New to Hybrid need some advice.....

Jim101 · 08-28-2013, 06:41 PM

To all,

We have been campers since 1978, started with tents, (4) PUP's, (1) TT and just sold our 29ft. class "C".......So, next is a Hybrid. We are looking at a new Jayco X23b OR X20E. There are only the two of us, and I will be getting a new TV for it.
Now, what are your likes/dislikes about there two? Will I need an Equalizer Hitch? What size TV would you recommend? Brand as well..

Thanks,

Jim

Mainenebula · 08-28-2013, 08:32 PM

I have the x20e and love it. Looked at the 23 but it was just more space than I needed. I often camp alone BUT also have 5 daughters so any combo of them/friends might come along. Plenty of sleeping space with the bunk ends, the sofa and the dining space. I often just turtle and use the convertible sofa as my bed. My favorite aspect is the sofa. Great place to read or hang out when raining, etc. The biggest downside is the lack of kitchen counter space. No issue with storage space though.

So if I were to be using this for 2 people and planned to stay out a week at a time or travel around for a while i would choose the 23. If you mostly do weekends and the occasional week then the 20 is a good choice.

As for tv I can only state that my Toyota Sequoia is more than adequate. I would never tow without an Equilizer type hitch on an SUV or probably even 1/2 ton PU.

mitechie · 08-28-2013, 08:46 PM

If it was just the wife and I I'm not sure I'd go with a 2-bunk hybrid to be honest. The second bunk is a whole wall and you'll have to put it down to get some light in.

I've got the x23b and I love it for the space and storage. The extra cabinet space is significant. The few extra feet of awning would be nice as well imo.

I pull mine with a Touareg TDI. I do have a reese WD setup and agree it's required as the tongue weight on these things ends up being a lot more than the documented number. My last trip I was at #650.

In general I'd suggest a 1/2 ton pick up. As for brand, well pick the one you like. None of them would sweat too much over it. If you go with an SUV, then I'd be a lot more careful as the loaded weights push the limits of a lot of them.

Paulx213 · 08-28-2013, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitechie

If it was just the wife and I I'm not sure I'd go with a 2-bunk hybrid to be honest. The second bunk is a whole wall and you'll have to put it down to get some light in.

I've got the x23b and I love it for the space and storage. The extra cabinet space is significant. The few extra feet of awning would be nice as well imo.

I pull mine with a Touareg TDI. I do have a reese WD setup and agree it's required as the tongue weight on these things ends up being a lot more than the documented number. My last trip I was at #650.

In general I'd suggest a 1/2 ton pick up. As for brand, well pick the one you like. None of them would sweat too much over it. If you go with an SUV, then I'd be a lot more careful as the loaded weights push the limits of a lot of them.

How do you measure your tongue weight?

Jagiven · 08-28-2013, 09:56 PM

We have the 23B and it is a great trailer, and love it. Check out my signature line to see some of the modifications that I have done to make it ours. There are three of us and an occasional friend. Couple of the selling points for us, where; if we were just stopping for the night, if it was raining hard or at a rest stop to take a nap or even just to get something to eat we did not have to fully open up. The 23B has LOTs of counter and storage space.

Probably the only things I do not like is the awning, at the door end it ends right at the door so if you have the door open and there is a slight breeze from the nose of the HTT, the inside of the door will be wet, so you have to keep the door closed. I wish it came with 14” or larger tires, I really do not think larger rims will fit, but I have not measured yet.

My recommendation is go to the dealer, ditch the salesperson and sit in each trailer, dig through them and ponder where you would place all your stuff, and where and how would you get to your destination.

As for a hitch; I would pick out one with an integrated sway control. I have an Equalizer brand WDH, but I have also used the Reese Dual Cam with really good results.

As for a TV; make sure you pick one out that has plenty of reserve towing capacity, as the manufactures typically measure the towing capacity from an empty vehicle with a full tank of gas and just a 170 lb driver, with NO cargo of any type, which also will reduces your towing capacity.

mitechie · 08-29-2013, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paulx213

How do you measure your tongue weight?

I picked up a scale to sanity check things before we head out.

http://www.amazon.com/Sherline-LM100...sherline+scale

DocBrown · 08-29-2013, 07:59 AM

We have the X20E. It is our second Jayco hybrid. We love it. We had been looking at them for several years. Its about the max our Trailblazer can tow. What we like the best is the slide and the couch. It only goes out about a foot or so but man, what a difference it makes in floor space. There is lots and lots of storage. And a full bathroom. Our last hybrid had what is called a wet bath. VERY small. The X20E also has an ottoman that pulls out from the dinette and doubles as a storage cabinet. We often have 3 adults (myself, wife, and daughter) and we still have plenty of room in the X20E. When its just my wife and I, we use the back bed for storage, though since this trailer is a lot bigger than our old one, we really don't have a lot of loose stuff that needs a place to go.

There are only a few things we don't like, and the negatives are far outweighed by the positives. It only has a 10 ft awning. But after a couple of trips that hasn't been as big of a deal as I thought it would be. The wardrobe closet only holds a few jackets, though there is a lot of room on the floor of the closet. Our old '03 Kiwi 17a had a huge wardrobe for a small trailer. So we use the cabinets above the couch for folded clothes. Almost no counter space. Since we almost never cook inside we got an "RV" cutting board that has a non-slip mat and sits on the stove top. Problem solved. No drawers for utensils. We got creative with baskets in the pantry. Next year I'm going to make some sliding shelves in one of the pantry cabinets. The X20E doesn't have pass though storage. I would trade the ottoman for pass through storage.

We've looked at the X23B. Its really bigger than we need. What you do gain with the X23B over the X20E is counter space, an extra wardrobe closet, extra floor space, a 13ft awning, and pass through storage. If we had a couple of little kids at home yet the X23B would be ideal. One thing we don't like about the X23B is the location of the TV mount. Right above a counter top, where we would most likely have the coffee maker and other things that would be in the way of viewing. Not to mention splatter from coffee and food prep is probably not the best thing for electronics.

If you can go and look at them to compare that's the best thing you can do. Take your time, sit in each one and imagine how you'd use it.

As far as a tow vehicle goes, since you don't have one yet you are in an ideal position. Look for something that has a tow capacity of 6-7k. A half ton quad cab or extended PU is ideal for two people.

johnyQ · 08-29-2013, 11:08 AM

I also have a 23B, but travel with more people. We thought about a 20E, but in the end wanted a bit more space. One thing not mentioned yet that mattered to us is that the 23B also has a bigger fridge with a separate freezer.

MonkeyClaw · 08-29-2013, 12:02 PM

We have an X20E, but it's just two of us and two large-ish dogs (95 lb and 70 lb ridgebacks). We recently spent 3 weeks in it and it was fine for space. We took the legs off of the table and then set the table top in the back out of the way when camping. I really like the 23, but it was too much for our TV (an FJ Cruiser). I especially like the counter space and bigger fridge in the 23 but again, it was a little too big for our TV. We're planning another 2 weeks coming up.

IMO, if you can take the 23 you'll be happy. If you can only get the 20 for whatever reason, you'll also be happy.

Lurker · 08-30-2013, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonkeyClaw

We have an X20E, but it's just two of us and two large-ish dogs (95 lb and 70 lb ridgebacks). We recently spent 3 weeks in it and it was fine for space. We took the legs off of the table and then set the table top in the back out of the way when camping. I really like the 23, but it was too much for our TV (an FJ Cruiser). I especially like the counter space and bigger fridge in the 23 but again, it was a little too big for our TV. We're planning another 2 weeks coming up.

IMO, if you can take the 23 you'll be happy. If you can only get the 20 for whatever reason, you'll also be happy.

We have a 23b and really enjoy it, the size is perfect for us, but like several others said go to a dealership and look at them. As far as tow vehicle, I woudl suggest either a larger suv or a true half ton truck. I am using a F150 super crew with the ecoboost engine and it works great. I had a Honda Ridgeline and loved the suv (it really wasn't a truck) but didn't feel safe towing the trailer on the interstate.

Jim101 · 08-30-2013, 08:22 AM

Thanks for all the advice...We may just go with the X20 since there are only two of us going.....We have been to a jayco dealer here (Arkansas) and spent some time looking at the X20 and 23 model and like them...There is a big RV show in Dallas Sept 12 - 14 that we will be going to, that should have a better selection. I have been reading alot about the Rockwood Roo as well, even on this board and it seems that some people like them as much as the Jayco models.
The EQ for the hitch has me concerned, a number of years ago we had a 29 ft. TT that needed an EQ and after a number of trips and my bad back we got rid of that TT because of the EQ, it was a pain...What is the "break" point that you need an EQ for? Is it when the TW of the TT is more that the hitch on the turck or what??

Thanks again for all the help....

Jim

DocBrown · 08-30-2013, 09:41 AM

I'm not understanding something. EQ? Are you referring to an Equalizer hitch? If so, what was it about the hitch that caused you problems? Unless you get a 3/4 ton or 1 ton you almost certainly need a W/D hitch. Equalizer is just one brand. The "breaking point" for needing one is tongue weight. Know what tongue weight your TV can support. There are two ratings, dead weight, and with a w/d hitch. For example, my Trailblazer can support a dead hitch weight of 400 lbs, and a w/d t/w of 750. The X20E is going to have a t/w of 550 - 650 lbs depending on how you load it. The other factor is your suspension. Even if the tongue weight of my X20E was under 400 lbs, I'd still use the w/d hitch because the Trailblazer has a soft suspension. I just have a generic brand of spring bar hitch with 1k lb bars, but I don't find it difficult to use at all. Its takes me all of 3 minutes to unhitch.

Heady · 08-30-2013, 09:50 AM

We did similar to what you are doing now. Started at the RV show looking at all of the different makes (coming from the Popup world), Jayco was one of the first we looked at. As we went to the other manufactures, we kept comparing them back to the Jayco. When we got done with the show, it was decided that it was either a Jayco or a Roo, depending on which we could get the best deal on.

We then went to a Jayco dealer, had them open the range of Hybrids (17, 18, 19, 20 and 23) then we ditched the sales person so that we could go through all of them to compare / contrast. Our opinion:
x17b -- We liked it, but wanted the ability to turtle should we stop at a rest area / walmart / etc. Since we are both over 6' the dinette and couch were not long enough to be comfortable.
18' -- We liked the 3rd bed, however it took up a lot of wall space making the layout not work for us.
19' -- Had the same problem as the 17' with the inability to turtle comfortably.
x20e -- Really like the slide and the space it created, the dual axles, ability to have two sleep surfaces over 6' turtled. Very comfortable. Wasn't a fan of the table in the "U" shaped dinette -- made it difficult to slide around to sit or access the front bunk due to the limited height between the table and the seat. Was not a fan of the limited counter space or there being no drawer for utensils.
x23b -- Had all of the benefits of the 20' and resolved several of the negatives, however it also had a few negatives -- like TV placement, it being 3' longer and it exceeded the limits of my then current TV.

All in all, we picked the x20e and love it. We have been on several week long trips and it has worked out well. We don't use the dinette table, just collapse it and toss it up on the front bunk with our clothes. This opens up the floor plan amazingly well. The lack of counter space has not been too bad with the addition of the board over the stove (we don't cook in the TT). We put shelves in the wardrobe and use it for food storage. We have been shut-in a few days due to weather and it is very comfortable for one person to stretch out on the couch to read (there are reading lights above the couch) and the other to stretch out on the dinette seating. The shower in the x20e was not built for someone over 6', as you have to step up into it, causing you to be very close to the ceiling. I know that in some units they have a skylight here, which helps with this issue.

I had a Toyota Tacoma for a TV pulling the x20e. It did OK, but did struggle on inclines, high winds, etc. Short trips I was fine, but refused to go on any long trips due to some white knuckle incidents. I ended up trading the Tacoma for a Tundra and it's a world of difference. The Tundra has so much power that often times I don't even notice the trailer back there. Of course the downside with the Tundra is the gas mileage -- there are always trade off's. Would rather spend a little more in gas and feel safe.

If I knew that I was going to upgrade the TV to a Tundra, we probably would have gone with the x23b, however we have no regrets with the x20e.

Good luck with your search! Keep us posted on what you decide.

DocBrown · 08-30-2013, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadHunter

We don't use the dinette table, just collapse it and toss it up on the front bunk with our clothes. This opens up the floor plan amazingly well.

We've had "U" shaped dinettes on 3 trailers now, our old pop-up, our old 17ft hybrid, and the X20E. We agree, getting around that table is just a pain. We found long ago that taking the table and using it outside not only frees up floor space making the inside roomier, but it gives us a place to set things outside under the awning. Floor space in our 17ft hybrid was especially at a premium, but we still do it with the X20E.

Jim101 · 08-30-2013, 11:08 AM

Keadhuner,

Thanks for the comparison between all the models, I am 6'1" and need the room as well.....We are leaning to the X20, it has what we need. We had sometime ago a 29' TT with a Chev 2500HD for a TV the Equalizer hitch was, well a pain to put on and take off, the dealer said it would get easier as we used it, never did, then screwing up my back was the last straw.....Guess I can't avoid it. For a TV we are looking at an F-150 Eco which should meet all our needs including not-as-bad gas milage.
Docbrown: thanks for the hitch weight examples, now, what brand of spring bar are you using? I'm guessing from what you are saying all are a "little" different.

Thanks again,

Jim

DocBrown · 08-30-2013, 12:21 PM

Jim, I apologize but for the life of me I can't think of the brand name. Its really just a generic w/d hitch with standard spring bars. My sway control bar is a Reese friction type bar. I used this setup on my Kiwi 17a and was a little worried that it would not be adequate for the X20E. It works beautifully. I've never had anything else so I can't compare how easy they are. This might be a really question to ask you dealer. My dealer has some jigs setup to display the different w/d hitches and they can show people how to use them.

The hardest part of mine is cranking the dolly up to take the pressure off the bars. The bars, chains, and friction sway control bar all come off real easy. One thing I will warn you about is the ball latch on the tongue of the trailer. When its new its pretty stiff. The first few times I had a lot of trouble getting it to move and release the ball. Once it started loosening up it got real easy. But that wasn't until after 6 times or so of uncoupling it.

Heady · 08-30-2013, 02:10 PM

We have a Valley WDH on ours with the Reese friction Anti-sway bar. Works well.

We had the hand crank jack on the front -- it was quickly replaced with an electric jack.

glsimms · 08-31-2013, 07:24 AM

We use the Equalizer w/d hitch and with a power jack, hitching and unhitching is easy as can be.

Even the wife can do it!! :wink:

Jim101 · 09-01-2013, 07:33 AM

Thanks for the heop on an EQ....I was talking to a Jayco dealer yesterday about getting either an X20 or 23, and he said with a Ford F150 with air shocks I wouldn't need an EQ??? Getting confused about EQ's..

Jim

glsimms · 09-01-2013, 08:33 AM

I don't have any experience with air shocks, but I would still get the WDH for added insurance and peace of mind.......

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