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Old 12-08-2021, 08:33 AM   #1
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California to ban generators

California is at it again, now they are banning generators under 25hp.

Per RV Industry: Public virtual hearing Dec 9th,
https://www.rvia.org/news-insights/c...-rv-generators

Just some articles on the subject:

https://www.rvtravel.com/legislation...ers-rvt-1029b/

https://www.thedrive.com/news/42744/...-what-it-means

https://www.motor1.com/news/553055/c...ns-generators/
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Old 12-08-2021, 09:22 AM   #2
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you would think they would work to better prevent disasters like wildfires rather than piddling little RV generators.
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Old 12-08-2021, 10:04 AM   #3
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[QUOTE=Jagiven;1015233]California is at it again, now they are banning generators under 25hp.

I was born and raised in California. Nothing coming out of this state surprise’s me anymore! We get what we elect. I hope to live long enough to see some kind of sanity return.
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Old 12-11-2021, 04:02 PM   #4
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Well, the law passed.

California regulators voted on Thursday to ban the sale of new gas-powered leaf blowers and lawn mowers starting in 2024 and portable generators by 2028, the latest step in the state's aggressive effort to reduce harmful pollutants and transition toward a carbon-free economy.

The ban on gas-powered generators elicited the most opposition during Thursday's hearing, with critics saying battery-powered generators are an inadequate substitute during a sustained power outage or when access to power to recharge a battery is nonexistent.

Dave Johnston, the air pollution control officer at El Dorado County Air Quality Management District, expressed concern about the consequences for residents in rural areas. Gas-powered portable generators are essential for many Californians, especially those living in areas hit by widespread blackouts when high winds sweep through the state, mostly because utilities are trying to prevent a downed power line from starting a blaze.

Recreational vehicle manufactures and dealers also urged the board to rethink the generator ban. They said RV users depend on gas-powered generators, which are often permanently mounted, while in remote areas without access to power. Solar-powered equipment cannot provide the energy needed to run medical devices, refrigerators and air conditioning in hot climates, they said.

"The battery required to supply needed power to an RV for just one day would need to be twice the size of a battery currently used in a Tesla Model S and would cost upwards of $60,000 to $100,000, and would add at least 1,000 to 2,000 pounds to a vehicle, decreasing its fuel economy," said Michael Ochs of the Recreational Vehicle Industry Assn.
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Old 12-11-2021, 05:29 PM   #5
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Nothing out of Sacramento is a surprise.
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Old 12-11-2021, 05:51 PM   #6
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Reports are they banned the sale of, not the use of gasoline generators. The rv miles podcast said these bans don't affect diesel or propane powered units (generators ).
Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see.
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Old 12-11-2021, 06:17 PM   #7
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I've seen and smelled a lot of noisy gasoline generators. Stuck far from camp because they're pumping raw-gas exhaust. Crappy carburetor technology.
The skies in Southern California are clear and not toxic like the 90's, because California doesn't care what your 'freedom to pollute' means.
Technology has 7 years to improve and nothing is a bigger innovation-stimulus than money.
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Old 12-11-2021, 07:13 PM   #8
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Old 12-11-2021, 08:16 PM   #9
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Problem solved.
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Old 12-15-2021, 01:01 PM   #10
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But it's harder to get angry when you have all the facts...
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Old 12-15-2021, 01:19 PM   #11
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Ha Ha, if i had only known...

Ha Ha, if I had only known about this tow behind generator it could have saved me the effort of installing an inverter in our RV. Much more practical to tow this up into the primitive wilderness for roughing it.

Quiet I bet...😲


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Originally Posted by madmaxmutt View Post
Problem solved.
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Old 12-15-2021, 02:00 PM   #12
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They can quit building new construction for a while, as population masses flees the state?
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Old 12-15-2021, 02:17 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old and soft View Post
Reports are they banned the sale of, not the use of gasoline generators. The rv miles podcast said these bans don't affect diesel or propane powered units (generators ).
Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see.
ROFL that is the next thing.. and the huggers will love it because they are noisy...
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Old 12-15-2021, 03:06 PM   #14
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Perhaps it's time for fuel injected portable generators. Fuel injection transforms the performance and emissions output of any engine, but small engine manufacturers simply won't bother, because nobody is pressuring them to do so, and they won't spare the couple bucks needed to make the changeover.

Until now, CARB emissions standards still accommodate both 2-stroke (insane) and carburetted engines. As goes CA, so goes the rest of the country -- once the manufacturers are pressured to produce the products by CARB, many of the other states will follow. This makes the economies of scale for fuel injection bring prices in line with current carburetted products.

A proposed ruling isn't a ruling...it's a trial balloon. You can bet that every manufacturer, from Honda to Generac to Kohler to Harbor Freight, will lobby hard for a reasonable accommodation...as will ranchers, the RV industry, the construction trades, and so on. The final ruling will very likely require MUCH lower emissions from these small engines (easily attainable), but the manufacturers absolutely MUST step up and bring to market what is now very old technology, EFI instead of carbs. Having failed to do so is absolutely unjustified.

PS. I have a brand new Generac 3000 watt inverter generator, and it stinks like hell...perhaps because it doesn't have a high altitude kit in the carb. EFI doesn't need a "kit"!! It just works. Given currently available technology, the idea that each end user needs to modify the carb to make their engine match the altitude is ludicrous. My 1978 VW had fuel injection for gods' sake, yet my '86 Accord was still carburetted. Honda...one of the biggest names in outdoor motorsports and equipment...is no angel when it comes to making the best choices for the environment -- despite the premium they charge. I have a 1999 Honda Foreman ATV I use to plow. It's carburetted. Ridiculous.

If you want to defend your right to buy a new generator in CA, weigh in. Personally, I'm all for making sure that a 200 CC engine is not putting out more emissions than a 5.7 liter V8.
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Old 12-15-2021, 05:05 PM   #15
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... and thus was the beginning of "SloPoke's Generator Sales" Just a few miles across the border of California.

Discounts for JOF members, Member FDIC, Discontinue use if rash develops.
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Old 12-15-2021, 05:19 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmoore13 View Post
Perhaps it's time for fuel injected portable generators. Fuel injection transforms the performance and emissions output of any engine, but small engine manufacturers simply won't bother, because nobody is pressuring them to do so, and they won't spare the couple bucks needed to make the changeover.



My 1978 VW had fuel injection for gods' sake, yet my '86 Accord was still carburetted. :
Oh how that brings back some memories... I remember pushing our "Fuel Injected Beetle" more miles than I ever rode in the front seat... When it did run, it was slower than a turd on a two-by-four in a headwind.

I'm not knocking FI power, but you will need to have an existing electrical system before it will start - to power all the telemetry that a decent FI system requires... (none that exist on any small class generators today)
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Old 12-15-2021, 05:29 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmoore13 View Post
Perhaps it's time for fuel injected portable generators. Fuel injection transforms the performance and emissions output of any engine, but small engine manufacturers simply won't bother, because nobody is pressuring them to do so, and they won't spare the couple bucks needed to make the changeover.

Until now, CARB emissions standards still accommodate both 2-stroke (insane) and carburetted engines. As goes CA, so goes the rest of the country -- once the manufacturers are pressured to produce the products by CARB, many of the other states will follow. This makes the economies of scale for fuel injection bring prices in line with current carburetted products.

A proposed ruling isn't a ruling...it's a trial balloon. You can bet that every manufacturer, from Honda to Generac to Kohler to Harbor Freight, will lobby hard for a reasonable accommodation...as will ranchers, the RV industry, the construction trades, and so on. The final ruling will very likely require MUCH lower emissions from these small engines (easily attainable), but the manufacturers absolutely MUST step up and bring to market what is now very old technology, EFI instead of carbs. Having failed to do so is absolutely unjustified.

PS. I have a brand new Generac 3000 watt inverter generator, and it stinks like hell...perhaps because it doesn't have a high altitude kit in the carb. EFI doesn't need a "kit"!! It just works. Given currently available technology, the idea that each end user needs to modify the carb to make their engine match the altitude is ludicrous. My 1978 VW had fuel injection for gods' sake, yet my '86 Accord was still carburetted. Honda...one of the biggest names in outdoor motorsports and equipment...is no angel when it comes to making the best choices for the environment -- despite the premium they charge. I have a 1999 Honda Foreman ATV I use to plow. It's carburetted. Ridiculous.

If you want to defend your right to buy a new generator in CA, weigh in. Personally, I'm all for making sure that a 200 CC engine is not putting out more emissions than a 5.7 liter V8.
Sure clean up small output motors, that would be good. Unfortunately, people that make things have to charge for redesigning them and additional production costs. I really don't want a $1 per watt generator. And, they didn't make any kind of cleanup option, just a horsepower rating leaving little room for small camping generators. Of course, if it involves common sense, no bureaucratic agency will approve it, anyway.
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Old 12-15-2021, 05:31 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toad View Post
Ha Ha, if I had only known about this tow behind generator it could have saved me the effort of installing an inverter in our RV. Much more practical to tow this up into the primitive wilderness for roughing it.

Quiet I bet...😲
Actually, they are quite quiet. Don't want the enemy to know where they are.
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Old 12-15-2021, 05:48 PM   #19
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I've done it with my 377!!
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Old 12-15-2021, 05:51 PM   #20
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Actually, they are quite quiet. Don't want the enemy to know where they are.
I can vouch for that... they are very quiet. We took one with us for a week long music festival with a bunch of friends. We powered 4 RV's with 50A hookups in 100F weather and ran that genny about 18-hours/day 150kW continuous was a little overkill, but it was not noisy.
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