All Outlets Work Except Front TV/Entertainment Center

[Handy]

Hi Gang,

I'm a brand new owner (2007 Jayco Melbourne 29D) and I'm fixing a few things on this coach.

At first a few of my outlets wouldn't work so I tried the GFCI. It wouldn't reset so I switched that out and boom, all is good... except the two outlets on the front of the coach in the entertainment center.

I have a built in Xantrex inverter and I have yet to figure out what it does because while I'm on battery all of my lights, fans, gas pilot starters work without the inverter switch in the ON position (green light on).

No matter what I do (generator on or off, inverter on or off) I can't get these dang outlets to work at the front behind where the TV cabinet is. Any help is appreciated. I've never seen outlets like these before (never owned a camper or motorhome before) and I'm not sure how to test to see what's going on since every other outlet is fine now.

I'm thinking a wire nut might have gotten loose in the traveling, etc... but I have to check that in the morning.

See the pics... thanks!

[RVermont]

The front tv outlet has a solenoid attached to cut out power if the ignition is on. If you have access to a proximity electric tester the 110 power wire should have power. If you have power on the line then the solenoid is open. Check to be sure your key is off. There are several posts on here that explain this more fully but you can cut open of the solenoid wires and the unit should run after that. This was a topic in the past week or so with a good description of how to fix.


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[Robbbyr]

Is the chassis ignition on? That will "kill" those outlets.

[Handy]

Thanks! I had no idea this has a separate solenoid. Where would that solenoid be located? I'd love to find that other post about this issue.

[Handy]

Originally Posted by Robbbyr

Is the chassis ignition on? That will "kill" those outlets.

No, it hasn't been on or had the key in the ignition. Although we'd love for the TV to work so the kids can watch while we travel. Is there a way to bypass this and why would they even do that?

[Robbbyr]

The relay on the back of the outlet can be "disabled" so you can run the front TV while driving. Many threads on the forum about how to do it, you are mostly there since you have the outlet exposed. That is the relay on the back that actually "cuts" the power when the ignition is on.

However you don't have power to the outlet ever if I understand things properly. On many Jayco models the power comes out of your power center where the 110-volt breakers are located. You may have one breaker marked "inverter" that send its power through the inverter when 110-volts is available from shore power or the generator. When no shore power or generator and the inverter is "on", the inverter takes 12-volt direct current battery power and changes it to 110-volt alternating current power. There could be a blown fuse or breaker on the inverter preventing it from passing power to the TV outlet.

I also have a Xantrex in my Seneca, but we could be wired quite differently. I have two sets of breakers that have to be "on" for my inverter to power anything. There is the one in the main power box but I also have a completely separate breaker box just for the inverter-fed circuits.

Hopefully an owner with a similar unit can give you specifics.

[RVermont]

Robbbyr has it nailed. A couple extra thoughts. Does the microwave work? Normally the inverter provides power to the microwave and TVs. If the microwave works then you at least know you have power through the inverter. One of the tool you can use is a proximity or non contact voltage tester. You just hold the tool up to a wire and if the wire is “hot” then there is power in the wire. This would quickly tell you if there is power in the wires you have in your photos.

Simple electric flow in most coaches might be different on your unit.
Shore power in. Feeds a transfer switch if you have a generator then to electric fuse panel. Fuse panel inverter fuse to inverter. Inverter has a relay which switches to battery generated 110 if no 110 power feeding from the shore power. it then flows back to the fuse panel to the tv/microwave fuse. Then to the outlet.


So if you have a non contact tester
Test at outlet then
Test 110 wiring on inverter with shore power on then again with shore power off

If you have power on Romex cable going into outlet but no power at outlet then your relay is keeping the power off. If no power on the romex then back to the microwave outlet. Does it work? If not then check fuses again physically turn them off and back on. Recheck if no power test wiring at inverter to verify that you have 110 in and out of inverter.
Best wishes.





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[Robbbyr]

Originally Posted by RVermont

A couple extra thoughts. Does the microwave work? Normally the inverter provides power to the microwave and TVs. If the microwave works then you at least know you have power through the inverter. One of the tool you can use is a proximity or non contact voltage tester. You just hold the tool up to a wire and if the wire is “hot” then there is power in the wire. This would quickly tell you if there is power in the wires you have in your photos.

Simple electric flow in most coaches might be different on your unit.
Shore power in. Feeds a transfer switch if you have a generator then to electric fuse panel. Fuse panel inverter fuse to inverter. Inverter has a relay which switches to battery generated 110 if no 110 power feeding from the shore power. it then flows back to the fuse panel to the tv/microwave fuse. Then to the outlet.


So if you have a non contact tester
Test at outlet then
Test 110 wiring on inverter with shore power on then again with shore power off

If you have power on Romex cable going into outlet but no power at outlet then your relay is keeping the power off. If no power on the romex then back to the microwave outlet. Does it work? If not then check fuses again physically turn them off and back on. Recheck if no power test wiring at inverter to verify that you have 110 in and out of inverter.
Best wishes.





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Unless the previous owner changed things, Jayco did not include the microwave in the inverter circuits. I think the 2007 models only had a 400 watt inverter. But the other troubleshooting tips RVermont offers are valid.

[Handy]

Thanks for the quick and detailed responses! I’ll go check today if I can break free for a good chunk of time to test it. Doesn’t anyone know where the inverter is actually located on this unit and if the microwave isn’t connected like it was said for this model, any other outlets or devices that should use the inverter I can test? You guys are awesome thank you!!

[Handy]

Last question, can I just change out these outlets with standard household outlets and no worry about the relays as mentioned in other threads or will this cause an issue I don’t know about?

[WinnieView]

Originally Posted by Handy

Thanks for the quick and detailed responses! I’ll go check today if I can break free for a good chunk of time to test it. Doesn’t anyone know where the inverter is actually located on this unit and if the microwave isn’t connected like it was said for this model, any other outlets or devices that should use the inverter I can test? You guys are awesome thank you!!

The inverter may be located under the bed under a wooden panel.

The chances are only the front TV and possibly other electronics plugged into the same outlet are powered by the inverter.

The inverter is most likely small something such as 400 watts and is not designed to power more than a few devices, for a few hours (all dependent on how many coach batteries there are and their amp hours).

[RVermont]

No issue with replacing it. You just have to decide what to do with the solenoid wiring.

Not sure where the unit is however they are ideally pretty close to the batteries. Coming off the batteries you should have two fairly major wires. One will run to the coach 12 system. The other directly into the inverter. There might be an inline fuse on the line to inverter and if you find the inverter is not running you can check that.


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[WinnieView]

Originally Posted by Handy

Last question, can I just change out these outlets with standard household outlets and no worry about the relays as mentioned in other threads or will this cause an issue I don’t know about?

Yes. That would be a simple solution.

[Robbbyr]

Originally Posted by Handy

Last question, can I just change out these outlets with standard household outlets and no worry about the relays as mentioned in other threads or will this cause an issue I don’t know about?

As others have said you can substitute a regular duplex outlet. I would suggest just cutting the "trigger" wire and then putting on a wire nut to make sure it cannot contact anything else and then tuck it back into the junction box before replacing the outlet.

If you can locate your inverter and determine the model, we can easily find an owner's manual that will likely have troubleshooting steps.

[Handy]

Originally Posted by Robbbyr

As others have said you can substitute a regular duplex outlet. I would suggest just cutting the "trigger" wire and then putting on a wire nut to make sure it cannot contact anything else and then tuck it back into the junction box before replacing the outlet.

If you can locate your inverter and determine the model, we can easily find an owner's manual that will likely have troubleshooting steps.

I've yet to determine from the first photos I posted, which one is the tigger wire? I'm thinking it's the red one since most outlets I've dealt with just have black and white wires. Is this correct?

[Robbbyr]

Originally Posted by Handy

I've yet to determine from the first photos I posted, which one is the tigger wire? I'm thinking it's the red one since most outlets I've dealt with just have black and white wires. Is this correct?

First a safety announcement: If you are not completely comfortable working on line voltage systems I would recommend you leave that work to someone qualified. Should you elect to tackle this yourself, please remember safety first! Generator and inverter off, and the unit unplugged from shore power to make sure you don't get electrocuted. Ideally you should even disconnect the batteries to kill the 12-volt side of the wiring too. So endeth the lecture!

Now your question: Yes, I believe it to be the red wire in your picture. The black, white, and ground (bare) wire coming from the romex are part of the 110-volt system and what you will need to transfer to a replacement outlet. I believe I see that the black ("hot") wire from the romex is twisted and connects to the relay through the yellow wirenut laying in the box. You should be able to disconnect it there so as to connect it directly to your replacement outlet.

There appears to be a red wire and another white wire going into the relay that operate the "kill" feature, both will need to be isolated from each other and anything else.

[Handy]

Alright! So here is what I found.

Popped the slide out so I could get to the inverter, figured it was under the bed...yep!

Then I noticed the white button on the inverter was popped out. Tried to push it back in and it kept popping out with the generator on. I pushed I back in probably 5 times.

Had power to all outlets except the front...then I decided to unplug the inverter from its power outlet...guess what? Power at the front outlets with the generator running and inverter unplugged.

When plugged in the inverter was being very loud. Decided to try some sequences and even turned on the ignition and started it up. After I did that the noise died down and when plugged in the inverter wouldn’t pop it’s white switch with the generator on.

Turned the generator off and had the inverter plugged in and not plugged in, didn’t matter, plugs at the front worked either way.

So problem solved except for the fact that the Inverter Switch in the command center does nothing. Even in the off position the front outlets have power and lights work, etc... Not sure what that switch actually does.

Turned off everything and inverter was still humming a bit. Had to use the battery kill switch to get everything to stop.

My worry is that without the inverter on/off switch working I fear it will always drain my batteries. I also don’t know what I did to help it and hope it doesn’t fail while on the road.

Found that the ignition on DOES kill my front outlets so going to change those out with regular outlets soon.

What does the outlet do where the inverter is plugged in? Seemed to work with it unplugged better than plugged in until the switch stopped popping out on the inverter itself. Would it be better to leave it UNPLUGGED Forever?

I’ll post photos as soon as I can, also have video.

[WinnieView]

Bear in mind that the inverter will pass through power from shore or generator and essentially is irrelevant.
So, perhaps the switch does work but it will only be effective and needed when there is no "external power", but only battery.

The inverter plug is for the pass through power.

We have taken pictures with our phone of almost everything on our MH, such as upgrades, original equipment, and any mods.

Here is our inverter manual if you have no other reference. Yours may be different but not in function.

[txhood]

The trigger wire should be purple. Make sure you are not on shore power and that the generator is not running. Snip the purple wire going into the outlet and you are good to go, even with the engine running.

[Handy]

Originally Posted by 2008Seneca

Bear in mind that the inverter will pass through power from shore or generator and essentially is irrelevant.
So, perhaps the switch does work but it will only be effective and needed when there is no "external power", but only battery.

The inverter plug is for the pass through power.

We have taken pictures with our phone of almost everything on our MH, such as upgrades, original equipment, and any mods.

Here is our inverter manual if you have no other reference. Yours may be different but not in function.

That's what is strange. With NO external power and running ONLY on batteries the inverter switch makes no difference if the front outlets work or if any other appliances work. Front outlets work fine, but no other outlets work on inverter (to be expected I gather). So I'm still puzzled by the inverter switch in the command center.

Thanks for the PDF and all the support!