e-450 engine rattle - serpentine belt - Page 8

foglght · 03-11-2021, 01:49 PM

It's pretty simple math. RV industry sold around 500k units. Just assume on the low end of 100k of those are driveable which mostly have ford powertrains.

That pulley probably costs $5 x 100,000 a year. Save a half million a year to not put it on there. Why would they put it back in?

Camper_bob · 03-11-2021, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foglght

It's pretty simple math. RV industry sold around 500k units. Just assume on the low end of 100k of those are driveable which mostly have ford powertrains.

That pulley probably costs $5 x 100,000 a year. Save a half million a year to not put it on there. Why would they put it back in?

Especially since Ford technicians are unwilling or unable to identify the issue that was so elegantly discovered with the video that started all of this. If the techs can't identify it, they can't tell Ford about it, Ford can't/won't do anything about it. Further, it's not currently a functional or performance issue even though it's super annoying. So why then would Ford want to do anything about it anyway. It's operating "as designed".

But I have to wonder if there ARE long-term effects that may become apparent. My "noise" has been getting worse, and not just because I know what it is now. It even sounds like there's some belt slippage happening. Makes me wonder if it's shortening the life of the belt and increasing the potential for a critical failure?

Bullitt6283 · 03-12-2021, 06:26 AM

Personally, I blew through a few tankfuls of hi-test, thinking that the noise I was hearing was spark-knock.. When you're sitting in the driver seat listening to that noise you can imagine many things... leaking EGR valve.... a spark plug almost ready to depart the head...

I searched the web for "ford modular engine belt diagram" and I see the same configurations on 4.6L and 5.4L motors on Mustangs and F-150, and possibly others, over many years.
I wonder what the Ford diagnostic procedure says about this noise. IF it was interpreted as belt noise, I would bet that it says to replace the belt and the tensioner...... which we know now is a temporary fix.
After seeing the video, I's a wonderment to me how there are not sudden belt departures with resulting loss of power steering... and maybe crashes.
.

Camper_bob · 03-12-2021, 08:33 AM

I thought at first it could be the intake manifold. We had an old Suburban that made a similar noise, and my dad always said it was something rattling against the manifold. Then I started thinking it could be an idler pulley or tensioner pulley bearing, but that didn't really fit since it was ONLY present at a very specific RPM band. And it didn't really sound like bearing failure as far as I know. But in my research, that was the closest I could find.

As it got worse, I began hearing a slight belt squeal accompany the rattling noise. And the noise began to present at a wider and wider RPM band. This lead me back to the pulleys, and I started thinking tensioner bearing failure again. That was right before I found this thread and the video.

I'm thinking in my case, it's probably a good idea to replace the belt because of the potential damage done. But for now I'm going to install the pulley, and will get to the belt probably this winter when I do some of the other annual maintenance on the rig. Of course, I'll inspect the belt when I install the new pulley, and if it looks like it needs to be replaced, I'll accelerate that work.

**JFlightRisk** · 03-12-2021, 11:01 AM

snip...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullitt6283

I think it would be good if this thread was made sticky..

This thread's now a "sticky" in the Class C forum.

nelson987 · 03-21-2021, 06:13 AM

got my pulley installed, fixed the issue, 300 miles in.
my mechanic skill level is zero and was able to install with no problem. removing the air box to access was simple. i deflected the belt slightly while running the bolt to prevent damaging the threads.
thank you so much to this community!

Camper_bob · 03-29-2021, 08:42 AM

Finally got my pulley installed last week and had a chance to run the rig about 6 hours over the weekend. Happy to report that the noise is gone. DW even noticed, and she doesn't notice such things.

Hardest part of installation was removing the air box, which really wasn't that difficult. Having an electric ratchet helped. I got the bolt started with fingers, tried using a regular ratchet, broke out the battery-operated one and ran it home in just a few seconds. Torqued it down, and done. Reinstalled air box and cleaned up tools. Whole thing took about 15 minutes or so. And that included fiddling around looking for tools.

drmike961 · 03-29-2021, 09:57 AM

I fixed mine proactively, no symptoms. I can't figure out why I struggled for an hour with such a simple repair. I could not get enough tension off of the belt but did not feel like fooling with a belt tensioner (since I never have). I finally had to have my son pull the belt away from the bottom with a pry bar before I could get that pulley bolt to go in straight. Weird, newer belt have less stretch to it maybe, IDK.

Bullitt6283 · 03-29-2021, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drmike961

I fixed mine proactively, no symptoms. I can't figure out why I struggled for an hour with such a simple repair. I could not get enough tension off of the belt but did not feel like fooling with a belt tensioner (since I never have). I finally had to have my son pull the belt away from the bottom with a pry bar before I could get that pulley bolt to go in straight. Weird, newer belt have less stretch to it maybe, IDK.

I was able to deflect the belt using the pulley in my hand, and with my weak arm, from the top. Is there the possibility that your particular belt was a bit on the small side, and the belt tensioner was running almost at its limit-stop, and fighting you???
The picture below is from a Mustang motor, but the tensioner is similar. You might be able to eyeball whether the stop is close.

.

Ron, Indy · 03-30-2021, 01:27 AM

Went to my local Ford dealer today, for some reason they could not find a part number for the missing idler pulley, so I asked them to just order the one on the passenger side. It should be in in two days. I already have a new belt. So I plan one putting on the new belt and installing the idler pulley and hopefully say goodbye to this very unpleasant noise.

(TO BE CONTINUED)

GABob · 04-04-2021, 12:37 PM

Finally installed mine today. With a stepladder, I was able to snake my hands and a wrench down there to install without taking things apart. There was easily enough deflection in the belt to do this, which is likely the reason why mine sounded like an old valve tap. Couldn’t get a torque wrench in there, but as someone noted it should be fine with the pulley rotation. Thanks to all who brought this up.

Ron, Indy · 04-04-2021, 11:25 PM

This past weekend I replaced the old belt and installed the missing pulley. It only took about 1 1/2 hrs. But it was totally worth it. That rattle was driving me crazy. The pulley was from Ford, and the belt was Gates. I'm actually looking forward to our upcoming trip minus the noise.

Take Heart all E450 V10 owners, it is possible.

GoGator · 04-07-2021, 08:18 PM

Called the nearest Ford dealer to confirm they had 1L2Z-8678-AD (YS385) in stock. Parts guy said they did so I drove the 40 miles there (and another 40 miles home). When I got there the parts guy said the part was replaced with 1L2Z8678AB (YS253). The part number ends with "AB" not "AD" and is YS253 vs YS385. Ford guy swears AB replaces the AD part and will work. Said I can return it if it doesn't fit. Wish he would have told me this beforehand so I could do some research.

Since I drove al this way I bought it. Once I got home I looked at Lakeland Ford online site and it appears part number 1L2Z8678AD actually Supersession(s): 1L2Z-8678-AD and 1L2Z8678AB. I think this means that the "AD" is a newer part number than the "AB". The parts guy was confused?

Before I try it does anyone know if this will work?

Below are some photos of the part:

2019 Jayco Greyhawk Prestige 29MVP

mini4mw · 04-07-2021, 09:44 PM

On the rockauto site both numbers are listed for the same part. Click info next to the part on the below link. Measurements from mine are almost exactly the same as yours as well
https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/mo...er+pulley,6956

So it looks ok, but you never know till you put it on.

Ron, Indy · 04-07-2021, 11:56 PM

Yes that is the same part number I was given. The "parts guy" said they no longer even have a listed part for the missing pulley. So I asked for the part number for the one on the passenger side. I was a bit concerned because the diameter is not the same. I think they might have increased it to increase the tense from the missing pulley. But without much effort you can get the belt on with the larger pulley. Hope this helps put your mind at ease.
Good Luck and Happy Camping

Ron, Indy · 04-08-2021, 12:03 AM

After looking again, it seems we do have different parts numbers, mine is actually YS-250 1X. F65Z-8678-AAA made in Canada

GoGator · 04-08-2021, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron, Indy

After looking again, it seems we do have different parts numbers, mine is actually YS-250 1X. F65Z-8678-AAA made in Canada

Hi Ron, thanks for the replies.

According to Bullitt6283 in a previous post the YS250 is actually a different part. YS250 has a 1-1/2" pulley width vs a pulley width of 1-1/8" for the YS253. If I remember correctly I think the wider pulley was to accommodate a wider belt of 8 ribs on older models vs 6 ribs on newer model years. Also I thought I read in earlier posts the YS-250 worked for some people but not others.

I'm on a 2019 E450 chassis so I think (and hope) YS253 is the correct part. Once the bolt arrives I'll get the YS253 installed and report back.

mini4mw · 04-08-2021, 01:24 PM

Right, so the YS253 or YS385 should be fine and are listed as the same part number on RockAuto. I have the YS385 installed in mine

The YS250 is wider and doesn't fit some, perhaps all v10s.

jellyjamblue · 04-08-2021, 03:36 PM

I too experience the exact noise as represented in this thread. I had the FORD dealer change the belt and it was fine for about 2k miles and now its back. Note - I had the RV at the FORD service for one week and they drove three times and said " nothing wrong with it ". The rattling noise to them is NORMAL. I said , go on a 1000 mile drive and see how you like it.

I emailed the dealer to put on the recommended parts and here is what he says in the email as I asked him to confirm no warranties will be void etc since my unit is a 2020 Jayco Grehawk Prestige on a 2019 Ford E450 Chassis:

The parts are available, if the current belt length works with the added pulley and the belt does not need removal and re- installation to add the tensioner, parts and labor for install $152.10
We do not know for what purpose that tension pulley was deleted from the manufacture , therefore cannot predict possible consequences the effect of adding it back on could cause, if any.
If any damage or undesirable noise related to the addition of the deleted pulley would be void of any warranties.

Camper_bob · 04-08-2021, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jellyjamblue

I too experience the exact noise as represented in this thread. I had the FORD dealer change the belt and it was fine for about 2k miles and now its back. Note - I had the RV at the FORD service for one week and they drove three times and said " nothing wrong with it ". The rattling noise to them is NORMAL. I said , go on a 1000 mile drive and see how you like it.

I emailed the dealer to put on the recommended parts and here is what he says in the email as I asked him to confirm no warranties will be void etc since my unit is a 2020 Jayco Grehawk Prestige on a 2019 Ford E450 Chassis:

The parts are available, if the current belt length works with the added pulley and the belt does not need removal and re- installation to add the tensioner, parts and labor for install $152.10
We do not know for what purpose that tension pulley was deleted from the manufacture , therefore cannot predict possible consequences the effect of adding it back on could cause, if any.
If any damage or undesirable noise related to the addition of the deleted pulley would be void of any warranties.

My recommendation: DO NOT let the Ford dealership install the pulley. For less than $50 in parts, and less than 15 minutes "labor", you can install it yourself.

Don't even enter a VIN when you order the part. Just purchase by part number, install it yourself and move on.

They're kind of right on the warranty coverage; if you add a non-OEM pulley, and it CAUSES a failure of some kind, they would have to prove that installation of that part directly contributed to the failure in order to deny a warranty claim. They cannot completely void the warranty just because you installed a pulley. They are also under no obligation to warrant the pulley itself.

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