'12 26BH A-Frame Damage -- Is repair required?

[clubhouse]

After our last trip I noticed the damage to the A-Frame of the TT. Funny thing is I don't recall doing it. You would think if ever I turned sharp enough to press a hole in the A-Frame I would have felt or heard it, but nothing. Looking at the hitch head and trunion carriers I see no damage either -- its baffeling. The TT was at the dealer for a warranty repair to the DVD/CD player, I guess they could have done it with the forklift. Again I don't recall seeing it when I picked it up either so even if they did I could never prove it.

Anyway, have a look -- is this something I need to have a plate welded on to repair? Or can I simply sand the little surface rust and paint over so it doen't continue to rust and let it be? If I do add a plate shoudl it be on the inside of the frame or outside? As you can see the damaged area is small, about the size of a quarter, so there is still a lot of intact steel in the area.

[Terry]

That is an interesting one. Did you maybe make a sharp turn and it came in contact with the frame?

I am no expert, but the weight is all on the top and not the bottom. I would think you could have a welder "fill" it, then grind smooth and repaint.

[Jagiven]

Very interesting damage, I cannot foresee how your TV could have done that. I would also suspect the dealer with their fork truck style unit, may have done it. But as you say, that would almost be impossible to prove.

Because where the damage it is at, I would strongly consider having a welder weld on a piece of angle iron, to reinforce the damaged section. If the damage was any further back, I would absolutely have it welded up. The top of the A frame is under compression forces and the bottom is experiencing tension (pulling forces). I could foresee under the strains of heavy loads, rough terrain, and the WDH, stress cracks could grow furthering additional damage.

[Seann45]

That was hit by something going forward not back from the hitch...must have been a second party involved.. like when on the dealers service lot...

[Rustic Eagle]

I tend to agree that it would pay to have a certified welder address the damage..., the rounded corners of a steel tube are critical to the strength integrity of the steel tube.

Bob

[pjsl01]

Just my two cents, but based on the location of the damage I don't believe it is in the load path and probably won't cause any issues. I did a simple shear and moment diagram and the values are pretty low in that area of the frame. The frame was designed to handle a higher load around the axle. Take a look at the diagrams I attached. The moment values are much higher around point B (the axle) than point C (hitch).



I can't answer how it happened, but hopefully this helps you understand the level of risk......which I believe is low.

[Flyrotor]

I agree with pjsl01, but his answer is loaded with more statistical data to back him.

My original thoughts though were if it was on my trailer in that location, I would just sand it and paint it to protect it from rusting.

[Jagiven]

Pjsl01, glad to see that you did an analysis on the frame. My only additional 2 cents would be the analysis was done on a static load. Unfortunately, our TTs are on the road, with a very dynamic load, due to the road conditions and the WHD stresses. These are similar conditions that make some peoples rear TT bumper fall off after many miles of having a clamp on bike carrier connected to them.

If it was my TT, for peace of mind, I would weld it up.

[dlfeather]

I would hook up the TV and back it up jacked knive and see if any part of the hitch would hit that part of the tongue. If it is not Evan close to that part of the tongue I would take it to the dealer and show him.

I would weld it up and grind it smooth and repaint.

[Locky66]

There always has to be that one post that makes me say to myself "I should have paid more attention in School"

Originally Posted by pjsl01

Just my two cents, but based on the location of the damage I don't believe it is in the load path and probably won't cause any issues. I did a simple shear and moment diagram and the values are pretty low in that area of the frame. The frame was designed to handle a higher load around the axle. Take a look at the diagrams I attached. The moment values are much higher around point B (the axle) than point C (hitch).

Attachment 7342Attachment 7343

I can't answer how it happened, but hopefully this helps you understand the level of risk......which I believe is low.

[RoyBraddy]

I would go for a weld job and repaint dress-up. If the frame has been bent in any way towards the hitch I would have that looked at by a frame shop before welding up the hole. Heating of the frame was always a big concern to me when welding things.

It looks like like to me to be related with hooking up the trailer to be towed. I suspect the dealer guys missed their back up and turn radius. Who knows what was used to tow the trailer around the dealer lot. They all have the special made tow vehicle. I have seen everything from a modified Sears LT1000 riding lawn mowers to special hitch small tractors.

I have driller larger holes in the frame cross members mounting recessed battery switches.

Sorry no fancy stress charts here - I have slept in a few Holiday Inn Selects and maybe played the role of a Helicopter Pilot a few times in the hotel bars... I would sometimes be in hotel bar before my travel buddies would arrive and reminiscing war stories over a couple of beers and then my buddies would show up and throw me the keys saying "got the bird ready for tomorrow"... What a lifestyle being on the working road sometimes hehe...

Roy Ken

[exjay1]

^ Haha..Nice Roy. I wouldnt worry about it that much. If anything have it welded up, grind flush and paint as others had stated. If its accessable you could always have a piece of steel plate welded over or behind the hole.

[olde volks place]

I am no expert and as stated earlier there is no way to know who or how it happened BUT, IMO it looks like the area has two distinct lines to the left and right of the hole, now at a TT dealer near us they use a forklift with a ball welded onto an old fork that way they just drive up to the tongue and raise the fork w/ball into the receiver and move the TT. Is it possible the hole might be from the trailer being pushed/moved a tad bit (to get a better angle) by the fork of a forklift ?
Either way I would get it fixed. Remember--"Rust is Cancer"

[VicS1950]

Originally Posted by pjsl01

Just my two cents, but based on the location of the damage I don't believe it is in the load path and probably won't cause any issues. I did a simple shear and moment diagram and the values are pretty low in that area of the frame. The frame was designed to handle a higher load around the axle. Take a look at the diagrams I attached. The moment values are much higher around point B (the axle) than point C (hitch).

Originally Posted by Flyrotor

I agree with pjsl01, but his answer is loaded with more statistical data to back him.

My original thoughts though were if it was on my trailer in that location, I would just sand it and paint it to protect it from rusting.

I'm solidly in the don't worry about it camp.

A picture showing the actual trailer coupling attachment from a distance would be helpful, but applying typical trailer A frame design would indicate that the area which was damaged has no real structural affect.

I do agree with with stopping the rust by using paint or just some wheel bearing grease applied occasionally. To get the hole closed by welding may actually cause more corrosion problems. The welding will burn off the paint and change the properties of the metal in the area of the weld. You will not be able to apply paint to some of those hidden affected areas so they may rust even more after the welding.

My input and a dollar will probably not buy a cup of coffee in the big city, so FWIW. vic

[clutch]

I would fill it with epoxy and sand it smooth. Then paint the hitch.

Just my opinion.

[clubhouse]

Well the dealer is officially off the hook...I did the damage while backing into a tight spot, proved it this weekend with matching damage on the other side.

Going to have to rethink my backing strategy. Whenever I had a tight spot to hit I'd routinely drop the trunnion bars and really crank the wheel to hit my mark. Well with this hitch (Husky Centerline) and a top mount couple on the A-Frame the trunnion cams are simply to high to clear the A-Frame and gouge right into the last couple inches of steel below the coupler.

Interesting thing, again this time there was no indication it was happening while actually occurring. No noise, no pressure that I could feel during the backing, and after the fact zero damage or witness marks on trunnion cams.

On one hand I am disgusted that I did the damage with out even knowing, but on the other hand I am happy to know my dealer didn't do it and try to pass it off on me.

I guess it's back to the welder to get the fix.

[exjay1]

Well at least the mistery is solved.

[Murphie]

It really says something for taking your trailer to a lot and jack knifing it to see what is possible.

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by clubhouse

snip..... Well with this hitch (Husky Centerline) and a top mount couple on the A-Frame the trunnion cams are simply to high to clear the A-Frame and gouge right into the last couple inches of steel below the coupler.....snip

Trunnion spring bars hitting the TT A-frame with a top mount coupler is actually more common than folks think, they just don't know it until the spring bar pops off or damages another component. In these cases the top of the pinned "knuckle" on a trunnion spring bar can come in contact with the bottom/leading edge of the A-frame (below the coupler) in moderate TV turns. In many cases a little WDH re-adjustment resolves the issue, in others a riser hitch ball may be required.

As mentioned, everyone should check for any undesirable part-on-part contact with their WDH's by preforming TV turns in a parking lot.

Bob

[clubhouse]

Conclusion...

Took the TT to a specialty trailer and hitch shop today and was assured there is nothing to worry about from the damage. Looked at both sides closely and and determined nothing was changed in the geometry that would effect the A Frames ability to sustain the load and/or forces placed on it. He said they could basically weld a patch on it to cover the damage, but it would really only be aesthetic so I have basically decided to leave it for now.

As to prevent this from happening in the future I have ordered a new hitch ball with 1" rise. Based on my observation, it appears like the trunnion carriers contact the trailer about 3/4" up from the bottom of the frame...so hopefully 1" riser will provide just enough clearance. There is a 2" option with sufficient rating if I need more, but I think the 1" should work well and make the WD re-adjustment a little simpler.