Adding solar and replacing house batteries with lithium - issues?

[ed767]

Hi,

2019 Entegra Odyssey 24B - similar to Jayco rigs...

I'm adding the Renogy 400W solar system to my rig. The Adventurer controller support lithium. I'm also swapping out the terrible existing deep cycle batteries with one 200AH Lithium battery.

Does anyone have experience with the following:

1. Does the Odyssey standard charger work alongside the Renogy controller with the new lithium battery?

2. Do I need a $175 Mastervolt Charge Mate Pro 40 to limit current from the engine alternator?

3. Are the connectors standard with the GoPower "pre solar" plugs on the roof and at the battery? Does the Renogy connector just plug in?

Thanks,

Ed

[alazear]

I have a 2020 Redhawk 24B, probably very similar.

I don't have any answers for you, but will closely watch this thread.

I looked at solar + a single lithium battery a couple months ago, as you are now. I was told my converter manufacturer, the converter would needed to be upgraded to handle the lithium battery [as lithium apparently needs a higher charge rate than all other batteries, but the advantages of lithium are tremendous once installed]. I was told there was an aftermarket kit that swapped out some, but not all, of the internals of my existing converter to be compatible, or I could just opt for a new converter/inverter, rip the old one out, and go for a new one.

The rest of the solar install I was told was pretty standard fair, whatever that meant... as I have no history with solar, but would likely do the install myself and learn as I go.

Curious to see how you get on.

[ed767]

Ok, thanks - will keep you posted here.

[slopeshred]

Hi There, Hope I can help some.

I recently upgraded my 2020 Jayco GreyHawk 29MV with a similar set up to what you are trying to do. Answering your questions in line

1. In short no. The converter charger (smart wizard Intellepower) will not charge lithium batteries. It may if its very low but only at a trickle. Intellepower makes a direct replacement for lithium same mounting holes and all.. that is if you have the same converter.

2. I wont be much help here, I have heard that the lithium will put a big load on your alternator, I have a the Victron BMV-712 and have witnessed it putting about 40AH into the batteries while the coach is running. I am not sure if this is a problem or not.

3. Yes confirmed that the connectors on the roof are standard MC4 and the same that Renogy uses (I have a 400 watt kit as well)

One thing I did not consider is that once you upgrade to lithium you will not know how much battery you have left unless you get a shunt based battery monitor like the Victron so you may want to add one to your plan.

-Rob

[ed767]

Thanks Rob.

I'm calling Entegra/Jayco today to get some more clarity on all this.

[ed767]

Called Entegra - not helpful at all on this (and most of my other topics.... sigh, things have switched over there, probably since Covid, much worse support than I got last Fall)

1. Swapping out lead-acid batteries for lithium VOIDS the warranty for any devices connected to the batteries.

PERSONAL: I'm probably going to do it anyway as getting warranty work done is seemingly impossible at this point. I live 3 hours drive from the nearest dealer, who Entegra doesn't even recommend due to prior problems. They are also limiting "local jobbers" from reimbursement to only 5 jobs per ticket and will not reimburse multiple tickets as a workaround.

2. Anything related to solar and/or other batteries is considered aftermarket and they offer no support.

3. The battery company AmpereTime tells me that their 200Ah lithium battery does NOT need an alternator limiter device.

4. I have heard from someone who's friend ordered the "suitcase" Renogy portable panels and said that both shipments were damaged and made with shoddy construction - returned both. He recommends the much more expensive Vamp suitcase, available at AM Solar. He commented that he thinks Renogy roof panels are probably fine.

5. My local service center will install a 380W GoPower system for about $1,500. Renogy 400W kit less than $800 on Amazon, self install.

6. I also heard that PWM controllers (like you get in the Renogy kit) are not as good as MMPT by 20% efficiency. I'm checking into that more.

7. I ordered the Victron 712 but also heard that it's hard to program and less well made than Trimetric (Bogart Engineering) TM2030-RV.

Ed

[RetiredOne]

Actually, some of the converters have a switch on them to be able to charge lithium. Here's a diagram from my converter manual. You'll have to check to see if you have this on yours.

[ed767]

Thanks, yes my call to Progressive Dynamics indicated that I need to give the serial number to the support rep that will call me tomorrow.

I Will post results.

[slopeshred]

Re: programing the Victron is specific to the batteries that you have. You will need to ask the manufacture for the configuration settings. Once you have the settings make sure to calibrate the shunt, Zero Current calibration, with no voltage passing through it (do this before attaching solar) and calibration of the 100% SOC when you know they are both fully charged.

[ed767]

Thanks - good to know

[ed767]

Called Progressive Dynamics, gave them my serial number, and they said that my charger is NOT lithium ready. However, there are 2 options:

1. Buy a $28 dongle that plugs into the circuit board, funny thing is that you push a button and it stays valid for 4 hours, then resets. So I'll probably try this method for now. So, when you push the button, it will charge lithium with AC power (genny, shore) for 4 hours...

2. Buy a new circuit board for $187 from ltdrvparts.com, supposedly easy plug/play with a few screws and few wires to swap out... better longer-term solution.

Also, the battery manufacturer (AmpereTime) tells me that the battery BMS handles the chassis alternator current issue...

[JDooley]

I'm worried about an overload on the alternator trying to charge the house so I am researching the best method to remove the alternator from charging the house( just the chassis). I will charge with renogy 600w solar 24 v to 2 bb lithium . I will upgrade my lead acid charger to a lithium charger keeping my existing power panel for 120v charging. I've heard of alternators overheating while charging house batteries

[MFalcon]

Hi Ed. I have a 2015 Greyhawk 31DS and instead of installing a fixed solar system I use a portable solar set up from Zamp Solar to charge my LA battery while off grid camping. Of course my battery requirements maybe different than yours, but this option works well for me and thought I would pass it on. I enjoy the portable since I can park under shade trees and still utilize solar to it's best by moving it around to follow the sun.

[dvspl]

I've also recently started designing a plan to upgrade the batteries on my 2020 Greyhawk 29MV to LIFEPO4. The factory battery won't last through the night when boondocking, just to keep fridge and a few lights going. Here are a few things that I've learned:
1) I'm trying to upgrade to 200AH. There is VERY limited space under the entry step where the battery is now. It's sized for 2 Group 24 batteries. I'm trying to keep them there, but so far the only small-enough options I've found are 2 Renogy 100AH, 2 Lion Safari UT1300, or 1 LifeBlue 200AH.
2) I have PD9260C converter. Both Renogy and LifeBlue suggested using the PD remote pendant to manually force boost mode to charge their batteries. It's less than $20 on Amazon.
3) Both also said a DC to DC charger would be needed between the alternator and batteries to prevent overloading the alternator.
4) The DIYSolar web forum has been very helpful to me. It has a really good schematic for 400W solar upgrade to RVs. Many knowledgeable and helpful participants in their forum, also. Here's a link to the diagrams: https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/
and here's the link to the forum: https://diysolarforum.com/

Hope this is helpful. I'm following your project with interest!

[bob393]

This is a great project, I may hold off on my lead acid install in favor of Lithium route.

[Trapper2020]

Watching with great interest. My big issue is where to place the new and additional batteries. Added second battery last year so I could run furnace through nights at Yellowstone. Now looking for ways to not run generator. Hate the noise. Safe travels


Enjoy the journey

[ed767]

On the road update.

1. We had to use a Sawzall to cut out the battery compartment (step) lips and the battery box (2 battery) holder. The lithium battery I bought directly from China (on Amazon) fit by 1/32 of an inch - very lucky.

2. I'm not using an alternator current limiter - maybe I'm fooling myself but it seems fine since I have the Victron Bluetooth 712 battery monitor, I'm able to see the current - it's around 28A, sometimes 33A... about the same as the charger/converter built into the coach. The battery can take 100A so it's well under the stress point for that. The alternator replacement part says it's a 120A alternator (and I read that on the Odyssey spec sheet,) so I feel like it's ok, but a recent poster said 2 different lithium companies say different.

3. I LOVE LOVE LOVE the lithium battery now that I'm on the road, it holds such as high voltage for so long that you don't even notice it's going down. Right now it dipped below 30% so we will get to a hookup site in order to charge up (and our 3 e-bikes batteries that need 360W for about 4 hours combined.

4. The $28 dongle on the Progressive Dynamics stock converter/charger works great, and with the Victron battery monitor, I can exactly what's happening. Very reassuring.

5. Since I'm up in Oregon and it's October, I'm not able to test the solar panels very well but I did the install myself and can see that they are generating electricity for sure, just nowhere near the 400W nominal. I only expect 300-320W in the summer, with full sun overhead, so getting 100-200W now midday seems fine. The PWM controller is not 100% efficient I've read. I might upgrade to an MMPT controller if it will really provide more power to make it worthwhile.

Open question: still uncertain about the alternator but I'm at 1100 miles on this trip and it hasn't fried yet - love to hear from others who are not using the current limiter - I saw one other guy on a forum somewhere (perhaps here) not using one as well. Again, the battery manufacturer said it's not needed. But they aren't USA based.

Ed

[RGD615]

Starting the conversion to 200 ah lithium next week ordering the batteries. One of three choices. 2 Battleborns (tried and true but large most expensive) 2 SOK 100ah (have been getting good reviews (2 for a little more than one battleborn) then the new comer Powerwall BigBattery.com 170 ah for about the price of one battleborn) the latter 2 are totally serviceable, All can push the 150amp continuous shooting for. I have replaced the 1000w inverter (under the bed) with a 2000 w Xantrex that I located in the compartment next to the battery and upgraded to 4/0 cable. I have added a Epever MPPT solar controller to my 400 watts of roof mounted panels. I have ordered a replacement for my progressive dynamics charge controller as it wont handle the 14.6 V needed. I'm still concerned about the alternator issue. Any one have any battery recomendations...before I spend all of my money. Thanks Richard

[msherw]

I just replaced the OEM wet cell with an OPTIMA AGM blue top marine deep cycle. The difference was amazing. 36 hours usage with fridge running on LP and using the LP furnace sparingly. Remember, the fridge brain and the furnace blower are 12VDC so they will operate if they have sufficient battery.

However...I know our Onan will work to charge quickly if needed. If we are in a NO GENERATOR zone, I have a 100 watt Renogy portable panel as a back up. Also, you can start the big chassis engine and charge the house as well. So options galore.

We have a Progressive Dynamics charger/converter with the Li switch but I don't ever plan to switch. Just offering some ideas.

[RGD615]

I have moved everything ... I'll start posting photos when i get the batteries...so it will be a minute.