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07-14-2018, 11:44 AM
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#1
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Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Wood Lake
Posts: 26
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Electrical shock on 2015 37TS Seneca
Just got home from a 5 day trip and was cleaning up the Seneca before I put it in the shed for awhile. Washed off the grime outside and was wiping down the mirrors and cab windows when I started getting a tingling sensation running up my arm from the mirrors. Happened so quick I didn't realize what was happening until I touched it again. Think I have a short or was I just the ground because of all the moisture around me where I stood? I was plugged into my garage with an extension cord to keep the batteries up. I should have unplugged it before I started but was in a hurry. Dumb on my part. Was careful about where I sprayed the water though. We had just had a big rain two nights ago at the campground while hooked up to 50amp. In and out a few times and no shock with much wetter conditions. What do you guys think?
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07-14-2018, 11:57 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Where ever the boss says we're going.
Posts: 15,894
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Could be a bad extension cord or outlet at the house.
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07-14-2018, 12:09 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Calgary
Posts: 236
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You have an open ground OTHERWISE the chassis would be at ground potential and no tingling...
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07-14-2018, 01:01 PM
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#4
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Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Wood Lake
Posts: 26
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How would I look for an open ground?
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07-14-2018, 01:14 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Calgary
Posts: 236
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Take an AC Voltmeter and take readings between EARTH and 3rd Wire Ground pins where ever you have a connection. Like Grumpy said it is probably either the extension cord, the garage outlet OR the 15A, 30A or 50A adaptors you are using. 15A/30A hockey pucks are the typical culprit because the 30A female ground to too large an ID to mate with the male ground pin..
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07-14-2018, 01:29 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Kingman AZ and where our Seneca is today.
Posts: 3,112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrairieWanderer
How would I look for an open ground?
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Run to the local walmart, home-depot or Lowes and grab one of these... Keep it in your rig always plugged in.
__________________
Steve & Stacy with Jasper (Australian Cattle dog)
2015 Seneca 36FK
Custom 27' flatbed trailer hauling:
07 Toyota FJC & Yamaha Kodiak 400 ATV
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07-14-2018, 06:17 PM
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#7
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Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Wood Lake
Posts: 26
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Thanks for the suggestions. Will try them tomorrow.
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07-18-2018, 09:19 PM
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#8
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Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Wood Lake
Posts: 26
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I'm still having electrical proplems with my Seneca. I originally thought the problem was the ground wire on my extension cord so when I put the Senaca away in my shed I checked the ground and all was good there. Plugging it in and a breaker tripped which panel says is fridge plug and plugs behind cab seats and one by dinette. I then started generator and it also tripped breaker. Fridge was off at time but I went ahead and unplugged it anyway. Today I pulled MH out of shed and tried to figure out where wire runs but looks confusing. Not sure if breaker comes out same as regular house breaker but open to suggestions. I did try to remove plug behind driver seat just to see what I was dealing with, Took plate off and proceded to take out screws, hearing nut or something fall off behind it. Now I need to get vinyl covered plywood off to look for screws. It has 4 button covered screws which I removed but seems to be stuck tight yet. This is directly behind driver seat facing coach interior. Am I missing more screws? Bare wire someplace or bad breaker?
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07-18-2018, 09:39 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Kingman AZ and where our Seneca is today.
Posts: 3,112
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What does the tester show when you plug it INTO the various outlets??? You could have a reversed hot/neutral - the tester should show you if that is the case.
__________________
Steve & Stacy with Jasper (Australian Cattle dog)
2015 Seneca 36FK
Custom 27' flatbed trailer hauling:
07 Toyota FJC & Yamaha Kodiak 400 ATV
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07-19-2018, 12:02 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Manchester Center
Posts: 1,519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrairieWanderer
I'm still having electrical proplems with my Seneca. I originally thought the problem was the ground wire on my extension cord so when I put the Senaca away in my shed I checked the ground and all was good there. Plugging it in and a breaker tripped which panel says is fridge plug and plugs behind cab seats and one by dinette. I then started generator and it also tripped breaker. Fridge was off at time but I went ahead and unplugged it anyway. Today I pulled MH out of shed and tried to figure out where wire runs but looks confusing. Not sure if breaker comes out same as regular house breaker but open to suggestions. I did try to remove plug behind driver seat just to see what I was dealing with, Took plate off and proceded to take out screws, hearing nut or something fall off behind it. Now I need to get vinyl covered plywood off to look for screws. It has 4 button covered screws which I removed but seems to be stuck tight yet. This is directly behind driver seat facing coach interior. Am I missing more screws? Bare wire someplace or bad breaker?
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When you remove the caps there is a screw holding the cap on and then there are longer screws underneath the cap base. So Total of eight screws While you are in there inspect the caulking to make sure it is sealed well.
The circuit breakers snap out like home ones.
__________________
Paul
2018 37TS
Jeep JL
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07-21-2018, 07:39 AM
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#11
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Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Wood Lake
Posts: 26
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Got that panel off behind the drivers seat and there was my problem. The wire feeding the plug-in was almost burnt off where it comes into the coach. It was wedged in between a piece of tin and the fiberglass of the coach. Tin wasn't even cut out for it. Coating was burnt off black wire and ground wire was burnt off. Daylight coming through some places too, so will have to seal that up also. Shoddy work for sure! Got one of those testers and all is good now. Thanks for the responses. Mark
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07-21-2018, 02:16 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Calgary
Posts: 236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrairieWanderer
Got that panel off behind the drivers seat and there was my problem. The wire feeding the plug-in was almost burnt off where it comes into the coach. It was wedged in between a piece of tin and the fiberglass of the coach. Tin wasn't even cut out for it. Coating was burnt off black wire and ground wire was burnt off. Daylight coming through some places too, so will have to seal that up also. Shoddy work for sure! Got one of those testers and all is good now. Thanks for the responses. Mark
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Sounds like the black Hot wire was doing some serious arcing. Was the ground wire burned "open" or was it insulation around the ground wire "burnt off". I am visioning the ground wire to be bare copper with no insulation.
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07-21-2018, 03:53 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Kingman AZ and where our Seneca is today.
Posts: 3,112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrairieWanderer
Got that panel off behind the drivers seat and there was my problem. The wire feeding the plug-in was almost burnt off where it comes into the coach. It was wedged in between a piece of tin and the fiberglass of the coach. Tin wasn't even cut out for it. Coating was burnt off black wire and ground wire was burnt off. Daylight coming through some places too, so will have to seal that up also. Shoddy work for sure! Got one of those testers and all is good now. Thanks for the responses. Mark
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Glad you found it... BTW, I leave one of those testers permanently plugged into the outlet in our power cord reel cabinet. First thing I do is test the outlets on the power pedestal (I use a Wiggy for that). Once the pedestal is tested and clear of any issues, the Seneca gets plugged in after the Genny is shut down. I validate the tester in the outlet first thing before closing the door and walking around the Seneca.
__________________
Steve & Stacy with Jasper (Australian Cattle dog)
2015 Seneca 36FK
Custom 27' flatbed trailer hauling:
07 Toyota FJC & Yamaha Kodiak 400 ATV
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07-21-2018, 05:31 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Manchester Center
Posts: 1,519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrairieWanderer
Got that panel off behind the drivers seat and there was my problem. The wire feeding the plug-in was almost burnt off where it comes into the coach. It was wedged in between a piece of tin and the fiberglass of the coach. Tin wasn't even cut out for it. Coating was burnt off black wire and ground wire was burnt off. Daylight coming through some places too, so will have to seal that up also. Shoddy work for sure! Got one of those testers and all is good now. Thanks for the responses. Mark
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Glad you were able to identify the issue before anyone or any serious damage resulted
I installed rubber grommets around the wires when I had those panels off. I then sealed the gaps with caulk and finally insulated and foamed both sides to try to reduce some of the heat loss and air flow. You literally could blow out a candle with the air flow blowing around the fiberglass caps.
__________________
Paul
2018 37TS
Jeep JL
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07-21-2018, 06:40 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 169
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I sure am glad you were able to get that figured out. Having an RV hot skin (frequently called stray voltage) condition can be deadly. Although I use those handy plug in 120 volt testers too there can be problems in campground wiring that could kill you before you get a chance to use it. Everyone should invest in a cheap (about $20 or less) non-contact voltage tester and use it on the campground pedestal and the RV before touching anything. Take a look at the below video that explains why it may save your life and shows how easy they are to use.
Be safe out there!
__________________
2018 Eagle HT 28.5RSTS
2015 Ram 2500 6.4 Hemi
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07-21-2018, 06:43 PM
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#16
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Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Wood Lake
Posts: 26
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The ground wire was bare and burnt off. The hot wire had charred a small area on the tin and fiberglass pretty black. Kinda wonder why the breaker never tripped till I moved the Seneca into my shed. Then it popped immediately when I plugged in. It had sat plugged for almost a day after arriving home from a State Park where we had been plugged in for 5 days. Anyway it's fixed now. I also put in a rubber grommet, some foam spray and caulked some daylight. Ready to go again next week! Mark
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07-21-2018, 09:05 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Calgary
Posts: 236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrairieWanderer
...... Kinda wonder why the breaker never tripped till I moved the Seneca into my shed. .........
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The circuit, that included the extension cord and the arcing hot wire to ground, must have had a series resistance that was high enough to not blow the breaker.
Then once the extension cord was out of the circuit, the arcing hot wire drew more current then the circuit breaker tripping current.
That is why, in some electrical codes, an arc detecting breaker must be used to service outlets in bedrooms etc...
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07-21-2018, 09:36 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Kingman AZ and where our Seneca is today.
Posts: 3,112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harvard
The circuit, that included the extension cord and the arcing hot wire to ground, must have had a series resistance that was high enough to not blow the breaker.
Then once the extension cord was out of the circuit, the arcing hot wire drew more current then the circuit breaker tripping current.
That is why, in some electrical codes, an arc detecting breaker must be used to service outlets in bedrooms etc...
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That is a good explanation, and justification why thin-gauge extension cords are discouraged so much.
__________________
Steve & Stacy with Jasper (Australian Cattle dog)
2015 Seneca 36FK
Custom 27' flatbed trailer hauling:
07 Toyota FJC & Yamaha Kodiak 400 ATV
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