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Old 10-13-2017, 04:41 AM   #1
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Lead Acid VS Lithium as the price drops

I have seen so many off grid energy systems with defunct lead-acid batteries. They work as designed for a few years if you are careful, and then they lose their depth of charge. I’ve been working with Lithium-Ion batteries over the past year, and while significantly more complex, they have some amazing advantages. Based on my experience, I predict that in a few years, we’ll move away from lead-acid batteries.

I believe right now we are at a clear crossroads when it comes to choosing a battery type for energy storage for off grid energy systems. We are at the transition between lead-acid batteries, the tried-and-true technology used for decades, and lithium-ion’s promise of higher density, improved resiliency, and longer cycle life.

Recently we’ve seen companies successfully gain traction with cost effective lithium-ion technologies. Li-Ion batteries are selling for as low as $400/kWh. Tesla, LG Chemical, Sonnen, Simpliphi Power, and Lithionics all have reliable products at reasonable prices. And recently the German car manufacturer Mercedes-Benz announced that they are also getting into the stationary storage market with Mercedes-Benz Energy.

But what about lead-acid batteries? They’ve been around for so long that they are practically a commodity. Their quality ranges significantly depending on the manufacturer, but the technological differences are minimal. Manufacturers like Trojan, Rolls/Surrette, and MK/Deka have been in the game for decades. Why disrupt this two-century old technology? And what makes lithium-ion a game changer?

Advantage № 1 — Superior in Size & Weight
While superior energy density is not critical for stationary applications, it is essential for electric vehicles and portable electronics. Increased energy density greatly improves the deployment and installation process for stationary energy storage.
The graph above illustrates how lithium-ion batteries are about a third of the weight and half of the volume when compared to lead-acid (flooded, AGM, and gel). Lithium-ion batteries are in a league of their own when compared to all other battery types since they are significantly more energy dense.
Advantage № 2 — Superior Resilience
<img class="progressiveMedia-noscript js-progressiveMedia-inner" src="https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/600/1*f4KQs6X_GL_4K9vouaTgdA.png">
All batteries are vulnerable to damage from excessive discharging and extreme temperatures. Lead-acid batteries are generally less resilient to this kind of abuse and are harmed if discharged too quickly or deeply. Lead-acid batteries lose potential cycles if they are discharged below 50% of their State of Charge (SOC) or if discharged faster than C/8. On the other hand, lithium-ion batteries can be discharged to about 80% SOC and at a rate of C/2 without any long term damage. The table above shows common characteristics of the three types of batteries; flooded lead-acid, valve-regulated lead-acid, and lithium-ion.
<img class="progressiveMedia-noscript js-progressiveMedia-inner" src="https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/600/1*IBFETfkEtfWXki2Y5N0_Aw.png">
A helpful way to think of charging and discharging a battery is to imagine it like a balloon. If you repeatedly inflate a balloon to its maximum capacity and then completely deflate it, the balloon material might fatigue from the excessive stress. Now imagine with another balloon you repeatedly inflate and deflate it from 50% to 90% full, the material will experience less stress and will last longer than the first balloon. The plates inside the battery undergo a comparable stress as the balloon material. In this example, lithium-ion batteries are simply made from a better, stronger balloon material when compared to lead-acid.

https://medium.com/solar-microgrid/b...n-1d37a1998287






https://medium.com/solar-microgrid/b...n-1d37a1998287
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Old 10-13-2017, 05:09 AM   #2
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Yep lithium packs are great. Nothing new about that. Have been using them in hobby grade rc vehicles for about a decade.

Early this year I converted my 48v golf cart from six 8v batteries to a lithium pack. It wasn’t cheap but it was worth it. The lithium pack weighs close to 300lbs less, takes up less under seat room, I don’t have to carry distilled water, the pack charges so much quicker and lasts longer. The only downside is the initial cost. But for me, that one downside is outweighed by all the benefits.
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Old 10-13-2017, 06:32 AM   #3
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I have been looking hard at lithium for some time. My biggest hang up is that it requires different a converter on the rv and a different solar controller that is used on lead acid.
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Old 10-14-2017, 03:54 AM   #4
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I have been looking hard at lithium for some time. My biggest hang up is that it requires different a converter on the rv and a different solar controller that is used on lead acid.
You must be running lead acid now. The good news is you will have no problem selling your old equipment. The best news is you can get the new 48 Volt panels that are 330 watts each. A Magnum inverter can be in your future as well.

I have decided to run the solar system as a separate system on the Rv. Then I just plug the RV into that system. No transfer switch needed, No converter to go 48 volt to 12 volt. Can still have a lead acid on the RV to run the 12 volt system and it will charge when plugged into the Solar system from the 50 amp RV plug.
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Old 10-14-2017, 06:13 AM   #5
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Because of space limitation, I could only consider direct replacement lithium batteries. They would have to conform to the same space as my group 31 batteries now use. Therefore I think it would still be 12 volt. I have no intention of changing solar panels that I just enstalled. Still very much in the pondering mode!!
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Old 10-15-2017, 07:01 AM   #6
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Because of space limitation, I could only consider direct replacement lithium batteries. They would have to conform to the same space as my group 31 batteries now use. Therefore I think it would still be 12 volt. I have no intention of changing solar panels that I just enstalled. Still very much in the pondering mode!!
You can use angle iron to form battery holders that hang under the front of the Rv for batteries. Design them to fit any size battery. Jayco is now installing them on some of the new TT for 2018. The one that Jayco installed on mine holds just 3 Group 31 batterys and one in front of the propane tanks. But I'm having one built to hold 5 more behind the one that holds 3.
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Old 10-15-2017, 06:40 PM   #7
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You can use angle iron to form battery holders that hang under the front of the Rv for batteries. Design them to fit any size battery. Jayco is now installing them on some of the new TT for 2018. The one that Jayco installed on mine holds just 3 Group 31 batterys and one in front of the propane tanks. But I'm having one built to hold 5 more behind the one that holds 3.
I have a fifth wheel that that has a fixed battery compartment in the side of the camper. It will allow for two group 31's after I did some minor modifications. [eliminating the sliding tray] I also carry 2 group 24's on the rear carrier. Most sources say that you should not mix sizes but it has worked well for me now for three years. All batteries were bought at the same time from the same manufacturer. [US battery]. Yes, anything can be modified but it has worked well without sacrificing any of my other storage. I have 430 Ah at present and I'm having trouble seeing how I would be any better off going with lithium considering my existing setup.
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Old 10-16-2017, 03:42 AM   #8
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You are correct never mix battery types together unless you run 2 separate systems. That is 2 independent systems where the TT 50 amp plugs into the second system.
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Old 10-16-2017, 04:16 AM   #9
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You are correct never mix battery types together unless you run 2 separate systems. That is 2 independent systems where the TT 50 amp plugs into the second system.
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