I moved my lithium into the under bed area and dropped my weight in half. I had not installed solar and found my 100 Amp Lithium charged to 80% right away and slowly went up to nearly 100% over 3 days with an old style system. Now with 200 watts of Renogy solar, a Renogy MPPT and my 100 Amp Renogy battery I have stopped using the built in and turned it off with my breaker.

I do like the Renogy bluetooth on my battery and MPPT so I can check my battery level and solar input any time I want. Plus I like the Renogy warranty on the battery.
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