2018 Senecas

[RayPayne]

I feel for you, but the fact you took it with all the issues makes it a lot harder to get anything out of the dealer. You got an RV with a ton of problems from the factory, and a dealer that did nothing about it. My only experience with a bad dealer after purchase was handled by the manufacturer (that RV was a Winnebago) even though it was more hassle than dealing with it locally. Unless you've filed suit against Jayco, I'd seriously see if you can get it shipped to them for the repairs. Even if you had to do a flight down to sign off on the repairs before it was cleared, it would at least give an option to make use of a quarter million dollar investment into what is meant to be a fun purchase. I don't think with the issues I'd be a happy camper either, but I'm just trying to see the best way to get things at least part way enjoyable again for you.

[Peachlander]

Good point, but here's how it worked in the real world and in our case;

We noted some paint damage when we took possession. We saw that the mudflaps were burned off, the trailer hitch plug in was damaged (probably because they used it as a mule to drag a trailer from Indiana to western Canada), the remote for the DVD player was missing (never ever did get it, they had to replace the DVD player), the Darco wrap under the slides was damaged, and a few other things.

We concede that as purchasers of a BRAND NEW $250,000 RV, the very model that we'd been looking at for at least two years, we were completely wowed by it, the flash, the shine, the indoor viewing of it at close range where defects are not always noticeable.

We fell for the sales pitches, hook, line, and sinker.

We bought all the warranties, guarantees, Diamond-Cote, road-side assistance, wheel insurances, you name it.

What did we get for all of that? Nothing. Nothing at all. We've used it for only 200 miles of camping in almost a year before it failed. The warranties are half gone. Road-side assistance, in only 200 miles? Hardly. We lost all of those extra costs, and most of those warranties are already half gone.

Who know what new issues we'll find if we actually get to use it? Will our warranties be used up before we get to use it again?

Those are the issues that forced us to get a lawyer. The dealer has stonewalled us on either any compensation or fair treatment, and like I said, Jayco is completely silent on all of it.

[Peachlander]

Sure wish I lived somewhere near Middlebury! Turns out that it's 4717 km from here (that's 2450 miles, one way). I do appreciate the comment, but it's a month of driving. lol

The next motorhome I buy will be purchased in the USA where I'll spend some serious time and get all the bugs worked out. I pay close attention to which dealers get praise here on this site.

Don't really think that Jayco will be on my list again though.

[RVermont]

What a horrible experience. The factory option really does not seem like a viable option yet it potentially might be the only choice to get past this. While I have not had a problem with a purchase this size I have had good luck with sending letters directly to the president, CEO that I have had issues with. (Cars and computers). Many large organizations have people who handle these inquires and they get special handling. I would suggest a letter to the president of jayco and to president of Thor. While I can not say it will work in this case, a carefully written letter asking for help can not hurt. Ideally this at least gets a good conversation going with people that can actually make decisions.

My two cents, for what it is worth.

Best wishes on your successful resolution of this matter.


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[Peachlander]

Thanks, I thought that we'd get some results when we spoke to Joyce Skinner at Jayco, who is a senior customer service rep, and also to another man whose name is in my notes. They just gave us lip service, spoke down to us, and are obviously experienced at delay and denial.

I expect that most manufacturers expect that people will just take the beating that their dealers hand out and give up. Not so for many of us who feel really taken advantage of by them. With such a large investment, they can expect that people will eventually take them to court. Such will be our situation I expect. As an experienced businessman, I started documenting all communication and facts almost from the start.

As soon as I spoke to Jayco, I noted that the delay tactics were already there. It didn't us take long to realize that we needed to keep track of the facts, catch up with statements, emails, photos, documents, and workorders. I would suggest to anyone buying a new product that they do the same, but don't wait until you've got a problem, keep your eyes open!

We've got a lawyer now and are chasing the dealer for the poor/no PDI that we feel caused the bulk of the issues that led to not being able to use the unit. The dealer on the other hand could choose to take those issues up with Jayco, and perhaps they have, but by the words of the owner of the dealership, Jayco is one of his biggest suppliers.

We expect and most of you would agree that to some extent the manufacturer and the dealership are in bed together with respect to warranty and complaint issues. It's not a happy situation and something that should have more rigid government intervention and controls.

I expect that if complaints increase, that's where changes in the law will come from.

In the interim we may be forced to keep the unit and put up with some more delays, but we intend to take the matter before the courts and will not be dropping it.

We're lucky to have the financial resources to fight, I imagine that a lot of retired people get screwed hard when things like this happen to them!

[theoat]

Sorry to hear that....
I thought I had enough issues on our TT (almost all that I was able to fix or swap out parts on my own). This was due to a poor to non-existent PDI.

At this point it's probably too late, but couldn't you have got a non-jayco dealer to assess and get factory approval to work on the unit?

I believe there is 2 dealers in the interior 1 in Winfield and 1 in Kelowna/Airdrie.
Are you able to take it to the other than you bought it from? (again, probably too late at this point).

Going forward, now that we've bought one RV I know to go through everything myself in detail before paying and to go for lowest price (which I did) and expect to fix most issues within reason myself.

[Peachlander]

Well, the poor PDI was the sole cause of our issues. Jayco started the problems of course, but the dealer just passed those issues onto us.

As someone else stated in this string, the Jayco dealer almost certainly just washed it, milked us for financial products including a useless Diamond Cote, and sent us out to create and document warranty income for themselves.

It's shameful that you'd have to do your own repairs on a brand new unit, and that speaks to the manufacturing quality, dealer support, and the industry itself.

Should we continue on with this Jayco Seneca (not our first choice by any means), we will certainly look to the other dealer here in the area to provide any future warranty or other repairs.

We are aware of the two Jayco dealers here in the Okanagan. Too late to use the other more reputable dealer now as the PDI repairs are being attempted by the original selling dealer. We recently bought a travel trailer from that other dealer for a Yukon trip next year where we wouldn't have taken the motorhome anyway. That other dealer has treated us great and we know now that the dealer we dealt with has a crappy reputation locally, even though they've only been here for a couple or three years. Funny how fast word gets around. I won't mention the name of the better dealer here as with all the negative remarks, someone who is just scanning the message might construe that the good dealer is the one that I'm talking about. At some point here, I'll make that name known, but most of the readers here are probably our American friends, so it wouldn't mean too much to them, except if they're travelling up here in Canada.

We would be much wiser purchasers now too. It's truly a shock to find out that a new motorhome is probably the worst possible choice.

Even when/if the unit is repaired, we will continue with our claim against the dealer. If they had a Canadian presence or if they were in Canada, we'd take on Jayco too, as they are just as culpable for the issues that the dealer missed in the PDI.

If the recounting of our experience with our "new" Jayco Seneca 37TS saves even one other family the crap that we've been through, it'll bring a measure of satisfaction.

Shop wise friends, don't buy the extra warranty BS, certainly don't agree to a single thing until you've had all the time in the world to check things over. Get a written return policy that includes a full refund if the unit is a lemon. If they won't sign one, move on to a better dealer and a better product.

[Dustdevil]

My final 2 cents:
You won't get a full refund guarantee from any dealer, any RV manufacturer. Not Jayco, not anyone.
You got a lemon. It happens, but it doesn't mean Jayco makes a bad product.
It's becoming clear your problem is the dealer.
Jayco isn't going to pester you and pro-actively arrange everything for you. You must claim warranties. They don't come to you. Nobody does. I don't care what manufacturer you're dealing with, or what product. The warranty claim process needs your input and your direction. Clearly, your dealer is not conveying whatever you've told them properly to Jayco.
You have responsibilities under almost any warranty. An auto dealer in Indiana won't phone you weekly to check up on progress. They won't even do that with the dealer. They will pay invoices that are sent to them for warranty work. They won't transport your vehicle back to the factory for repairs. It's simply not part of their responsibility under the written terms of the warranty. An auto manufacturer requires you to deliver the vehicle to the dealer of your choice, who is authorized be re-imbursed for their properly documented and successful work. Same with an RV.
Jayco won't keep following up with you, you have to call them. It's a matter of policy with nearly any manufacturer of large ticket goods. If you want updates, you have to call them and verify that their dealer is doing the documentation correctly, or get the manufacturer to recommend someone who will.
The dealer isn't going to give you a new unit and eat the cost of the original.
You're going to have to drive this forward, at least if you insist on keeping this half-fixed unit at the same dealer. They are clearly overmatched and understaffed, and aren't up to this task. Find another dealer who will stay on top of it. Even if you have to duplicate that pro-active process of keeping things moving forward, it's still your investment to protect.
You seem to have legitimate claims, but I'd make sure they are all not exacerbated by anything you did, or the court may find partial fault and decline to award you what you are seeking.

[Larry Mac]

Very sorry to hear stories like these-- far to many of them.
Typical case where there is shoddy work done at the manufacturer and they count on their dealers to bail them out based on their warranty-- problem is dealers are backed up with too much warranty work to actually take their time to do the repairs correctly. Lemon laws are ridiculous. Consumer loses. In this case, consumer was miles from a dealer and in Canada.
I have been shopping for an RV for more than a year-something I can enjoy with the grandkids.
But I'm a retired teacher and while I would love to get a nice MH, I cannot afford to go thru what this poor gentleman has had to do. It's scares the crap out of me. And I live 5-6 miles from a supposed reputable Jayco dealer. I will say this though. My proximity would force that dealer to fix my unit correctly. I think that hurt this gentleman and the fact he was in Canada. Out of sight, out of mind to Jayco. I waffle everyday about getting an RV. And it makes it worse that I drive by them so often looking nice and shiny on their lot. But stories like this make me shudder.


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[Peachlander]

Thanks, but our lawyer says different, and we're negotiating now. Food for thought there.

As for the unit being a lemon, no, it's not a lemon, there are many good features that seem to be built to industry and expected and reasonable standards. Mostly, the unit was sold without any prep or PDI by the dealer. Yes Jayco set that ball in motion, but lemons don't just happen, it's not a fluke, it's negligence. Does Jayco build a good product, maybe most of the time, but when they don't they walk away.

We did not expect Jayco to chase us, we initially chased them, and the dealer too. When our coach failed, neither the dealer nor Jayco seemed to feel any responsibility to us to make the coach useable asap. Therein is a good portion of the claim, once the unit was returned to the dealer unuseable, they should have jumped on it and made it right.

Jayco won't keep following up with you, you have to call them. It's a matter of policy with nearly any manufacturer of large ticket goods. If you want updates, you have to call them and verify that their dealer is doing the documentation correctly, or get the manufacturer to recommend someone who will.

We've yet to actually make a warranty claim, we didn't have it working long enough to find any issues that weren't more PDI than anything else. If we are very lucky, maybe just maybe the coach will be workable soon. Like I said elsewhere, it's booked for a second round of repairs at the end of this month.

In respect of driving the issue forward, you can imagine, if you've read my replies that we're driving this like a herd of scalded cats. The know that we are here and that we demand the unit be repaired to a new standard!

Our dealer doesn't seem to be understaffed, but the dealership has outgrown its ability to service what it sells and that seems to be part of the issue. They made unrealistic promises, we didn't put the words in their mouths.

As for exacerbating the claims, you make a great point. We have been very careful not to do that, as then it's our problem, and not theirs. When we discovered that the slides were damaging the floors, we contacted the dealer immediately and only closed them to transport it to the dealer. When we got the unit back, we opened the slides and closed them, once, and we noted immediately that although they claimed that the slides were repaired, the living-room slide is marking the newly repaired floors. We will not use the unit if damage is going to be caused by doing so. That being said, we can't use the unit then, can we?

We're still at only 11 nights in that "brand new" 2016 Jayco Seneca 37TS, and we can't imagine a single thing that we could have done differently to have prevented all the issues that we've had and continue to have with it.

Rest assured, we are persuing the matter even now. I'll post the results as they happen.

[Peachlander]

Well I can only say to you, that perhaps a new motorhome is the worst option.

Shop around if you can, and consider a trailer maybe. We much preferred motorhomes, having had several, but none of them had issues like this new Jayco, none of them.

We too are just retiring this spring and bought that new Jayco last year after seeing that same model at another branch of the same dealer that we had hoped was really on the ball. That as you can tell turned out to be just car-salesmanship.

It's impossible for any manufacturer to iron out every possible issue prior to delivery, but a good dealer will at least look the unit over before they sell it, wouldn't you think.

Well if you think that they would, think again. As we found out, they'll wash it and sell you as many gimmicky add-ons and financial swindles as they can.

Don't buy a single one of those warranties, or financial packages, put that money into your pocket, cause it won't do you a bit of good.

One of the authors in this string summed it up when he said that he'd had to do the bulk of the repairs himself. Stay tuned and we'll tell you how this horror story ends, doubtfully a happy ending, but you never know.....

So far my lawyer is the only one getting paid, but I can afford to keep him in the game and make them deal with me, can you?

[Peachlander]

That's the catch, the lawyer says that we should be entitled to damages or perhaps a complete refund. The latter is on the table now and we come to terms on it, but we're RV people and that's only the start of looking again,,,,,,sigh.

Like most people, we went looking for adventure, not trouble..