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Old 01-13-2020, 06:30 PM   #1
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Class C & Super C handling Comparison

I need a non-bias, real life, comparison on how these rigs handle compared to each other. Iíve only owned 2 Cís (1 was a sprinter) and a B. Would like to upgrade in the next couple years. Has Anyone owned one of each, (super C and C)? And if so which chassis did/do you have? It took me a lot of money and effort to get my present Redhawk 28.8í Class C E450 to handle decently!
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Old 01-13-2020, 06:47 PM   #2
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We have a 2016 Seneca on a M2 Freightliner chassis and love it as it came from the factory Les
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Old 01-13-2020, 07:25 PM   #3
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I had two prior Ford-chassis motorhomes, a 1992 Gulfstream Ultra and then a 2006 Chateau 31F. I had both aligned to provide more caster which helped the "wandering" but they still were very prone to crosswinds and passing trucks. Two hands on the wheel during those situations! On the 2006 I also installed Koni shocks which calmed the ride somewhat.

I bought my Seneca in late 2014 and I did upgrade the front shocks to the same ones later installed on Senecas as part of the J-Ride package. Those Bilstein shocks made the ride much better and stopped the rhythmic "porpoising" that would develop on interstates with regular pavement breaks. The Seneca is very much better at resisting crosswinds and passing trucks, I suspect we now cause other vehicles to be disturbed. The rear air ride in the Seneca is far more compliant than the leaf springs present in my Ford-based units. My prior units would bounce you right out of the rear bed at highway speeds; I have taken a couple of catnaps in the back of the Seneca while the wife drives, and while not glass-smooth, I did nap.

To sum things up driving my Fords would tire me out after a day behind the wheel. I can go much longer stress-free in the Seneca.
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Old 01-14-2020, 07:04 AM   #4
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We have a 2016 Seneca on a M2 Freightliner chassis and love it as it came from the factory Les
My husband and I are interested in a 2015 Jayco Seneca37TS. I believe it comes with a Cummins 6.7L ISB 340hp ( not sure of torque). It states itís GCWR is 33,000lbs. Our concern is pulling power pulling a vehicle in traffic. Any thoughts on that? Not sure what your rig has
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Old 01-14-2020, 07:46 AM   #5
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My husband and I are interested in a 2015 Jayco Seneca37TS. I believe it comes with a Cummins 6.7L ISB 340hp ( not sure of torque). It states itís GCWR is 33,000lbs. Our concern is pulling power pulling a vehicle in traffic. Any thoughts on that? Not sure what your rig has
All of the 2012-up Freightliner Senecas have the Cummins ISB 6.7 liter engine. 2012 to early 2018's have 340 horsepower and 700 lb/ft of torque. The 2018.5 and up have 360 horsepower and 800 lb/ft of torque. You can have Cummins "uprate" the horsepower and torque of the earlier models to match the newer ratings. I did and am very pleased with the power.
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Old 01-14-2020, 08:06 AM   #6
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At what year did DEF fluid start ?

And what years don’t have the Fuel tank cross over? I wouldn’t want to have to fuel each side tank separately! I know there’s a pump to cross the fuel over, but I’ve heard it’s slow as molasses!
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Old 01-14-2020, 08:41 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Johnynorthland View Post
I need a non-bias, real life, comparison on how these rigs handle compared to each other. Iíve only owned 2 Cís (1 was a sprinter) and a B. Would like to upgrade in the next couple years. Has Anyone owned one of each, (super C and C)? And if so which chassis did/do you have? It took me a lot of money and effort to get my present Redhawk 28.8í Class C E450 to handle decently!
I had a 30 foot Class C on a Ford E450 chassis, a 38 foot Class A on the Ford F53 chassis and now the 2020 Entegra Accolade 37TS (Seneca by a different name) all within the past 10 years. The Accolade is on the S2RV chassis which has the single 100 gallon fuel tank between the frame rails and fills from the driver's side.

As to handling the Accolade is a dream to drive compared to the other two motor homes. The ride is as smooth as can be given road conditions and I do not feel any push from other vehicles. The 360HP Cummins is a great power plant. I have to use cruise control because this coach has put me in reckless driving territory (80MPH in Virginia) without me realizing we were there. If I didn't hook it up myself I would never know I was towing a 5K Jeep Grand Cherokee.

Now to other questions fuel fill and def. If you want single fuel fill you need to look for one on the S2RV chassis and they will use def. I believe the S2RV came out in 2018.5. If you want something that does not use def then you will have the dual tanks. That appears to be a trade off you'll have to make.

Enjoy the search.
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Old 01-14-2020, 08:53 AM   #8
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Thanks Dave! Wife doesn’t like the truck look but I think I can get her past that.

She wants a Class A DP next, I’m not so sure about that. I like the idea of access to the engine and the better handling I’ll get on the super C chassis. Plus it is safer to drive. I’m guessing it’s easier to maintain and possibly cheaper than a DP A.

I had a sprinter diesel, although much different than any Super C, I wasn’t that impressed with it. It was a bit underpowered when towing and it had a weird wheelbase that wasn’t wide enough and made it feel top heavy. My Ford V10 does a better job at towing!

How are these super C Rigs on stopping power?

John
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Old 01-14-2020, 09:25 AM   #9
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Thanks Dave! Wife doesnít like the truck look but I think I can get her past that.

She wants a Class A DP next, Iím not so sure about that. I like the idea of access to the engine and the better handling Iíll get on the super C chassis. Plus it is safer to drive. Iím guessing itís easier to maintain and possibly cheaper than a DP A.

I had a sprinter diesel, although much different than any Super C, I wasnít that impressed with it. It was a bit underpowered when towing and it had a weird wheelbase that wasnít wide enough and made it feel top heavy. My Ford V10 does a better job at towing!

How are these super C Rigs on stopping power?

John
We looked at a number of Class A DPs before going Super C. During the test drives I made the DW sit in the passenger seat and she hated the feeling of no safety or structure in the event of a from end collision. She hated our gasser for the same reason. Another issue was with the Class A DPs we looked at there was minimal use of the interior features of the coach with slides in. On our 37TS we would have no problems using almost everything with all slides in. We can't access a couple of bedroom drawers with the slide in but we load items in case we have to use the coach with all slides retracted.

Before we bought I called my local Freightliner dealer and was informed they only service Class A diesels one day per week and there is a 25.00 per hour up charge due to engine local and accessibility. No restrictions or up charge on the S2 for M2 chassis rigs since no interior access is required other than through the cab doors.

Between engine braking and the air brakes I have no issues at all with stopping power. Much more responsive than my class a gasser.
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Old 01-14-2020, 09:33 AM   #10
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Dave have you’ve done any suspension upgrades or any upgrades that you did that you wish were included by manufacturer?

Trying to get a good idea of my total cost. After buying 3 new rigs We might buy used when the tome comes.

And thanks for your service Dave!
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Old 01-14-2020, 10:01 AM   #11
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Dave have youíve done any suspension upgrades or any upgrades that you did that you wish were included by manufacturer?

Trying to get a good idea of my total cost. After buying 3 new rigs We might buy used when the tome comes.

And thanks for your service Dave!
No. We have done no suspension mods and I feel none are needed. The coach handles extremely well as is.

If you buy used, have the coach aligned. We bought new and during the test drive I told the dealer that the steering wheel needed to be centered and there was a slight pull to the right (maybe there was, maybe there wasn't I'll never tell) so they had to get it aligned as part of the purchase (Jayco test drive warranty requirement). I read the warranty before the test drive.

The one thing that really sold us on the 37TS is the opposing wall slides in the living area. With both slides out the living area rivals any DP that I have been in.

Mods listed on the forum that I am considering for the future are:

The suspension air dump
Hot water circulating system

We have added

Valve stem extensions for the inner duals and had the outer dual valve stems rotated out for better installation of my TPMS
Mobile Eye installed prior to delivery
Solar panel and controller installed prior to delivery
Vent cover installed prior to delivery
Winegard Connect 2 4G+LTE WiFi extender and range booster installed prior to delivery

FWIW, we bought this as our retirement rig. In August I am going to retire from the productive segment of society join the DW in enjoying the fruits of our labor. The DW has already planned five trips of 5 or more days before I even retire this year. Luckily I work from home when not traveling and my client knows the coach is an extension of my home.
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Old 01-14-2020, 10:22 AM   #12
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Thanks again Dave, and good luck!

Why The suspension air dump &
Hot water circulating system upgrades/additions?

I have much to lear about these rigs before I make a sound decision!

John
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Old 01-14-2020, 10:45 AM   #13
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At what year did DEF fluid start ?

And what years donít have the Fuel tank cross over? I wouldnít want to have to fuel each side tank separately! I know thereís a pump to cross the fuel over, but Iíve heard itís slow as molasses!
All of the Freightliner Senecas have DEF systems. The 2012 to early 2108's built on the M2 chassis have the dual saddle tanks. There is no transfer pump between tanks, it is an Equiflo system that levels the tanks passively. Dual fuel dispensers in the truck lanes makes fueling relatively easy. Nothing to be scared of there!

The 2018.5 units built on the S2RV chassis have a single 100-gallon (between the frame rails) fuel tank. Only issue I have heard lately is you have to move the newer rigs at the pumps if you want DEF and diesel at the same time since they are so far apart. On my M2 they are right beside each other.
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Old 01-14-2020, 10:58 AM   #14
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Thanks again Dave, and good luck!

Why The suspension air dump &
Hot water circulating system upgrades/additions?

I have much to lear about these rigs before I make a sound decision!

John
Since the Senecas (2013-up) have rear air suspensions the air dump system many of us have installed takes the airbags out of the leveling equation. With the air bags inflated many of us found that the front of the rig had to be raised way up to level, even sometimes to the point of lifting the front tires off the ground! But by dumping the rear bags it levels more predictably without raising the front end too much. Many other similar Super C units come from the factory with dumps, Jayco chooses not to offer them.

As far as the hot water recirculation system - it saves water when dry camping. Instead of wasting water down the drain waiting for it to get hot, I push a button and for 30 seconds my system purges the cold water in the lines and returns it to the fresh water tank. Not a drop lost! But it did require some significant disassembly to install, all my neighbors thought (now know!) I am nuts. But even when on full hookups I still use the recirc, it is just nice to have hot water right there and not waste it down the drain.
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:13 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Johnynorthland View Post
Thanks again Dave, and good luck!

Why The suspension air dump &
Hot water circulating system upgrades/additions?

I have much to lear about these rigs before I make a sound decision!

John
Air dump is to lower the rear suspension before leveling the coach. Should result in leveling without going too high at the steps.

Hot water circulation is to get hot water at the shower and sink faucets faster. Would require less waste of water and less filling of the grey water tank if boon docking.

One of the Seneca owners mentioned that a work. around for the air dump is to level, which will release air from the rear suspension, retract the jacks and then level. again. I will try that in my driveway and see how it works. The mod is not necessarily a high priority.

Not sure how much boon docking we will be doing so again this is not a high priority mod.
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Old 01-14-2020, 12:33 PM   #16
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Like others have said, handling of a Super C over a class A or C is night and day right off the lot. The only suspension add-on I have done is to add a Safe T Plus steering stabilizer mainly for blowout safety...My dad had one on his DP when he had a blowout and he swears by them to help stay in control. I also had an Alignment done at Freightliner, it cost more but it is a 4 wheel alignment and my rear axle was off more than the front toe was, drives much better now.


Mods are all owner preference but at the top of my list as a must do is Air bag dump.
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Old 06-30-2020, 02:17 PM   #17
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Like others have said, handling of a Super C over a class A or C is night and day right off the lot. The only suspension add-on I have done is to add a Safe T Plus steering stabilizer mainly for blowout safety...My dad had one on his DP when he had a blowout and he swears by them to help stay in control. I also had an Alignment done at Freightliner, it cost more but it is a 4 wheel alignment and my rear axle was off more than the front toe was, drives much better now.


Mods are all owner preference but at the top of my list as a must do is Air bag dump.
Did you do this on your own? How does it drive after it was installed? I just picked up a 2020 Seneca and noticed a bit of drift from wind/large trucks passing. I'm sure its minimal compared to other vehicles but your comments and watching the blowout video on the Safe T Plus website are making me seriously consider this mod!
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Old 06-30-2020, 05:48 PM   #18
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An alignment is a must!! I suffered on a cross country trip Salt Lake-Spokane-Bartlett,TN because our 2017 Seneca was horribly out of alignment. Jayco approved a reimbursement. The heavy truck alignment center also trued the tires (really smoothed the ride), and used a machine to mount the tire/wheels centered on the axles. Heavy truck wheels/lug nuts don't center the wheel like they do on an automobile.

I added a Safe-T-Plus during this trip to dampen the winds through the passes, and the trucks. What a difference! The trip from Salt Lake - Spokane was pure white knuckle. Several times I thought we were going to crash.

I also added a Davis TruTrack from Roadmaster.
https://www.roadmasterinc.com/produc...c/trutrac.html

After all of this she cruises down the road like a dream. No more death grips.

One thing I've learned to do when a semi is going to pass is to pull as far right as safely possible. Many times the semi driver will do the opposite. This gives the air that is being compressed between us more space to dissipate.
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Old 07-01-2020, 12:53 PM   #19
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My 2019 Seneca 37K has the 100 Gallon Fuel tank on the left side. It is great at truck diesel and no leaving pump with one side only filled up.
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Old 07-01-2020, 01:37 PM   #20
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We purchased a 2015 36FK on the Freightliner M2 chassis. Absolutely nothing has been done to the suspension / steering since we drove it off the lot. We tow our Toad on a custom built trailer that also hauls our toys. With having all the stuff on the trailer allows us to run at the speed limit on most highways and interstates (we generally keep it under 75) and it handles excellent, even when we are being passed by a real fast Semi.

Prior to that - Regular Class C on the Chevrolet G30 chassis. I had upgraded the suspension twice, removed the Hellwig overloads and changed out the factory leaf springs / shocks. Aftermarket performance mods. Performance Exhaust, lots of stuff that is not needed on the Seneca.
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