X17Z owner looking to upgrade to a 19”x” or the 23f

[AndyE2255]

Current x17z owner here. Wife and I have three daughters ages 9,8 and 6. We have plenty of sleeping space for the next few years, but storage is severely limited.

I started looking into getting a different camper and ran across the x19 series, which look like a stretched x17 with a ton more storage. Then I saw the x23f...wow.

My big question is, our current truck, which I bought just to tow our x17, is a 2003 Silverado 1500 extended cab, 2WD 5.3 V8. The 19 seems like it’d be comparable to towing to the 17 (no problem at all), but does anyone tow a 23 with a similar truck to mine?

I really lucked out with this truck, got it for a steal and it’s mechanically great, with all the big ticket repairs already done within the 5 years before I purchased it at 191k miles (202k now). The truck also came with a nice topper, which lessens the load we have to haul in the camper itself.

Thanks in advance!

Edit: I’m seeing a lot of people pulling 3000+ lbs campers with Traverses. Just so everyone knows, we pulled our old 1996 rockwood xl pop up with our 09 Acadia on three occasions. The third pull damn near ended the acadias life. Make sure you’ve got the tow package as, the way I understand it, the tow package includes a transmission cooler and a tow mode to change the shift points. We don’t have a tow package on ours and I was ignorant to what constitutes a “tow package”: I looked at the numbers and figured I could tow the pop up. I was dead wrong.

I’ll echo people who’ve posted that the older the vehicle, the less it can reliably and safely pull. I’d say we added 5 years worth of wear and problems on our Acadia. It was a full -on driveway queen for about 6 months while I fixed all sorts of problems.

[Jagiven]

Your current high mileage truck would not bother me to tow a camper, as long as it has been well maintained.

No matter what your TV is. Ultimately it is all about payload. You need to add up your weights and see where you are at;

• How heavy is the tongue weight of your TT (fully loaded gross vehicle weight times 15% for this calculation. Actual tongue weight should be between 10-15%, ideally 13-15% for safe handling)
• WDH weight
• The stuff added to the truck, aka non factory items such as topper, running boards, etc.
• All the stuff you have in the back of the truck
• Passenger weight, remember kids grow, their weight today will not be their weight in 6 months.
• Kids tend to bring entertainment and friends so consider this weight too.

A full tank of fuel already in the OEM calculation and on older trucks an "average sized driver of 150 pounds" is included in the payload calculation. Recently people have posted, that the driver has been removed from the payload calculation. I know my DW's new car is this way.

Now look at the yellow sticker on the driver's door frame. This will tell you the payload capacity for your truck as it came out of factory. Compare this number to your calculated payload. Where are you in comparison. Now think about your new TT, update your list (more room, probably will bring more stuff), and what is your expected new payload?

It seems most people like to be loaded no more than 80% of the recommended payload capacity, so they have wiggle room as things change.

Now that you have your list of weights, you know your actual payload and potential future payload (new TT). When you are considering a new TV, like that Traverse, keep those payload numbers handy. Look at the payload sticker on the door frame. Remember, one Traverse might be under capacity and the next might be just fine. It's all about how they are configured, out of the factory.

I tend to drive older vehicles. My current TV, is my only new vehicle I have ever purchased. I can really tell a difference between when it was new and now. The big item, the suspension is now softer. It is really easy to add things like an auxiliary transmission cooler, and suspension upgrades.

Good luck

[AndyE2255]

Sorry forgot to mention a couple of things:

My truck has a factory tow package. Tow mode and trans cooler so good to go there.

However, the yellow sticker is no longer there, and the manual is also gone lol. The white sticker lists the following. GVWR 6200, GVAW front 3600, GVAW rear 3686. I’ve no idea on the payload capacity or the actual towing capacity of this truck.

[bankr63]

Originally Posted by AndyE2255

Edit: I’m seeing a lot of people pulling 3000+ lbs campers with Traverses. Just so everyone knows, we pulled our old 1996 rockwood xl pop up with our 09 Acadia on three occasions. The third pull damn near ended the acadias life. Make sure you’ve got the tow package as, the way I understand it, the tow package includes a transmission cooler and a tow mode to change the shift points. We don’t have a tow package on ours and I was ignorant to what constitutes a “tow package”: I looked at the numbers and figured I could tow the pop up. I was dead wrong.

I’ll echo people who’ve posted that the older the vehicle, the less it can reliably and safely pull. I’d say we added 5 years worth of wear and problems on our Acadia. It was a full -on driveway queen for about 6 months while I fixed all sorts of problems.

With Acadia/Traverse the tow package is mandatory to get to the tow rating for the vehicle as it also includes additional bracing in the rear for strength. Easy to see by dropping the spare tire; the bracing runs across the top of the spare compartment.

I did love our Traverse and it was a fine tow vehicle for our X19H. I was near the limits but regularly CAT scaled, and was not over. When we bought it the vehicle was near the top of the ratings for a major consumer publication which was a big factor for me, but its reliability scores dropped like a rock. Even though it maintained the best road test score in the category for years, it sucked for quality.

I don't think towing led to any of my maintenance woes as the problems I experienced weren't related to towing. Power steering rack (twice), AC replacement, early exhaust failure (could be towing). It was the maintenance headaches that caused me to dump it, but I don't blame towing.

Your half-ton should be up to towing either one of these trailers. They are both under 5000# GVWR and would run around 700# in loaded tongue weight. Since you have the GVWR, just run through a CAT scale mostly empty to find out what your payload is. I would also look up your VIN online to get an idea (I think the payload comes up on the Ford VIN finder?)

I do worry about your statement of putting more gear into the back of the truck than the trailer. Every pound in the truck is a pound less tongue weight you can take; you can pretty quickly get to the point where you can't tow that trailer anymore, especially with 3 (growing!) kids in the truck. That same pound in the trailer adds about 2 ounces in tongue weight. Keep in mind that both of these trailers will have a higher CCC than your 17Z so you should be able to load more back there.

Not sure what the current 2021 year figures are (Jayco shows TBD on all of these), but for 2011 the 17Z had 505# CCC, the 23B 780# CCC, and the 19H 1335#. The two larger ones have the same frame spec, but the 23B is heavier, so less cargo. If gear is your goal, the 19H is great, and it does have a TON of storage (we have yet to come near to running out of space.) But on rainy days I often wish for the 23B as there is a lot more living space thanks to the slide. 5 people will get very tight inside a 19H if you are forced inside for a day. Our regular camp kit runs around 1000#, so the 23B would require some pruning.

ETA: Sorry! was looking at the 23B. The 23F wasn't around very long (started sometime after 2011 and was gone in 2017). The numbers there are GVWR 5995 (about 1000# more than the 23B) and CCC of 1670, so pretty substantial. Not too bad for storage cabinets from the looks of the floor plan.

[AndyE2255]

Originally Posted by bankr63

With Acadia/Traverse the tow package is mandatory to get to the tow rating for the vehicle as it also includes additional bracing in the rear for strength. Easy to see by dropping the spare tire; the bracing runs across the top of the spare compartment.

I did love our Traverse and it was a fine tow vehicle for our X19H. I was near the limits but regularly CAT scaled, and was not over. When we bought it the vehicle was near the top of the ratings for a major consumer publication which was a big factor for me, but its reliability scores dropped like a rock. Even though it maintained the best road test score in the category for years, it sucked for quality.

I don't think towing led to any of my maintenance woes as the problems I experienced weren't related to towing. Power steering rack (twice), AC replacement, early exhaust failure (could be towing). It was the maintenance headaches that caused me to dump it, but I don't blame towing.

Your half-ton should be up to towing either one of these trailers. They are both under 5000# GVWR and would run around 700# in loaded tongue weight. Since you have the GVWR, just run through a CAT scale mostly empty to find out what your payload is. I would also look up your VIN online to get an idea (I think the payload comes up on the Ford VIN finder?)

I do worry about your statement of putting more gear into the back of the truck than the trailer. Every pound in the truck is a pound less tongue weight you can take; you can pretty quickly get to the point where you can't tow that trailer anymore, especially with 3 (growing!) kids in the truck. That same pound in the trailer adds about 2 ounces in tongue weight. Keep in mind that both of these trailers will have a higher CCC than your 17Z so you should be able to load more back there.

Not sure what the current 2021 year figures are (Jayco shows TBD on all of these), but for 2011 the 17Z had 505# CCC, the 23B 780# CCC, and the 19H 1335#. The two larger ones have the same frame spec, but the 23B is heavier, so less cargo. If gear is your goal, the 19H is great, and it does have a TON of storage (we have yet to come near to running out of space.) But on rainy days I often wish for the 23B as there is a lot more living space thanks to the slide. 5 people will get very tight inside a 19H if you are forced inside for a day. Our regular camp kit runs around 1000#, so the 23B would require some pruning.

ETA: Sorry! was looking at the 23B. The 23F wasn't around very long (started sometime after 2011 and was gone in 2017). The numbers there are GVWR 5995 (about 1000# more than the 23B) and CCC of 1670, so pretty substantial. Not too bad for storage cabinets from the looks of the floor plan.

Yeah sorry, wasn’t talking down the Lambda platform vehicles, just putting that out there for less experienced people. Your exhaust failed too huh? I really won’t miss the Acadia when it’s gone lol. Cats (mechanic said towing could have contributed a lot to that), fuel injectors, 3-5-R wave plate (thank god gmc extended the warranty on that, saved us about $7k when that happened), and I don’t even know how many sets of headlights I’ve had to replace. Among countless other issues. The fact that there’s little room to work under the hood just makes even routine stuff like spark plugs a tedious exercise.

On topic, I was liking the 23F but my wife actually likes the 23B. I think our girls definitely have a room to grow in that one so I’m all good with it.

Great idea in the scale, too. Gonna give that a go soon.

Thanks!!

[Jagiven]

Originally Posted by AndyE2255

Sorry forgot to mention a couple of things:

My truck has a factory tow package. Tow mode and trans cooler so good to go there.

However, the yellow sticker is no longer there, and the manual is also gone lol. The white sticker lists the following. GVWR 6200, GVAW front 3600, GVAW rear 3686. I’ve no idea on the payload capacity or the actual towing capacity of this truck.

Not an issue. When we were looking at our 23B, I contacted Dodge Customer Service (not the Dealer) with my Vin #. I had great conversation with them. they were able to pull up all the documents, informed me how the calculations were done. Chevy's customer Service should be able to do the same.