What to get to tow with a Highlander

[bbkdea]

Hi everyone! We are looking to buy our first hybrid and we are fell in love with the Jayco X20E. However, we are thinking that maybe this is really beyond the capacity of our Highlander. What is the general opinion on this? We have thought about the 19xud, but we like some of the features that the Ultra gives over the SLX, mostly the tank capacities. We are also considering the X17Z but are not sure if there will be enough room to not feel claustrophobic. We are a family of four. Any help or advice would be great.

[RedHorse1]

A visit to the local CAT Scale will give you the rear axle weight. Compare that to the Rear GAWR. The difference is how much more weight you can add. A hitch weighs maybe 60-80#. Divide whatever remains by 0.15. That will give you an estimate of the heaviest TT you can pull. Keep in mind that the published TT weight is an empty TT. Our X23B got about 800# heavier after I loaded our "stuff".
The CAT Scale is your friend.

[oldmanAZ]

Welcome to the forum.... whatever unit you choose.

[robkelly]

Welcome!

[fielro]

Welcome to the forum
X2 on the cat scales

[bucko]

The easiest way to figure all this out is to either drive over to your local dealership, and talk with a sales or service manager to get the towing capacities for your vehicle.

Another way is to google it. I owned a Ford Ranger 4x4, and found the Ford pdf files on their site that listed the GVWR (Gross vehicle Weight Rating), the tongue weight, and vehicle weight. The pdf files also had a simple worksheet, asking what options were equipped on the vehicle, as certain options add additional weight to the vehicle doing the towing, so that adds to the total weight the vehicle can haul; itself and any cargo/trailer.

Don't forget a few other things: with a family of 4, the people, clothes, toys, bikes, and food will add up in weight. This all gets added into the maximum towing capacity equasion. So, you add this weight into the trailer weight, plus the vehicle weight, and that needs to be at or under the GVWR.

Also don't go over the tongue weight. You won't be using the bumper ball for this! Make sure you have a good frame hitch, and know what it's rating is.

One last thing; with everyone and everything hitched up and packed, will you be driving on flat roads, or combined flat and hilly roads? Do you have an automatic transmission? With a transmission cooler installed?

[DocBrown]

Welcome! You have a lot to think about here.

First thing first is your available payload. You can find your payload rating on a sticker in the driver side door jamb. With 4 people in the vehicle that's going to limit what you can tow. Sure, you may have a 5k# towing capacity, but if your payload is 900#, and your trailer weighs 4200#, then your tongue weight could be an average of 550#. Subtract that from 900#, and you have 350# left for your family and anything you carry in the vehicle. Not much room left, and at best, you'll be right at the edge of the overall capacity for that vehicle. I believe the Highlander actually has a pretty decent payload for a small SUV, but the door sticker will give you correct number.

Yes, people will tell you that you can tow the 19xud, or even the X20E, but it will not be a pleasant experience. You will most certainly be buying a new tow vehicle within 12-18 months. I am speaking from experience. I have twice made conscious decisions to tow very close to the rated capacities of my tow vehicles. Yes, it's doable. Yes, it can be done safely. Yes, there were "no problems". However, I have also towed the same trailers with vehicles that were better equipped to tow the trailers in question. I can tell you that there is a world of difference, that is it's far more pleasurable, towing a trailer with a vehicle that has plenty of reserve capacity.

The X17Z is probably more inline with what you can realistically, and comfortably tow. But as you said, you have concerns about the possible claustrophobic feel. That said, we camped for many years with 3 adults in a Kiwi 17A, the slightly smaller (7 ft wide) ancestor of the X17Z. Being that we spend most of our time outside it was fine, however, yes, there were times when it was tight. I could see 4 being a bit of a problem on rainy days, especially as the kids grow into their teens, if they aren't already. On the flip side, no matter what you do it's all about the memories.

Tough call, settle for a little less than you really want, or buy what you want knowing you'll end up replacing your Highlander in a relatively short period of time. Towing a trailer isn't cheap is it! But it's a lot of fun.

[Husker Red]

Good answer from DocBrown.


Short answer, No. I wouldn't pull it with a Highlander.


We have a 19H that I was pulling with my Mercedes ML320 diesel. The diesel had plenty of power/torque to pull the camper (which a 6 cyl highlander wouldn't match), but the suspension and transmission aren't really built for that. We took that combination on about 5 trips, but after pulling the camper up a mountain and smelling something burning I decided to trade the SUV before I burnt up a $7000 transmission. I got a f-250 super duty diesel and the difference is night and day. Now that I have a huge truck we keep thinking of upgrading the camper size!


If you are like me, you will probably ignore others advice and do it anyway which is cool. Life's an adventure! You will have an awesome time and it will work ok, although probably be a little white knuckle ride each time. Take it slow and easy and you'll survive.


DEFINITELY purchase a good load leveling hitch with sway control and have a professional set it up for you the first time. I didn't know what those were when I bought our camper but you need to learn. They are very important and can make the difference between a safe pleasant trip and a massive stressfest.


We'd like a bigger camper, but we keep telling ourselves that the point of camping (for us) is to get OUTSIDE, not sit in the camper.

[bbkdea]

Thank you everyone! We decided to go with the X17Z. After weighing all the information we had been given (pun intended), we decided that it was the best fit for our family at this time. We feel it would just be more relaxing not to stress about it all of the time.

With that being said, does anyone have any experience with the Prodigy RF brake control?

[go wild]

The Prodigy P2 and P3 are extremely popular. I have the P2 and it works great with the 17Z. The RF model is over $300 and the only real benefit is that the controller is mounted on the RV so you could use multiple tow vehicles to pull the RV.

I'd recommend a WDH with sway control like the 600/6000 Equalizer, it's works great for me.

What the tow specs don't tell you is the stress that you will be putting on the vehicle in real-life conditions when it's 90 degree F and you are towing on the interstate at 60 mph up a gradual incline with the air conditioner on and a 30mph cross wind with a fully loaded camper. A good brake controller, good WDH, heavy duty radiator, and tow package all help to make a more enjoyable towing experience.

[bbkdea]

We are struggling with understanding what we need to have done to our Highlander to get it ready for the trailer. We have the factory installed tow package, but no hitch. It seems like the two people we have talked to have given us conflicting information regarding the electrical work that is needed and no one seems to be able to just straight up tell us what needs to be done and how much it will cost. Does anyone have any advice?!?!

[bucko]

You are going to need a brake controller kit, and a 7 post connector by the hitch, and a good frame hitch itself. I purchased my controller and 7 post connector here:

Brake Controller 7- and 4-Way Installation Kit (ETBC7) | etrailer.com

You have a couple of choices as far as installation is concerned: have it installed by a professional such as U-haul (in your area) or comperable, or by the dealer that you are buying the camper from (unless this is a private camper purchase). For my first truck, I had the dealer I bought my camper from do it, and it cost me $150.00 (they quoted me $300.00 during the contract, but I negotiated this down). That included the controller and the 7 pin connector by the hitch, but the bracket was cheap; it always wanted to bend when connecting the plug from the trailer to the connector.

Now the fun part; there are two types of brake controllers: a "Proportional" and a "Time delayed". I prefer the Time delay, as I can adjust the controller for brake "feel" that suits me.

Proportional brake controller

With a proportional brake controller, you can get heavy-duty emergency braking, general braking, or slow-to-an-idle braking for your trailer automatically. The intensity with which your trailer brakes are activated and the rate at which they are applied are dependent on the deceleration of your tow vehicle. This means that, unlike time-delay controllers - which send the same amount of preset power to your trailer brakes every time - proportional controllers are able to adapt to every braking situation differently. So if you slam on the brakes in your truck, your trailer brakes will activate with the same extreme intensity. And if you merely slow down as you approach a red light, your trailer will gradually brake in the same manner.


Pros

• Smooth, quick braking
• Less wear on both vehicle and trailer brakes
• Increased braking efficiency

Cons

• More expensive than time-delayed controllers (though the cost difference between the 2 types has been decreasing)
• Not as easy to install as a time-delayed controller

Time delay Controller
A time-delayed brake controller applies your trailer's brakes when the brake pedal in your tow vehicle is engaged. Every time you apply the brakes in your tow vehicle, a signal is sent - via the brake switch - to the brake controller. The controller then sends power out to your trailer brakes to activate them with an intensity set by you, at a rate determined by you. Both the amount of braking power (output) and rate of application (sync) can be adjusted to suit your preference, the road conditions, type of trailer, and size of the load. To determine which levels are best for your application, you must test out your towing setup and choose what feels best.

A time-delay controller is so named because there is a delay between the time that you initially apply the brakes in your tow vehicle and the time that the controller reaches maximum power output. Unlike a proportional brake controller, which activates your trailer's brakes based on the deceleration of your tow vehicle, a time-delayed controller sends power out in the same way, with the same gradual delay, no matter the braking situation. Although this delay always exists, it can be adjusted by changing the sync setting.


A time-delayed brake controller doesn't rely on internal parts to sense braking motions of the tow vehicle. This allows you to mount the controller at any angle.


Most time-delayed brake controllers can allow the brakes to pulse on and off when the hazard flashers are activated and the brake controller is set aggressively. This happens because power from the brake lights can feed back into the brake controller. A pulse preventer can isolate the brake controller from the flashers and will eliminate this problem. Pulsing of the brakes when the hazard flashers are in use is not usually a problem for vehicles that have a different bulb for the stop and turn signals. You can usually identify a vehicle that has separate stop lights and turn signals because it will have amber turn signals.


Pros

• Easy to install - can be mounted at any angle
• User friendly
• Low profile

Cons

• Uneven brake wear between tow vehicle and trailer
• Chance of brake pulsing when hazard flashers are used

[DocBrown]

Originally Posted by bucko

[*]Not as easy to install as a time-delayed controller

I've had both types of controllers. They are both easy to install. The "issue" with not being able to install a proportional controller at an angle isn't really an issue, it's just something you take into account. Wiring for both is identical.

I'll also say that my Prodigy P2 is going on 10 years old, I never have to reset it except when I've changed tow vehicles or trailers. Once you adjust it, you're done. I will never go back to using a time delay type controller.

[bucko]

The use of a time delay verses a proportional controller is always going to be preference of the user, as well as location of the controller itself. Many mount them on their dash, pointing vertical, within easy reach to adjust, or press if/when they need to manually operate the trailer brakes. Others prefer to mount the controller horizontally in a dash 'pocket' if available. The important key is to be sure it's easily within reach of the driver. This location will depend on the vehicle, so this could be a variable in deciding which controller is best.

I think the OP is simply overwelmed with all the extra requirements they need in order to tow their travel trailer, as would anyone who is new to towing a large trailer with electric brakes. My intent was not to offer one over the other, but rather to provide information they could read and hopefully understand as to what brake controllers are for, what they do, and the types. The prices for each are now close, so that is no longer an issue.

Many folks simply allow the dealer they purchased the TT from to install the controller, its wiring, and the back 7 pin connector, as well as the tow hitch, and never really know what it all does, or understands its full operation. It's always best to realize your skillsets and tools required to do it yourself. I agree that its not a difficult job; you only have to be careful in how you route the wiring from the rear to the controller and vehicle battery. There is at least one relay required for the TT electric brakes which the controller "controls" (usually a blue wire), and possibly one additional 12 volt wire and seperate relay (usually a yellow wire) that is connected to an extra pin of the rear 7 pin connector. This additional 12 volt connection is an option, and the TT may or may not be wired for this. My ultra light was, and its the same model as what the OP purchased. So if the OP has the install and wiring done by someone else, they should inform them to provide this additional wiring for this pin.

The install requires 'common sense' as to its routing. Wiring should be clear of any suspension movement as to not scaff off the insulation, and kept away from heat. It should be tie wrapped as to not drag or touch any area that could damage the wiring.
For this reason, most folks simply don't wish to spend the time required under the vehicle to do this, and have it done by a professional.

[DocBrown]

Bucko you raise a point that many of us often forget, in that wiring for some vehicles needs to be done from scratch. With most late model trucks and full size SUVs the wiring is already there, you just need to find it and connect your brake controller. No so much with small SUVs, cars, or older trucks.

[Husker Red]

You've gotten some great information here already. I'll just repeat a little of it in my own language in case it helps you.


I have a proportional brake controller, the tekonsha P3. Very nice unit. I strongly prefer the proportional brake controller to the time delay unit, as I feel is gives much smoother braking. The proportional units still have a setting for how hard the brakes are applied, but it also senses how hard you are braking by using an accelerometer. If you are lightly riding the brakes to a stop light it lightly applies the trailer brakes. If you jam on the brakes in a panic stop it applies the full pressure you have set. The time delay version applies the brakes at your preset level anytime you press the brake pedal.


Either type of controller needs to be set by you so it matches the braking pressure to your load. The brake controller is just getting an "on" or "off" signal from your brake. When your trailer is hooked up and loaded you pull it up to about 30-40 mph and press the manual button on your brake controller unit. It then applies the set amount of braking pressure (voltage sent to the electric trailer brake.) Keep repeating that process and adding pressure until you lock up the trailer brakes, then back it off a couple notches. Now anytime you apply your brakes the controller will send that set amount of pressure to your trailer brakes.
I prefer the proportional controller because it will only send the full pressure when it senses you are braking hard, and less pressure for gentle stops. The time delay one will send the full amount you set anytime to apply the brakes, which makes for a little more jerky braking action from the trailer when you are gently slowing. You can turn down the pressure for a less jerky braking experience, but then you're not getting full braking potential in hard braking.


Wiring the controller is something you can probably do by yourself. It's easier than hooking up a car stereo. If you are lucky your toyota is already wired for the round style plug. Most pickups already are, but SUV's may not be. If you do have to do it from scratch, you just need to find and tie into your brake lights and run power and ground from your battery. My Mercedes was really a job because of the canbus system in it that senses any changes to voltage and sets off brake error codes. I needed a special box that fools the system. Your Toyota might be easier. I suggest checking it out at etrailer.com. That's a really great company that has a bunch of techs available and they really know their stuff. Prices are very good too.

Next, the weight distribution hitch. This is a sort of lever system that distributes the tongue weight of the trailer better across the frame of your truck. It's a little like if the trailer were holding the handles of a wheel-barrow, and that lifts the weight off the rear of your truck and puts it more to the front wheels. This levels out your truck and makes a major improvement in handling. You might have seen a tow vehicle with lots of weight on the hitch and the back end squatting down low. that totally screws up the steering, braking and balance of the whole system. Weight distribution hitches can't perform miracles, but they do make a major improvement. I have the Curt model which is about $325 on etrailer.com and it works fine. There are lots of other choices too.

Finally, there is a sway bar. Some weight distribution hitches have a built in sway control, but not all. On my curt unit it's a separate bar that attaches to a smaller ball the hitch and another on the trailer frame near the lp tanks. It is just a couple metal bars that you tighten together so the trailer and tow vehicle have more resistance to turning. Sort of a stabilizing arm. This helps keep the rig in a straight line going down the road. It reduces the amount of sway you get in winds and passing semis. Some of them need to be removed before you back up the trailer so it doesn't jam up if you turn tightly, but mine hasn't been a problem.

[bucko]

Originally Posted by DocBrown

Bucko you raise a point that many of us often forget, in that wiring for some vehicles needs to be done from scratch. With most late model trucks and full size SUVs the wiring is already there, you just need to find it and connect your brake controller. No so much with small SUVs, cars, or older trucks.

For sure, you speak the truth. My 2007 Ford F150 had an ebrake controller listed as a factory option, so I assumed that Ford had the wiring harnesses all there, tucked nicely away in the dash, and out back by the bumper; all I had to do was buy a controller and the connector for the back. Plug and play, with perhaps a harness adaptor for the controller to adapt to the factory harness.

Boy, was I wrong with that assumption! I ended up buying the kit and doing it all. Not complaining though, as I learned how it all went together, and therefore feel comfortable with it should I ever need to troubleshoot a fault with it.

[bucko]

This made me do a bit more research on this, as I was told proportional controllers require they be mounted in a vertical position. My truck did not provide me with a safe vertical location that was within easy reach if I needed to operate it manually. That should be a factor as to which type is purchased.

I found this for the Tekonsha Prodigy P2 Brake Controller as it pertains to its installation:

"As long as the P3 controller sits level on a horizontal plane and is pointed in the direction of travel, it will sense - via an internal inertia sensor - how your tow vehicle brakes.

If ever there is a time that you need to brake your trailer separately from your tow vehicle - when traveling down a steep incline, for example - the manual override lever is easily accessible. Pushing this lever engages the brakes on your trailer with full power. In addition, when you activate this override, the brake lights on your trailer will illuminate, properly warning those behind you of the braking action of your rig"

I won't deny that this is a great controller if you have a vertical location to mount it, and the driver can easily reach the manual override lever.

[bbkdea]

Thank you everyone for your help. My husband has taken the information and found someone who can do what needs to be done I think!

[bucko]

Great. let us know how it goes, and happy camping!