e-450 engine rattle - serpentine belt

[Bullitt6283]

Please Note: THE IDLER PULLEY PART NUMBER SHOWN HERE HAS BEEN FOUND TO BE INCORRECT.




I have the pulley and bolt now from the dealer. Cost was $33.42 plus state tax.


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[GABob]

Originally Posted by craigav

I would suggest to go to Continental and in the links down further in the page find the one listed as "partfinder" (http://www.partfinderelite.com) in the applet from that link you can enter in your VIN number and find the correct belt similar to the ford vin tool that mini4mw listed earlier from Ford (see link #15).

Interestingly I just entered my VIN and it came back suggesting the 4060995 belt. That would be 99.5" long, however during my search last night, I cross-referenced the motocraft oem belt (mine is the same as mini4mw listed) Ford/Motorcraft Part #: JK61004B (8620) and that belt is 100.4 and the cross reference to it was the belt I ordered 40601000 (100"). Keep in mind the belt mini4mw listed that he purchased was the 4060998 belt (99.8") so I am of the belief that anywhere between 99.5" and 100.4" would work fine and the slack taken up easily by the tensioner.

I would suggest the vin lookup, and if your belt is listed anywhere near the 100" you should be good with the belt number I listed, or the number from the tool I shared, or with the part number the OP shared in post #15. Also, the other belts possible are way outside of the 100" range, so if you get a number that is around 80" or 120"+ then that is likely the wrong belt.

I would also suggest to use the ford link mini4mw shared where you can enter in the vin# and see if it comes back with the belt number Ford/Motorcraft Part #: JK61004B (8620) which is a 100.4" belt. This is why I am of the belief that you could easily use a belt from 99.5" to 100.5" (assuming the ridges and width match). One other point, the other numbers in the part number refer to the number of ridges and belt width, so all 4060#### belts are the same in that regard with the last 4 numbers referencing the length.

I went with the 100" as that is in the middle and was cross referenced from the oem motocraft belt, although I don't remember where I got that cross reference, and again, I am confident that a fraction of an inch +or- on such a long belt doesn't matter, but do check your vin to be sure. ~CA

I've had that same noise over the last 6 months and it sounded like the ol' valve tap when the octane wasn't high enough. I have a 2019 that was likely built on a 2018 chassis. Used the Continental VIN lookup and it shows 4060998. Ford shows the 8620...go figure.

[Camper_bob]

Had my rig out a couple times over the holidays, and my noise has actually worsened. Now it's rattling consistently at the 2100 RPM band others have mentioned, and intermittently up to 2500 RPM, and I think it's louder too, but can't verify that to be definitely true; it could just be that I'm more "attuned" to it now. And I also spent much more time in the speed range that keeps my RPMs between 2000-2200 than normal. Normally I'll just speed up or slow down to keep the RPMs out of that band, but there were several miles where I didn't really have much choice.

I have a bunch of other stuff to do in the next couple weeks, so I'm planning to order the pulley and bolt along with the other parts I need, and will install both at same time as other repairs/maintenance (oil change, new door lock cylinders, insulate doors, replace door speakers, and probably a bunch more stuff I can't remember right now).

[Bullitt6283]

It's going to be a couple of months before I install the second pulley. It's just too cold here in the semi- frozen North to work.

I saw a post on Facebook which said the new pulley pushes the belt in about 1/4".



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[Camper_bob]

Since I'll be replacing the belt at the same time, I don't know that I'll be able to report results. Since some have reported that the new belt alone solved the problem. If I remember to do so, I'll try to install just the pulley and go for a test drive, then install the belt.

Anyway, it's likely to be in the next couple weeks that I have mine installed depending on how long it takes Ford dealership to get the parts in...

[Bullitt6283]

According to the RockAuto listings, Ford went from a wider 8-rib belt for 2001 and earlier V10s to a 6-rib belt in 2002 and up.

This may help explain why the second idler pulley disappeared in about the same time frame.


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[Camper_bob]

Originally Posted by Bullitt6283

According to the RockAuto listings, Ford went from a wider 8-rib belt for 2001 and earlier V10s to a 6-rib belt in 2002 and up.

This may help explain why the second idler pulley disappeared in about the same time frame.


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So, then I have to wonder if it's possible to go back to an 8-rib belt? Would that fit (inside the pulleys)? If so, I wonder if it would alleviate some/all of the issue?

What about an 8-rib belt AND adding back the pulley?

It makes sense if the pulley was deleted as a cost-cutting measure, Ford would have examined other ways to reduce costs at the same time. If the engineers said "hey, we don't REALLY need that pulley, and oh, by the way, we can also get away with a 6-rib belt too".

Maybe they figured it was "overbuilt" and could be tweaked to meet a lower standard to save a few bucks?

[Bullitt6283]

Going back to an 8 rib belt you'd have to change all the idler and tensioner pulleys, probably the tensioner itself, the alternator and PS pump pulleys, the harmonic balancer, A/C compressor pulley....... Nope.

I confirmed that the idler pulley for the 8 rib belt is wider.

I'm thinking that just adding the second idler pulley solves my immediate problem.

On another forum, an owner added the second pulley and his noise went away. https://www.irv2.com/forums/f23/my-t...ml#post5587416


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[Camper_bob]

Originally Posted by Bullitt6283

Going back to an 8 rib belt you'd have to change all the idler and tensioner pulleys, probably the tensioner itself, the alternator and PS pump pulleys, the harmonic balancer, A/C compressor pulley....... Nope.

I confirmed that the idler pulley for the 8 rib belt is wider.

I'm thinking that just adding the second idler pulley solves my immediate problem.

On another forum, an owner added the second pulley and his noise went away. https://www.irv2.com/forums/f23/my-t...ml#post5587416


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Yup, that's exactly what I was wondering; whether the current pulleys could accommodate the wider belt. Looks like nope.

Good info on the pulley making the noise go away; I'm looking forward to that on my rig.

Something I also noticed last time out was that the noise seemed to also include some squeal. Almost like there was enough vibration in the belt to allow parts of it to "slip" on the pulleys. If that really is happening, it's no bueno for sure.

Looking forward to new belt and pulley to put this little problem behind me...

[mini4mw]

post from irv2, where i linked the two similar issues between message boards;
https://www.irv2.com/forums/showthre...16#post5587416

######
Hello all
2018 class c with 5,000 miles. Thought I had a ignition ping took to Ford they could not find anything. I went to parts department and gave them the last 8 digits of my vin. Number told them I wanted the ldler pulley and bolt that holds it on. That same pulley and bolt fits on the timing cover boss on right side (when looking at engine) I just pushed on belt and the pulley slipped onto the boss. I put some blue locktite on bolt and tightened it. Did not have to remove anything to do this. Noise is gone! If you have a motor noise around 1,800 to 2,100 rpm this worked. I will put on the continental belt at some point.
######


Definitely seems like a good fix is the additional pulley. I have mine, but I'll wait till its a little warmer to put it on.

[Bullitt6283]

I'm looking at the difference between the 8-rib and 6-rib idler pulleys. I'm wondering if the 8-rib pulley I had previously given the part number for is OK to use.


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[craigav]

Originally Posted by Bullitt6283

I'm looking at the difference between the 8-rib and 6-rib idler pulleys. I'm wondering if the 8-rib pulley I had previously given the part number for is OK to use.


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I went ahead and ordered the pulley as well, my thoughts are that because the pulley is for 8 ribs, that there will be no issue as the pulley would be wider than for 6 ribs anyway. Also, keep in mind that the idler pulley rides the outside of the belt, the flat side, so even if the pulley was twice as wide as needed, should be no problem. Granted it hasn't come in yet for me to install it, but that is my opinion at this time. ~CA

[GABob]

Just to share, I ordered the pulley and bolt, and this is the email I just received. I have a 2019 Entegra Odyssey, equivalent to the Greyhawk/Red Hawk with the E450 chassis. As they have checked the part against my VIN, I'm requesting they change as recommended.



This message from Lakeland Ford Online Parts is intended for XXX in regards to order #123456.
Your order has been updated as follows:

We appreciate your purchase with us!
Unfortunately, the part ordered does not correspond to the provided VIN number.
The part ordered: F65Z8678AAA
The VIN correct part: 1L2Z8678AD
The price difference of these parts is: $8.57
An invoice for these charges can be sent upon approval.
The order can be filled as is, however parts that are not VIN matched will not likely fit the vehicle properly and will not be eligible for return.
Please respond to this message, processing of this order cannot continue until response is received.


Your Order Contents:
QuantityProductP/NPrice EA1Bolt. Pulley. Idler. (Upper) N808102S437$6.301Accessory Drive Belt Idler Pulley F65Z8678AAA$18.91

[Bullitt6283]

According to the RockAuto listings, Ford went from a wider 8-rib belt for 2001 and earlier V10s to a 6-rib belt in 2002 and up. When Ford started using the 6-rib belt, it looks like that's about when the driver-side pulley was omitted.

I believe F65Z8678AAA is the wider idler pulley (90mm diameter x 37.5mm wide) used on the older motors with the 8-rib belt which was 28mm wide.

The 1L2Z8678AD pulley is a narrower pulley (90mm diameter x 30mm wide). This makes sense for a 6-rib belt which is 20mm wide.



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[craigav]

Originally Posted by Bullitt6283

According to the RockAuto listings, Ford went from a wider 8-rib belt for 2001 and earlier V10s to a 6-rib belt in 2002 and up. When Ford started using the 6-rib belt, it looks like that's about when the driver-side pulley was omitted.

I believe F65Z8678AAA is the wider idler pulley (90mm diameter x 37.5mm wide) used on the older motors with the 8-rib belt which was 28mm wide.

The 1L2Z8678AD pulley is a narrower pulley (90mm diameter x 30mm wide). This makes sense for a 6-rib belt which is 20mm wide.



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I had noticed the difference as well, however the dimensions are exactly the same in every category except the pulley width. I went ahead and ordered the older and wider pulley as my thoughts are that because it is a smooth pulley, has no ribs, has no shoulder flange, and it rides on the outside (smooth) side of the belt, that either pulley would work as there isn't anything in the way for the wider pulley. My pulley came in (same as in comment #61) and it appears that it will work just fine, however because I am cheap, I ordered the pulley from one seller and the bolt from another and the bolt hasn't come in yet. In any case, I highly suspect that either pulley will work for us and for those who may have already ordered the wider pulley. ~CA

[Bullitt6283]

Originally Posted by Bullitt6283

I'm looking at the difference between the 8-rib and 6-rib idler pulleys. I'm wondering if the 8-rib pulley I had previously given the part number for is OK to use.

Originally Posted by Bullitt6283

According to the RockAuto listings, Ford went from a wider 8-rib belt for 2001 and earlier V10s to a 6-rib belt in 2002 and up. When Ford started using the 6-rib belt, it looks like that's about when the driver-side pulley was omitted.

I believe F65Z8678AAA is the wider idler pulley (90mm diameter x 37.5mm wide) used on the older motors with the 8-rib belt which was 28mm wide.

The 1L2Z8678AD pulley is a narrower pulley (90mm diameter x 30mm wide). This makes sense for a 6-rib belt which is 20mm wide.

I obtained one of the new narrower pulleys and took some rough measurements. The difference in width between the old wider pulley and the new pulley is evenly split, measured from the bearing, towards the motor and away from the motor. I was concerned about this, because you can see with a straightedge that both style pulleys are ever-so-slightly crowned halfway across where the belt runs. The crown helps locate the belt. So I'm thinking either pulley would work.
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[watchout]

I just installed my idler pulley (1L2Z-8678-AD) and went for a short test drive. No more rattle/pinging sound . I only went on a 10 mile test loop, but was able to keep it in the 2000-2300 rpm range most of the time. Previously, that would ALWAYS cause the noise to occur. So, this seems like a very good sign.

It was pretty easy to install, just remove the air filter and you have good access from the top. There is enough give in the belt so you can just push the pulley on to the boss without too much trouble, then bolt it down. I also ordered a new belt, but decided to start with the pulley because that seemed like the primary culprit. Will keep the new one as a spare.

This noise has been driving me crazy since I bought the rig over a year ago, so I'm thrilled to finally have a possible fix. Props to the OP for being creative with the GoPro and giving us a clear picture of what was going on.

[GABob]

Originally Posted by watchout

I just installed my idler pulley (1L2Z-8678-AD) and went for a short test drive. No more rattle/pinging sound . I only went on a 10 mile test loop, but was able to keep it in the 2000-2300 rpm range most of the time. Previously, that would ALWAYS cause the noise to occur. So, this seems like a very good sign.

It was pretty easy to install, just remove the air filter and you have good access from the top. There is enough give in the belt so you can just push the pulley on to the boss without too much trouble, then bolt it down. I also ordered a new belt, but decided to start with the pulley because that seemed like the primary culprit. Will keep the new one as a spare.

This noise has been driving me crazy since I bought the rig over a year ago, so I'm thrilled to finally have a possible fix. Props to the OP for being creative with the GoPro and giving us a clear picture of what was going on.

Great to hear, thanks for sharing. Waiting on my pulley to arrive. I've only got 12K miles on the RV so I'll likely do the same if the belt looks ok. Hopefully the timing of the fix is good.

[GABob]

Originally Posted by watchout

I just installed my idler pulley (1L2Z-8678-AD) and went for a short test drive. No more rattle/pinging sound . I only went on a 10 mile test loop, but was able to keep it in the 2000-2300 rpm range most of the time. Previously, that would ALWAYS cause the noise to occur. So, this seems like a very good sign.

It was pretty easy to install, just remove the air filter and you have good access from the top. There is enough give in the belt so you can just push the pulley on to the boss without too much trouble, then bolt it down. I also ordered a new belt, but decided to start with the pulley because that seemed like the primary culprit. Will keep the new one as a spare.

This noise has been driving me crazy since I bought the rig over a year ago, so I'm thrilled to finally have a possible fix. Props to the OP for being creative with the GoPro and giving us a clear picture of what was going on.

OK, may be a dumb question, but was a torque wrench involved, and if so what was the setting? If need be, I'll ask the neighbor to borrow his

[watchout]

Originally Posted by GABob

OK, may be a dumb question, but was a torque wrench involved, and if so what was the setting? If need be, I'll ask the neighbor to borrow his

I didn't use a torque wrench. Just put a drop of blue loctite on the bolt then snugged down good with a standard socket wrench. I didn't see any torque specs in the parts diagrams, but there probably is a spec somewhere. Since the pulley rotates in the clockwise direction, I the bolt should naturally resist loosening up.