Considering getting rid of Transfer Switch

[rgolding]

We are on our 3rd automatic transfer switch in 5 years. The first replacement was under warranty. I paid for the second replacement, with the 3rd unit and it just went out.

When the second one went out, it was with a need that I couldn't get 110 service and the Transfer Switch, would not stay engaged. I called our dealer service representative and he said I could wire around it for direct shore power. By putting the output leads of the Transfer Switch on the 110 volt input side. This worked and got us 110 volt service, until new Transfer Switch arrived.

As I had time to think about all of this and the replacement of the Transfer Switch is in an inconvienient location under the bed, I realized I could make it portable by using male and female 50 amp 110 volt range plugs. Therefore all the wiring is done in a convienient spot and you just get under the bed to plug it in. This also gives the ease of just removing the Transfer Switch, if it fails again. This worked great! And when the switch failed the 3rd time, I quickly unplugged from the Transfer Switch, hooked directly to the shore power, and we were back in business. Only problem was I had to put the back slide out and get under the bed to get around the Tranfer Switch.

We never fire up the generator, while being hooked to shore power. When unplugged from shore power I have a dummy female plug I always put over the 110 volt male plug to protect the prongs. I'm considering putting a 50 amp female plug to the generator in the shore power compartment and always have the 110 volt system hooked to the generator, unless we are in a campsite with shore power.

If I do this, why do I ever need the Transfer Switch? It has failed 3 times and I really can't come up with a reason to replace it.

All thoughts are appreciated. Thank you in advance.

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by rgolding

We are on our 3rd automatic transfer switch in 5 years. The first replacement was under warranty. I paid for the second replacement, with the 3rd unit and it just went out.

When the second one went out, it was with a need that I couldn't get 110 service and the Transfer Switch, would not stay engaged. I called our dealer service representative and he said I could wire around it for direct shore power. By putting the output leads of the Transfer Switch on the 110 volt input side. This worked and got us 110 volt service, until new Transfer Switch arrived.

As I had time to think about all of this and the replacement of the Transfer Switch is in an inconvienient location under the bed, I realized I could make it portable by using male and female 50 amp 110 volt range plugs. Therefore all the wiring is done in a convienient spot and you just get under the bed to plug it in. This also gives the ease of just removing the Transfer Switch, if it fails again. This worked great! And when the switch failed the 3rd time, I quickly unplugged from the Transfer Switch, hooked directly to the shore power, and we were back in business. Only problem was I had to put the back slide out and get under the bed to get around the Tranfer Switch.

We never fire up the generator, while being hooked to shore power. When unplugged from shore power I have a dummy female plug I always put over the 110 volt male plug to protect the prongs. I'm considering putting a 50 amp female plug to the generator in the shore power compartment and always have the 110 volt system hooked to the generator, unless we are in a campsite with shore power.

If I do this, why do I ever need the Transfer Switch? It has failed 3 times and I really can't come up with a reason to replace it.

All thoughts are appreciated. Thank you in advance.

That's how many were wired years ago. The ATS just make things easier. What switch are you buying? It seems weird that you are having such issues when other people aren't posting with the same problem.

[che57vy]

I wonder if he has been transferring with something on like ac or a lot of load which is hard on contacts in the switch

[Camper_bob]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

That's how many were wired years ago. The ATS just make things easier. What switch are you buying? It seems weird that you are having such issues when other people aren't posting with the same problem.

+1

This is the way my in-laws' rig is wired. Their generator is after market. So when you want to run the generator, you basically just plug the shore power into the genny, and you're good to go.

I agree the ATS is convenient, but I'd have a hard time replacing it (and certainly NOT with the same model that had already failed 3 times) if I were you too.

I had mine open late last year, and after almost 2 years in service, it still looked brand new inside. No scoring or carbon buildup on the contacts at all. And while I'm not SUPER conscientious about it, I try not to "hot switch" (allow the ATS to switch sources with a large draw on the circuit like an AC unit). But it has happened a few times...

[norty1]

The first class A, (winnebago) we had was equipped with a 30a receptacle in the generator compart. When we were using shore power we plugged the pedestal power extension cord into that receptacle. When we left the campground, we plugged the short 30a cord from the generator into that same receptacle.

If we needed the generator on the road, we could start it from the dashboard inside.

Oh, things were so much simpler in those days! If I had one that kept burning up the ATS, I believe I would rewire it the old way and never have any more problem.

[rgolding]

Originally Posted by che57vy

I wonder if he has been transferring with something on like ac or a lot of load which is hard on contacts in the switch

He is me and no nothing is on or running when switch is made between shore power and the generator. That was what was given as to the reason the first one went out under warranty and at that time I couldn't verify. Since then. I don't believe I've ever had anything running when power was changed from Generator to Shore Power.

Unit is a Intell-Power, Model PD52DCS

[Cavie]

Originally Posted by Camper_bob

+1

This is the way my in-laws' rig is wired. Their generator is after market. So when you want to run the generator, you basically just plug the shore power into the genny, and you're good to go.

I agree the ATS is convenient, but I'd have a hard time replacing it (and certainly NOT with the same model that had already failed 3 times) if I were you too.

I had mine open late last year, and after almost 2 years in service, it still looked brand new inside. No scoring or carbon buildup on the contacts at all. And while I'm not SUPER conscientious about it, I try not to "hot switch" (allow the ATS to switch sources with a large draw on the circuit like an AC unit). But it has happened a few times...

That would go BOOM! but your on the right tract. You plug the shore power into the Rv. Or the Generator into the RV. Many RV are factory wired to do that.

[Camper_bob]

Originally Posted by Cavie

That would go BOOM! but your on the right tract. You plug the shore power into the Rv. Or the Generator into the RV. Many RV are factory wired to do that.

You take the shore power connection that normally would run to the post, and you plug that into the generator. The generator then becomes the source of power instead of the post.

Nothing about that would "go boom".

But I can see how my wording isn't quite right. It kind of sounds like I said to take the cord from the post and plug the RV end into the generator (thereby connecting the post OUT directly to the generator OUT). Yeah, that probably wouldn't be good... But then, in order to do that, you'd have to have a shore power cord with two male ends, which is unlikely.

[Cavie]

Originally Posted by Camper_bob

You take the shore power connection that normally would run to the post, and you plug that into the generator. The generator then becomes the source of power instead of the post.

Nothing about that would "go boom".

But I can see how my wording isn't quite right. It kind of sounds like I said to take the cord from the post and plug the RV end into the generator (thereby connecting the post OUT directly to the generator OUT). Yeah, that probably wouldn't be good... But then, in order to do that, you'd have to have a shore power cord with two male ends, which is unlikely.

the problem with forum conversations

[Mahatnmacoat]

In my career I've seen literly hundreds of ship to shore to ship transfer arrangements. They fall in two categories. One is something like a breaker box with both sources, the shore cord and the genset output lead to breakers the box. There is a simple mechanical blocking arrangement that prevents both source breakers being switched to ON at the same time. These breakers are ALWAYS max load rated. They trip if the maximum load the system is designed for is reached. This system is one off before one on. The other system is a barrel switch (cylindrical) that again has both sources lead to it but the switch has a three position knob on the front, SHORE-GEN-OFF. These switches are quite expensive. When I retired ten years ago a 30 amp barrel switch was over $400.00. I've never before used an automatic transfer switch. If and when mine goes south I'll for sure replace it with one or the other of the systems described above.

[EA37TS]

The way I understand it the Transfer Switch has a built in time delay so that when the generator is started it is allowed to get up to speed before being placed under load.

I'm no expert here and don't pretend to be, but if the transfer switch is removed what prevents a load from being placed on the generator until it is up to speed or will that be dependent on the individual to ensure all loads are turned off first or waiting until the generator is up to speed before flipping the switch?

Just me, but 3 motorhomes over the last 12 - 14 years and I have never had an issue with a transfer switch. Seems like an extremely low percentage of failure.

As a note, I also have a transfer switch on the house for the whole;e house generator. That switch is over 10 years old and has had no issues.

Again, I am no expert here and just asking. Inquiring minds want to know.

[Cavie]

Originally Posted by EA37TS

The way I understand it the Transfer Switch has a built in time delay so that when the generator is started it is allowed to get up to speed before being placed under load.

I'm no expert here and don't pretend to be, but if the transfer switch is removed what prevents a load from being placed on the generator until it is up to speed or will that be dependent on the individual to ensure all loads are turned off first or waiting until the generator is up to speed before flipping the switch?

Just me, but 3 motorhomes over the last 12 - 14 years and I have never had an issue with a transfer switch. Seems like an extremely low percentage of failure.

As a note, I also have a transfer switch on the house for the whole;e house generator. That switch is over 10 years old and has had no issues.

Again, I am no expert here and just asking. Inquiring minds want to know.

the problem is most always loose connections. Not the fault of the failure but damage to the TS is the result. These are the things that happen when you pay piece work wages with no supervision.

[rgolding]

I thank everyone for their input. I'm a "K.I.S.S. (Keep it Simple Stupid) kind of guy. Like modern conveniences, but only when they work. No one ever had problems with the automatic windows on a Model T Ford. We HAD a power winch retrieval reel in the compartment, where the 110 volt shore power came in. During the Warranty period it refused to work, had it replaced. I vowed that if it failed after warranty it would be gone. It did and its gone. Amazing how much space that took up. So now we have a short pigtail for shore power and that is plugged in to the big shore power cord. Picked up the wire and outlet to move the connection to the generator into the power cord compartment on the driver's side of the unit. Most of the work of chasing the wire is inside, so a good project for a hot summer day.

[Cavie]

Originally Posted by rgolding

I thank everyone for their input. I'm a "K.I.S.S. (Keep it Simple Stupid) kind of guy. Like modern conveniences, but only when they work. No one ever had problems with the automatic windows on a Model T Ford. We HAD a power winch retrieval reel in the compartment, where the 110 volt shore power came in. During the Warranty period it refused to work, had it replaced. I vowed that if it failed after warranty it would be gone. It did and its gone. Amazing how much space that took up. So now we have a short pigtail for shore power and that is plugged in to the big shore power cord. Picked up the wire and outlet to move the connection to the generator into the power cord compartment on the driver's side of the unit. Most of the work of chasing the wire is inside, so a good project for a hot summer day.

If I had a TS that went bad it would also be GONE. I can plug and unplug a generator. Been doing it for 50 some years.

[rgolding]

Just to close this subject.

I have completed the removal of the Transfer Switch from the system. I now plug in to a female plug going to the generator, anytime we are on the road or the Shore power is not hooked up. I am using a surge protector in the shore power line, since that was also part of the Transfer Switch.

Through our dealership, MH2GO in Grand Rapids, they have worked a deal with the manufacturer to replace the TS. I'll hook up the male and female plugs to the new unit, so that it can be put in the system, if ever desired.

I really got tired and "gun shy" of wondering what would happen every time I started the generator or plugged in to shore power. Unit isn't devalued by not having the Automatic Transfer Switch, but its also not creating additional heat under the bed and the rear slide out does not have to be opened to see what is going on, if power doesn't come on immediately when we start the generator or throw the breaker at the post after hooking up to shore power.

As I have said before, this is a great site. Lots of knowledge here. Making the title of your subject meaningful, allows for easy searches in the future.

Thanks to all.

[Cavie]

Originally Posted by rgolding

Just to close this subject.

I have completed the removal of the Transfer Switch from the system. I now plug in to a female plug going to the generator, anytime we are on the road or the Shore power is not hooked up. I am using a surge protector in the shore power line, since that was also part of the Transfer Switch.

Through our dealership, MH2GO in Grand Rapids, they have worked a deal with the manufacturer to replace the TS. I'll hook up the male and female plugs to the new unit, so that it can be put in the system, if ever desired.

I really got tired and "gun shy" of wondering what would happen every time I started the generator or plugged in to shore power. Unit isn't devalued by not having the Automatic Transfer Switch, but its also not creating additional heat under the bed and the rear slide out does not have to be opened to see what is going on, if power doesn't come on immediately when we start the generator or throw the breaker at the post after hooking up to shore power.

As I have said before, this is a great site. Lots of knowledge here. Making the title of your subject meaningful, allows for easy searches in the future.

Thanks to all.

Sounds like a workable plan. One that is in fact used or use to be used by the manufactures. Just be sure you have the male plug in the proper place so that it can never be hot with the blades be exposed.

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by rgolding

I am using a surge protector in the shore power line, since that was also part of the Transfer Switch.

Through our dealership, MH2GO in Grand Rapids, they have worked a deal with the manufacturer to replace the TS.
Thanks to all.

Glad it all worked out. Didn't realize you had the TS/Surge Protector.

i wonder if you just had a streak of bad luck and got hit with numerous surges that caused all the failures? Doesn't that one require a new board after a surge?

[imjustdave]

What brand of transfer switch?
Did anyone ever look inside to see if anything was obviously wrong?

Have you checked the output of your generator power by chance?
Volts?
Hz?
Then check under load?
Then check after it has been running awhile?

I can see if the volts or Hz are wrong from the genset that it might not function properly being automatic it has some brains inside. Assuming the contacts aren't vaporized off or some other sign of bad happening inside.

[DaSkipper]

When I had to decide whether to put my hardwired surge protector (so-called EMS) before or after, I put it after the transfer switch. The remote readout from the EMS, which shows frequency, voltage, and amperage, lets me know what's going on regardless of which power source is in use.

[rgolding]

I'mjustdave asked - "What brand of transfer switch?
Did anyone ever look inside to see if anything was obviously wrong?

Have you checked the output of your generator power by chance?
Volts?
Hz?
Then check under load?
Then check after it has been running awhile?

I can see if the volts or Hz are wrong from the genset that it might not function properly being automatic it has some brains inside. Assuming the contacts aren't vaporized off or some other sign of bad happening inside.
imjustdave is offline Report Post "

The transfer switch/surge protector is made by Intel Power and is a Model PDS52DCS.
I have a simple volt reading meter in two different places. The just plug into an outlet, but constantly lets me see what power is coming in. Has never read more than 120 volts, that I have seen and one of the meters is right next to the dinette and very noticeable. Have seen it very low like 107 volts, when sitting on shore power at a friends property.

Under the new system, I have a surge protector in the input line and it is used whether on shore power or generator power.

The generator has almost 1600 hours on it, because we boondock quite often, at rodeos and in locations with poor power source or while driving down the road in hot weather.

The problem is now resolved and simplified, but once again, I thank everyone for all their interest and advice.