Black tank dump valve

redsnapper · 08-18-2018, 10:56 AM

2017 Jayco SLX 245RLSW

Ongoing problem since new. It's time to do something.

Can't take it back to the dealer.......I am deep in Baja Mexico and a 1000 miles away.

The black tank drain volume is just a trickle....even after 30 days of use.
No paper has EVER been deposited and less than 4 "emergency" consistancy loads since brand new.

Nightly liquid deposits during this last 30 day period, with every other time flush.

Gauge says "full" with all 4 lights lit up. Started out from 3 lights.

On draining, the flow is a trickle.....while the gray was full on flow and empties well.
First go round was trailer level.......second attempt the drain side was down a bit. Still weak but a tad better.

Push/pull handle for the valve seems to operate ok.

Looking for help for a solution to the trickle drain.

Layman guess would be the valve is not opening fully, or construction debris is blocking the flow
Solids build up is a non factor.....not enough deposits to make that a concern and always with copious amounts of water first and after......with chemicals.
No paper ever.....

What say you?

oldmanAZ · 08-18-2018, 12:46 PM

It seems you are saying the black tank seems to drain fully, it just takes too long, correct? If that's true, could the fix wait until you're back in the US?

On the other hand...
Can you use a flashlight to look down through the toilet and see the level in the black tank? Could you drain the tank and lower a video camera (tape a cell phone to a stick and make a movie) and look around?

redsnapper · 08-18-2018, 01:17 PM

Oldman.......

No the tank does not drain completely....the best I can reckon.
The flow slows to nearly nil and by all manner of common sense, way less volume that what has been put in.

Idiot light gauge shows 2/3rds full after the dump.

Comparing the flow from the gray, which is a full flow torrent, the black flow is lacking big time.....a trickle by comparison.

I will do the flashlight thing when I get back up the line 250 miles where the trailer is waiting my return.

I have some digesting chemical on order and will give that a go soon.

Thank you

ALJO · 08-18-2018, 01:27 PM

You can check the tank with a camera if you have one, if not it is cheap to invest in one. (a dealer charges you $$$). Black liquid is thicker than gray liquid, means the flow will be slower. Tank monitors are useless for the gray and black tank.

redsnapper · 08-18-2018, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALJO

You can check the tank with a camera if you have one, if not it is cheap to invest in one. (a dealer charges you $$$). Black liquid is thicker than gray liquid, means the flow will be slower. Tank monitors are useless for the gray and black tank.

Now to convince a buddy of mine to stick his $$$ phone/camera down a dark and black hole full of goo.

mini4mw · 08-18-2018, 02:36 PM

If you've been filling up the blank tank with mostly liquid and its only trickling out, you have some obstruction. No easy way to go about it. If I had a coat hanger I'd try putting in the pipe and see what I could do. Over course if you free it up, better have enough water for a shower and a decent place for it to drain..

Other than that, perhaps call a septic tank guy or a plumber. Both may have cameras to shoot up there and see whats happening and the septic guy has a vacuum to try and clear the blockage.

redsnapper · 08-18-2018, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mini4mw

If you've been filling up the blank tank with mostly liquid and its only trickling out, you have some obstruction.

Yes this is the scenario........

And it's been this way since new......I suspect some construction debris has the exit blocked up, so it's just a trickle.

Do you or anyone, know how far up inside that drain pipe I could get a wire or hose or other implement to dislodge a blockage?

And for the offhand chance of someone knowing the OEM size of the valve itself?.....like I mentioned......the unit is 250 miles from me right now.
2017 Jayco Flight SLX 245 RLSW.

mini4mw · 08-19-2018, 01:09 PM

I believe the standard size is 3", but that's just memory/visual guess as mine is in storage. All the ones I've seen the toilet drops straight into black and there's a pipe off one end of the tank itself to the release valve. No real turns to get stuck on.

A hanger should tell you if the valve is opening all the way. It's probably just 1 slight turn before getting to the tank. I wonder if the valve isn't opening more than an obstruction. It would have to be pretty big to not let water out when the tank is full (water pressure).

I wonder if you twist the black tank release handle would screw into the slider in the valve? Or give the handle a string push closed to snap into valve slider? . Perhaps just not connected and when you pull it the slide opens just a crack by releasing the handle?

ALJO · 08-19-2018, 01:25 PM

Redsnapper; I was talking about an inspection camera, plumbers use it all the time. Those camera's are handy for everything in nooks of your RV or home, truck etc.

If your handle is fasten to the gate valve sometimes it takes a good pull when the seal is very dry. Many tanks are designed so that the discharge of the tank is right close to the inlet flange where the toilet sits on. Once your tank is empty you can expect easy. Main thing is your valve has to be open (handle extended all the way.

RogerR · 08-19-2018, 08:35 PM

Have you checked to make sure your gate valve is opening?? The handle on mine broke and had to be replaced. The valve is basically a flat piece of plastic or metal that slides open or closed in a track.
Google "rv gate valve repair" several YouTube on how they work and how o repair them. Could also be construction debris in the pipe blocking the valve.

If you up for a bath of nasty push the cleanout hose at the rv dump station up the pipe with water running. If it won't go past the valve then the valve may be broken

redsnapper · 08-20-2018, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerR

Have you checked to make sure your gate valve is opening?? The handle on mine broke and had to be replaced. The valve is basically a flat piece of plastic or metal that slides open or closed in a track.
Google "rv gate valve repair" several YouTube on how they work and how o repair them. Could also be construction debris in the pipe blocking the valve.

If you up for a bath of nasty push the cleanout hose at the rv dump station up the pipe with water running. If it won't go past the valve then the valve may be broken

I do believe this is the pesky problem.
Since day one of owning this trailer, the black drain flow was always weak and a trickle. I compare this flow with the gray, which is a full torrent.

When I get back up the line 250 miles to where the trailer is stored near a remote Baja Mexico beach, I can give it a go.

RogerR · 08-20-2018, 03:07 PM

If you find something flexible like an old hose or you fit your arm up to the valve you could feel it was opening. (arm, yuck ) If it is open, proceed pushing the hose carefully up and see if you hit an obstruction like something thrown into the toilet.

It could just be a giant plug of poo/paper/??.

My youngest did not want to brush his teeth and flushed his toothbrush which promptly lodged in the bend at the back, Then it blocked up a few days later and overflowed. My neighbors wife used Tucks and blocked up a whole septic system ($9,000 repair) so who knows what is down there.

Once you get flow buy a cleanout wand and do some major flushing.
https://www.amazon.com/Camco-Flexibl...+cleanout+wand

curver900 · 08-21-2018, 07:27 AM

I would just pick up a sewer snake and a new valve.. when you pull the handle you should be able to tell if it is opening when you try and route the snake up there.. I doubt you are going to find a plumber to come out and take care of it in your location.. snake will tell you if it is the valve or not and if not then you have an extra valve.. you can take it back.. if it is you can replace it. If the snake stops at the valve then you know what it is if it doesn't you should be able to push it up and move the blockage you may not get it out.. but at least you can jostle it around... maybe it will free up... make sure you get old clothes and keep the bleach handy...

thought if you use a large plastic bag to cover the connections if you take out the valve maybe that will redirect the stuff away from you....

Bassdogs · 08-21-2018, 08:38 AM

Short of pumping out the contents of the tank via the flush opening in the toilet, you are probably going to have a mess outside when the problem is eliminated and the flow is restored. Doing this at a dumpstation when you are the only one there is what I would do. This is not a time when you want an audience. Bring along a hanger that you have straightened and or a 4' piece of romex wire or flexible hose. Park over the drain area and probe the dump pipe with the valve closed. You should be able to feel the closed gate. Then open the valve and you will be able to push farther into the black pipe. If you get all 4' into the pipe and haven't felt an obstruction, I'm going to guess that there is something in the tank that is blocking the opening. It could be nothing more than a piece of plastic bag.

If you feel something as you probe the drain line, pull mark the depth and then pull back 6 or 8" and reinsert several times. Watch out because if successful the dam is going to break. Be prepared to close the valve so you can attach the sewer hose and then open again. It may take several tries at this to urge the obstruction thru the drainline.

Good luck and let us know how it all comes out. Sorry just had to say that!!

Isaacs · 08-21-2018, 08:42 AM

Perhaps you should get a twist-on valve that fits between the dump pipe and the hose. That way, if you do manage to loosen up some debris with a coat hanger or whatever, you can quickly shut it off 'till you get the hose connected.

Another thought; is there a rod going directly from the handle to the valve or does it connect with a flexible wire in a sheath? Either way, can you crawl underneath and see that the valve is moving, at least from the outside? I guess it's possible that the actual plastic "gate" in the valve has somehow become disconnected. This may leave the unpleasant option of replacing the valve (actually it's quite easy) while the tank is full.

redsnapper · 08-21-2018, 09:49 AM

Thanks to all....

The black valve is this style linked below......best I can tell, but not sure just yet if it's a Valterra brand or not, or even the size.
Push/pull rod style.
Like I said earlier, the trailer is 250 miles from me right now.
I will try the selling dealer parts department for their guidance on what Jayco uses as OEM for black valves. Or run the phone gauntlet with Jayco direct.

https://www.amazon.com/Valterra-T100...=valtera+valve

Before I get all stinky, I want to try this:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...KIKX0DER&psc=1

And this....
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...1WTEU1A3&psc=1

However, any flush devices that need a strong flow of fresh water will have to wait until I get the unit back to civilization.
Only option seems to be to use the chemical, add water using the fresh tank supply and tow the 250 miles back to my abode.

As I understand it, and when back in civilization, you're suggesting run the snake or other implement into the tank end piece (where the cap is)....with the dump valve in the open or closed position?
If closed, I should "feel" the snake come to an abrupt stop?
Then open the valve, or at least operate the push/pull rod, and feel the snake continue on its travel farther up the line?
Would a snake of sufficient length make its way into the tank, where one could see it from the toilet opening?

If the snake meets a blockage along the line, and dislodges it, I am faced with the prospects of a face to face encounter of an idiot light gauge full black tank. A way to quickly shut down that flow would be great, but seems to me the snake would have to be yanked out first?
I envision untold gallons of raw sewage smacking me square in the face before the flow gets stopped.

Apologies to keep this thread going on. It's difficult to work through this when I don't have ready access to the trailer, to provide exacting configuration and a normal supply of city pressure water supply.

gs750t · 08-21-2018, 10:23 AM

Had a similar issue with our 2016 Redhawk. The cut out from the tank was lodged in the black water valve. We were lucky by slamming the valve a bunch of times the abs plastic circle opened enough for us to drain the tank. It ruined the valve but was replaced under warranty. The piece remained stuck in the valve.

Bassdogs · 08-21-2018, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsnapper

Thanks to all....

I want to try this:
Only option seems to be to use the chemical, add water using the fresh tank supply and tow the 250 miles back to my abode.

I?
I envision untold gallons of raw sewage smacking me square in the face before the flow gets stopped.

.

Adding a chemical at this stage is not going to accomplish anything. Why would you add more water?? Do the "snake" or hose over a dump pit and the cleanup will be easier.

Don't make this any more distasteful than it is already going to be. Just do it and then clean it up. Get it overwith..

redsnapper · 08-21-2018, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassdogs

Adding a chemical at this stage is not going to accomplish anything. Why would you add more water?? Do the "snake" or hose over a dump pit and the cleanup will be easier.

Don't make this any more distasteful than it is already going to be. Just do it and then clean it up. Get it overwith..

The chemical may dissolve a non hard part blockage and forgo the probing with a snake?

Hose over a dump pit is out of the question......there is NO hose at a dump pit where it's located and won't be until I get back to civilization..250 miles away...I thought I had made that clear several times.

nko2000 · 08-25-2018, 08:13 PM

On my trailer the black tank valve rod is supported under the frame with a "P" clamp that will unintentionally rotate when the rod is pulled and bind the rod's movement. Until I replace this clamp with a better designed support, it is a two hand operation to open the black valve fully, one to align the P clamp and the other to pull the rod.

You may also like: