65mph drone + loud banging in cabover curved panel

alazear · 09-12-2019, 06:38 AM

I've got a new 2020 Redhawk 24B. E450 platform was built in 2019. It's doing the same thing as mentioned in a pervious thread, a very pronounced drone beginning at 65mph exactly. It is solidly there when there is torque on the driveshaft and drops off when coasting or letting off the gas at that speed or above. By 66-68+ mph it's loud enough to want to wear ear plugs, no kidding; I'm considering it. It's ridiculously loud and annoying.

I've got no problems with my slide out catching wind or vibrating. It's tight and even when driving. I can tilt the mirror up to watch it - it does not move.

I've also tested running very close up behind semi-trucks at those speeds and it seems to make no difference in the drone whether being out in the open or up close behind a big truck. If I'm on the gas at those speeds, it's there. So, I'm doubting it is wind noise, but cannot totally rule that out.

Just slowing down is not an option. Sometimes it's a beautifully smooth road early in the morning with no wind or traffic, and 65-70 mph is a great speed, or you need to pass, et.al. I live in northern NV. with long straight roads east of me for hours at a time, Sierra Nevadas to the west - 65+mph is going to happen, not all the time - but sometimes - and for extended periods.

Does getting the driveline professionally re-balanced really solve this drone? Isn't that what the JRide system was supposed to do, balance the driveshaft among other things? The sticker on the front 2ft. piece of driveshaft says Action Machine Co. of South Bend, Indiana. Did they or Jayhawk just get the balance wrong on the Redhawk line, or the 24B in particular? I'm so mad at myself for not adequately testing this speed in my test drive, I would have taken this rig off my list for consideration. I've had it for 3 weeks.

Then there is the loud knocking in the cabover portion when going over a rough freeway at whatever speed. It's between the inner and outer panels midway up the curve above the cabover bed, maybe a bit left of center. It's loud too, but much more infrequent so I will attack this later.

Camper_bob · 09-12-2019, 07:58 AM

Many people have taken their rigs to a driveline shop to have that drone taken care of.

Sure, the shaft is computer balanced, but apparently they way they hang it isn't quite right. Last I heard, the shop removed some adjustment shims from one of the carrier bearing brackets to make the shaft more straight and that solved the problem.

So, yes, I would take it to a good driveline shop and see what they can do for you.

Sorry, I have no input on the knocking. Perhaps there's a loose piece of lumber up there? I don't even know how to begin attacking that problem without making a HUGE mess...

FWIW, I can be found traveling between 65 and 70 on most days with good road and calm winds. Wind absolutely KILLS me though...

RetiredOne · 09-12-2019, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alazear

I've got a new 2020 Redhawk 24B. E450 platform was built in 2019. It's doing the same thing as mentioned in a pervious thread, a very pronounced drone beginning at 65mph exactly. It is solidly there when there is torque on the driveshaft and drops off when coasting or letting off the gas at that speed or above. By 66-68+ mph it's loud enough to want to wear ear plugs, no kidding; I'm considering it. It's ridiculously loud and annoying.

I get that same droning at the same speeds under load. Another member here said a driveline guy found that there were too many shims holding the hangar bearing for the driveshaft, causing an alignment issue. He claimed once they removed those shims, and made sure the shaft was straighter, the noise went away.

That's on my To-Do list, but not sure if I want to tackle that myself. The mechanical part is easy, and I see the shims above the hangar, but I don't know enough about drivelines, and don't want to cause a different issue.

Regarding the knocking in the upper cabover, another member here, Dr. Mike has the same issue and was trying to track it down. There's a thread in the Class C forum where you can read about it. He thinks maybe some glued in skeleton support pulled loose under the paneling.

t18skyguy · 09-12-2019, 08:51 AM

If you call Jayco and tell them the problem,they'll send you the PDF's of how the driveline should be set up, and the angles for each driveshaft. In a nutshell, you use a digital protractor, take a reading off the flange of the transmission, then each section of driveshaft should be within a certain range of that angle. Then you add or subtract metal shims above the carrier bearing. If you crawl under there you'll see them. Two or three metal plates above the driveshaft mounting points. The source for those plates is a place called L&W engineering at 574-825-5351 This is part of their directions;
Drive the unit to determine where the vibration is:
Vibration: shaking at high speed(45-65)
Shudder: shaking at low speed(30 mph)
You always want some shudder when you accelerate.
Vibration and no shudder, add shim to the rear carrier bearing
Lots of shudder, remove a shim from the rear carrier bearing.
Adjust the carrier bearing for good working angles.

greyhawktom · 09-12-2019, 09:28 AM

If its still in warranty, the dealer should be able to figure it out. although they can pain to put with.
Then if the fix screws up something its on them.

alazear · 09-12-2019, 08:22 PM

Thank you to those who responded so quickly. It's a great community here for sure. Although I'm sure I can get under there and add remove shims to spec., I agree that action comes with risk if I get it wrong. Since it's still under warranty I'm going to call Jayco to see what they'll pay for to have a local shop do it to spec and see what gets solved at what speeds. At least the consensus is it's the drive shaft angles as opposed to a mystery problem - which is very good. I know where to begin following in others footsteps.

I think I'll also inquire about the over the cab banging on rougher freeways. Maybe there is something there to be solved, but that one seems a harder one to attack successfully given its hidden location. I'll keep you posted what i find and how I do. Much appreciated. Does anyone happen to know the title of the previous thread on this issue so I can search for it?

alazear · 09-12-2019, 08:28 PM

I'll look up Dr. Mike's thread regarding the banging in the overhead cab.

Rustynuts · 09-12-2019, 08:28 PM

Do you by chance have frameless windows? The noise from the cabover might be coming from the windows. We had one break loose in our Seneca going down the highway at 65mph and shatter all over the fast lane. This is not a video of mine but but another Seneca where it was doing it on a kitchen window.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjSu...ature=youtu.be

RetiredOne · 09-12-2019, 09:17 PM

Don't think it's the windows. Two other 24B owners have reported the same thing (luckly, I don't hear it in mine). What they are suspecting is that the wooden frame/skeleton that was glued to the inside curve to be used as the base for the inside paneling of the cabover, broke loose from the cabover, and is rattling/banging against the cabover on bumps.

Could be that the boys at Jayco didn't use enough Liquid Nails when they attached the wooden framing....

Someone will need to cannibalize their paneling to see if that is the true issue.

alazear · 09-13-2019, 09:47 AM

I do have frameless windows, but like RetiredOne mentioned, I doubt this is the cause of the substantial banging we are hearing over rough freeway roads or other rough spots in the road we might hit. You need a continuously rough patch of road to really diagnose it I think. Otherwise, with just a random rough patch, it might be hard to tell the source. I was able to find this rough patch of road and my banging seems to be coming from inside the curved paneling of the cabover about midway up, maybe just left of center [a bit more toward the driver's side, but not much]. This contact point might be different for different 24B's, I would imagine depending on what's happening in the wall. I can put my hand on it while my wife drives and feel it hit and bang.

alazear · 09-13-2019, 12:00 PM

Update 1 on Issues in This Thread

Just got off the phone with Jayco customer service. Spoke to a very helpful and knowledgeable Customer Service Specialist, John Haines.

This is what I learned.

Vibration at 65 mph+ Issue: He recognized this immediately. He immediately sent out the "Vibration Fix Notes" .pdf file for the 65+ mph drone issue as soon as we hung up. He also mentioned I could either fix this myself or have a professional drive line shop do it for me and Jayco would reimburse me for the shop's cost with a lead time of 3-4 weeks for reimbursement. My choice.

Overhead Cab Banging Issue: John recognized my issue immediately with the 24B. He said that the cabover is constructed of aluminum framing as a base frame. Most likely he said the issue is that there was not enough spray foam insulation put in the space between the inner and outer walls and the aluminum framing is doing the banging or something else inside is loose in there due to lack of spray foam. However, until it's opened up, there is no way to tell for sure beforehand the exact banging cause. It said it's definitely a warranty issue and would need dealer attention to fix as it would involve opening up the inner panel and assessing the the problem from there. I asked if the recommended fix would also mean attaching the aluminum framing better or just adding more spray foam inside. He said it could involve both. He also said it may involve an additional piece of aluminum framing be installed as well.

I'll keep you posted on any progress I make.

alazear · 09-13-2019, 07:34 PM

Update #2:

I solved the 65+ mph drone with help from members here on this site and also Jayco customer service. I followed the directions given to me by Jayco in the post above in the .pdf they sent. What ended up working for me was removing both 1/4" metal shims = 1/2" total. There were 2 shims, each a 1/4" thick steel, above the last carrier bearing, the one at the front of the 3rd and final drive shaft. I started by removing just one shim and going for a test drive. Removing one shim, reduced the noise intensity, but did not eliminate it. I knew I was on the right track, so I removed the 2nd shim, and went for a second test drive and eliminated the 65+ mph drone. Done. There is still expected wind noise at 65-70 mph, but the driveline drone is now gone.

I'm not sure when I'll schedule the tear apart for the cabover curved wall yet with the banging, at the dealer. I'll probably call my local dealer in Reno, NV. and get their take on the timing for fixing this next week. During my test drives above, it does sound like aluminum framing hitting the wall paneling up there when hitting a rough patch in the road, but who knows until it's opened up...

RetiredOne · 09-13-2019, 08:31 PM

That's great news that you were able to eliminate that droning noise just by removing shims.

Any chance you can link that PDF note from Jayco here about it, or copy and paste the info in it so we can see their fix?

Thanks.

alazear · 09-13-2019, 08:58 PM

Here's the .pdf from Jayco attached [hopefully]. I did most, but not all of their instructions. I kind of just went for it in the end and then tested. I didn't have a digital level, and decided I was too cheap to buy one, so I downloaded one to my iPhone and used that. It probably only got me close... I skipped the string test all together. When measuring angles with my trusty iPhone, it gave a result to remove just one shim from the back carrier, but that just reduced the noise for me rather than eliminate it. Once I pulled the second shim, I'm hearing no drone. I just tested at 65-75 mph for a couple short highway runs, but I think I'm happy with the result so far.

alazear · 09-13-2019, 09:24 PM

I also used a floor jack to hold the weight of the driveshaft while I'll removed shims each time from the carrier. I'm not sure if the drive shaft would hit the ground after pulling apart at the slip junction nearby the rear carrier or not, but I'd didn't want to find out... and cause more problems. Any jack or jack stand or 2x4's stacked would do the same trick.

Also, the companion nuts above - the ones that the bolts screw into that you need undo to remove shims have a bit of weld to hold them in place from the factory. Nice touch. One of those welds held, the other did not. No big deal, you just need a 3/4" end wrench to hold the companion nut if it happens to break loose. Then use a 3/4 socket on the bolts. I had an impact gun which just sped the process up by a few seconds. I also hit the threads with WD-40 first.

Jungle · 09-18-2019, 03:09 PM

My suggestion is to call Jayco customer service directly at 1-800-517-9137. They will work with you and L & W, who modifies the chassis, to get your issue solved.

Johnynorthland · 09-18-2019, 03:47 PM

I’m wondering why my 2019 Redhawk 25R has had its Drone sound, (at 65ish), gone away on its own?
Anyone have any ideas? I did add rear airbags which raised the height a bit and a rear Super Steer Track bar.

drmike961 · 10-01-2019, 12:28 PM

I removed one of the carrier bearing shims discussed and took my 24B for a spin. The hum is now 80-90% improved. I did not take any angle measurements of the drive shaft but did make sure that it was marked properly along the length of the shaft. I considered pulling the second (last) shim but I think I will put more miles on it to ensure that it is necessary. I don't want to create other problems. I think that I can faintly hear the hum if I really listen but probably would never have noticed it if I wasn't addressing the problem.

RetiredOne · 10-22-2019, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drmike961

I removed one of the carrier bearing shims discussed and took my 24B for a spin. The hum is now 80-90% improved. I did not take any angle measurements of the drive shaft but did make sure that it was marked properly along the length of the shaft.

I went out today to fill up the propane, and was reminded of the "droning" noise. So, when I got home, I took your recommendation, and removed one of the shims (I had two).

Took the rig out for a test drive - AMAZING - droning noise totally gone. Ran it through the speeds, 65mph, 70, 75, nothing... that noise is completely gone... Who knew removing a 1/4" shim would make such a difference.

Another thing I noticed immediately. Just pulling out of my neighborhood, the drivetrain seemed quieter. Seems removing the shim also stopped a low speed accelleration hum/shutter/vibration that was there. I didn't realize it at first, but every time I accellerated from a stop (at a traffic light) or going around a corner, there was this low "groaning".

That noise has also ended, and the rig is so much quieter... only thing I hear now is wind noise.

Thanks for that tip!!!!!!!!!

drmike961 · 10-22-2019, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RetiredOne

I went out today to fill up the propane, and was reminded of the "droning" noise. So, when I got home, I took your recommendation, and removed one of the shims (I had two).

Took the rig out for a test drive - AMAZING - droning noise totally gone. Ran it through the speeds, 65mph, 70, 75, nothing... that noise is completely gone... Who knew removing a 1/4" shim would make such a difference.

Another thing I noticed immediately. Just pulling out of my neighborhood, the drivetrain seemed quieter. Seems removing the shim also stopped a low speed accelleration hum/shutter/vibration that was there. I didn't realize it at first, but every time I accellerated from a stop (at a traffic light) or going around a corner, there was this low "groaning".

That noise has also ended, and the rig is so much quieter... only thing I hear now is wind noise.

Thanks for that tip!!!!!!!!!

No problem but Alazear gets all the credit for this one. I still can't decide whether or not to pull my second shim out. My noise is very very faint now but still there. I would not notice it if I wasn't still listening for it.

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