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Old 12-14-2018, 07:56 AM   #1
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Extra Batteries Room?

Hi, planning ahead for a solar system. Is there room and enough support in any of the storage compartments in a Greyhawk to have a bank of four AGM batteries? I know they would be pretty heavy and would take up some real estate. The other option maybe would convert a cabinet inside to put them. I have a Brother In Law who is a cabinet maker who could handle a cabinet retro. if needed.
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Old 12-14-2018, 11:26 PM   #2
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Someone here reinforced the storage area. Threaded rods *up* and thru the floor, if I recall correctly.

You're going to need a lot of reinforcement to support four.
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Old 12-15-2018, 03:48 PM   #3
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They've changed where they put the batteries. I think they're in the starewell like other campers. I think there's enough room for 2 batterys.
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Old 12-15-2018, 05:08 PM   #4
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Does that include the chassis battery also? Or is it two for house, one for chassis?
Thanks
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Old 12-15-2018, 05:10 PM   #5
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No, just the house batteries.
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Old 12-16-2018, 06:05 AM   #6
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Best option although I hate the price would be a pair of lithiums? Sure hope their price takes a nose dive between now and then.
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Old 12-16-2018, 11:01 AM   #7
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Best option although I hate the price would be a pair of lithiums? Sure hope their price takes a nose dive between now and then.
Be sure and check to see if the converter supports Lithium.

IIRC - Lithium batteries bring a passel of new requirements around charging, temps etc.
If not followed, I think you can trash thousands of dollars worth of batteries.
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Old 12-18-2018, 11:46 PM   #8
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Best option although I hate the price would be a pair of lithiums? Sure hope their price takes a nose dive between now and then.
RetiredLEO... Take the plunge and get the Lithium. You deserve it!!!!
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Old 12-20-2018, 04:54 PM   #9
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Lithium would be best with a different converter/inverter but they would have to be inside for temperature requirements. Then they would have to be pulled each winter so they don't get too cold. AGM's just might be the way to go. Probably four of them. Decisions, decisions, decisions!
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Old 12-22-2018, 06:18 PM   #10
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I added a 6V Trojan to a cargo bin that is adjacent to the original battery pull-out space. The original battery was replaced with another 6v Trojan battery. My neighbor (who is a general contractor and knows how to do everything!) helped me to use threaded bolts to strengthen the cargo bin. I used 3/4” inch plywood for the floor of the bin. The bolts go thru the floor above and below to a steel angle iron. I think I could add two more batteries if I wanted to. You only need to put three of the batteries in this compartment, the fourth battery would replace the original battery in the pull-out. If you plan on using an inverter, you need to beef up the wires connecting it to the batteries. The 6 ga. That came with my installed inverter could not run even a small 800 watt coffee maker. Also the inverter was installed under the bed where the wires had to travel too far to reach the battery. The newer Greyhawks may be set up better for using solar and the inverter. I would hope so. We had to run the wires from the solar panels down the refrigerator vent, then under the MH and then up under the bathroom sink where there is a “dead” space. My controller came with a remote that was mounted just below the thermostat. Different Greyhawk models may have problems mounting the solar panels, inverter, and batteries because of the way they are configured. For example, if the refrigerator is located in a slide, running the wires down the vent may not be possible. If the MH doesn’t come set up with provisions for solar, extra batteries or an inverter that is ideally located, you need to carefully check it out for possible solutions. Fortunately, my neighbor and friend is very handy and clever and so he helped me to make these changes. I posted photos previously so you could search for them to see how the threaded bolts support the cargo bin floor to hold the extra battery.
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Old 12-23-2018, 05:46 AM   #11
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I added a 6V Trojan to a cargo bin that is adjacent to the original battery pull-out space. The original battery was replaced with another 6v Trojan battery. My neighbor (who is a general contractor and knows how to do everything!) helped me to use threaded bolts to strengthen the cargo bin. I used 3/4” inch plywood for the floor of the bin. The bolts go thru the floor above and below to a steel angle iron. I think I could add two more batteries if I wanted to. You only need to put three of the batteries in this compartment, the fourth battery would replace the original battery in the pull-out. If you plan on using an inverter, you need to beef up the wires connecting it to the batteries. The 6 ga. That came with my installed inverter could not run even a small 800 watt coffee maker. Also the inverter was installed under the bed where the wires had to travel too far to reach the battery. The newer Greyhawks may be set up better for using solar and the inverter. I would hope so. We had to run the wires from the solar panels down the refrigerator vent, then under the MH and then up under the bathroom sink where there is a “dead” space. My controller came with a remote that was mounted just below the thermostat. Different Greyhawk models may have problems mounting the solar panels, inverter, and batteries because of the way they are configured. For example, if the refrigerator is located in a slide, running the wires down the vent may not be possible. If the MH doesn’t come set up with provisions for solar, extra batteries or an inverter that is ideally located, you need to carefully check it out for possible solutions. Fortunately, my neighbor and friend is very handy and clever and so he helped me to make these changes. I posted photos previously so you could search for them to see how the threaded bolts support the cargo bin floor to hold the extra battery.
Excellent!!! Thank you. Now I need to try to find those pictures Could you re-post them again here?
Very appreciated!
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Old 12-24-2018, 07:05 PM   #12
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Photos showing threaded rods

Retired LEO,
Here is the first photo. The hatch to access the slide motor was used to get access to the top of the threaded rod with a washer and bolt. The second photo shows the bottom of the compartment with two threaded going thru plywood. Below the compartment is an angle iron that the rods are bolted to.
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5B44AE9A-A82E-4592-987C-8CE173A27068.jpg   8C817005-4F20-4711-90E5-9476E6501ED7.jpg  
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Old 12-25-2018, 05:03 AM   #13
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Excellent! Thank you!
And Merry Christmas!!
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Old 12-28-2018, 05:39 AM   #14
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You may want to check out the battle born lithium batteries they have a built in BMS (battery management system) with temperature control and don’t need to be stored in warm temperatures.

I live in the Buffalo area and just use my battery disconnect.

Keep in mind if you want to charge them they simply won’t accept a charge if the temperature is below 25F, if that is your use case some keep them inside the coach (these are safe for inside use) so they can run the normal furnace (they can be discharged at below 25).

Personally I don’t use mine when the temps stay below that temp for 24 hours, but in a pinch I would use a hair dryer in the battery box to bring the temp up - once the charge cycle begins the process will keep them warm.

Overall the cost will be much cheaper as they are rated for 3000 complete discharge cycles before getting to 80% of the original capacity and have a ten year warranty.

They will also charge fine on most current built in converters, the newer models like what came with my 2018 eagle delivered in May even had built in support for lithium by moving a jumper on the circuit board, this allows the batteries (2 in my case) to be recharged from 0 in about 3 hours.

A down side is the RV’s built in battery monitor will always show full since the voltage doesn’t drop like lead acid batteries. I installed a victron bmv-712 with temperature monitoring so I could track them - also a excellent product. I have cuurently had mine disconnected since November 1st and by pulling up near the camper can check them from my phone - mine are still 100% as of Wednesday so nearly 2 months sitting in the cold.
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Old 12-28-2018, 01:18 PM   #15
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You may want to check out the battle born lithium batteries they have a built in BMS (battery management system) with temperature control and don’t need to be stored in warm temperatures.

I live in the Buffalo area and just use my battery disconnect.

Keep in mind if you want to charge them they simply won’t accept a charge if the temperature is below 25F, if that is your use case some keep them inside the coach (these are safe for inside use) so they can run the normal furnace (they can be discharged at below 25).

Personally I don’t use mine when the temps stay below that temp for 24 hours, but in a pinch I would use a hair dryer in the battery box to bring the temp up - once the charge cycle begins the process will keep them warm.

Overall the cost will be much cheaper as they are rated for 3000 complete discharge cycles before getting to 80% of the original capacity and have a ten year warranty.

They will also charge fine on most current built in converters, the newer models like what came with my 2018 eagle delivered in May even had built in support for lithium by moving a jumper on the circuit board, this allows the batteries (2 in my case) to be recharged from 0 in about 3 hours.

A down side is the RV’s built in battery monitor will always show full since the voltage doesn’t drop like lead acid batteries. I installed a victron bmv-712 with temperature monitoring so I could track them - also a excellent product. I have cuurently had mine disconnected since November 1st and by pulling up near the camper can check them from my phone - mine are still 100% as of Wednesday so nearly 2 months sitting in the cold.
Gizmopilot,
Thank you!!!!!
Thanks for sharing what you have done and are doing.
I have been tied between 4 AGM's or 2 Lithiums. The initial cost would be more with the Lithiums but in the long run would be less with the longer life and more charge cycles. Then add being able to take it safely down to 20% charge w/out hurting them compared to 50% for AGM's.

My initial plans for solar is three 160 panels on the roof going to possibly a Victron MultiPlus Compact 12/2000 Inverter/Charger. I would rob some valuable inside space by placing the Lithiums in the double cabinet under the sink. Four AGM's in that area would eat up a lot of territory there where a pair of Lithiums would fit better. I think this location would keep it to a short run of wire to the control panel. I know it's not a huge issue with temps. but being inside like that would be in a much more temp controlled area. I have a Brother In Law who is a gifted cabinet maker and I know he could either retrofit the existing cabinet or make cabinets and drawers so they fit good. I would remove the Lithiums anyway at the end of the traveling year so someone doesn't break in and help themselves to them.

We will be traveling with a pair of Golden retrievers so their comfort when we're away from the Coach is huge concern. I have no expectation of running the A.C. from the solar or battery bank. I want to put a gen. auto start on the control panel in case shore power (when we use it) is lost to assure A.C. for them. Would it be possible for a gen. auto start to fire up to charge the Lithiums when they would drop to a lower level? I know they're rated to be safe down to 20% charge but I would only want to drop them to 30% just to be safe.

My end result desire is to have a Coach that other than the A.C. can be completely ran off the solar and batteries. I do want to have a residential style refrigerator which will be power hungry. I like the idea of a larger capacity in a smaller box and not have the inherent fire risk, leveling demand of a typical elect/L.P. fridge. I expect there will be times when I will need to run the gen. to recharge the Lithiums but at least it would be less running time needed than the AGM's.
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Old 12-28-2018, 06:14 PM   #16
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You may want to check out the Battle Born FAQ’s they are much different than lead acid - They are built with more than 100ah of capacity it is controlled by the built in BMS to not allow you to draw to much to fast or more than 100ah total but you are perfectly safe to draw them down to 0% since that isn’t actually 0 to the batteries internally the BMS is protecting the batteries.

A bigger impact would be to charge them with more than 50ah or 100ah for 2 in parrallel that will reduce cycle life to 2000 vs the 3000. So be careful about recharging using shore power and solar simultaneously and exceeding that limit.

I had ordered my Jayco eagle with the residential refrigerator (2018 322 RLOK delivered may 2 2018) and it came with a 1200/2400 inverter and the built in converter already supports fast charging lithium batteries - Just move a jumper inside of it to activate this feature.

My refrigerator an average needs 75 watts of power so over the course of a day it needs 1800 watts, 2 lithium batteries can provide about 2400 watts.

3 160 watt panels would provide about 480 watts or about 1440 over 3 hours (typical northern sun exposure) so you wouldn’t be able to recover enough charge in the day and would probably need to use the generator if boon docking every couple of days - assuming no losses in all of the above and there is about 5-20% loss.

You will need a MPPT charge controller - I already got the Victron 100/50 also an excellent device. I plan on actually installing double the panels you are so I can recover enough power during a typical day. Keep in mind there will be rainy days, the panels won’t be perpendicular to the sun all of the time and you most likely won’t get the rated output most of the time.

The converter/inverter you selected is also a great product and yes you can setup your system to auto start a generator if the batteries get to low - If I recall it is an option both on both the converter/inverter and the solar charge controller.

Good luck on your decisions!
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Old 12-28-2018, 09:02 PM   #17
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.... Would it be possible for a gen. auto start to fire up to charge the Lithiums when they would drop to a lower level? I know they're rated to be safe down to 20% charge but I would only want to drop them to 30% just to be safe. ...
I just looked at the manual for our Onan Energy Command 30 console and you can set the START @V between 10.5 and 12.5 V, and the STOP @V from 13.2 to 14.5V. Hopefully you have similar options.

"I want to put a gen. auto start on the control panel in case shore power (when we use it) is lost to assure A.C. for them."

I'm not aware of a readily available method to start the generator when shore power is lost. But some electronics and access to the DC voltage sense line and a way to sense shore power (pre- transfer switch) could solve that.
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Old 12-29-2018, 06:14 AM   #18
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Here's a good vid on the auto start:

https://www.lichtsinn.com/about-us/v...auto-gen-setup
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Old 12-29-2018, 07:37 AM   #19
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Here's a good vid on the auto start:

https://www.lichtsinn.com/about-us/v...auto-gen-setup
That was enlightening. I looked closer at the manual and confirmed that the EC30 has shore power sensing, turns on the generator in response to HVAC requests, and even has a battery pre-fill function that tops off the batteries before quiet time. Thanks!
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Old 12-29-2018, 10:58 AM   #20
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explain to me what is going on and ill try to help you
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