Ford 450 modification for road sway

[Funengineer]

Originally Posted by craigav

I am not sure I would agree with the Boss. A bushing (such as the Moog caster/camber bushings), has to have an outer an inner diameter that actually fits. A company can't simply make their bushings at whatever thickness they want and still expect it to fit. When you deal with a caster/camber bushing, a 0 degree bushing would have a thickness the same all around but as the bushing is intended for more caster (or camber) then that side of the bushing is reduced by the same amount the other side is increased which is true regardless of the bushing's mfg.

One other thought, is that most of the specs I have seen for the E-series alignments offer a wide range for the caster, however most reports are that while in spec at less caster, the benefit of the increased caster is only seen at +5 degrees or a little more, which is also still in spec but requires a different than stock bushing, such as likely what you purchased and provided the alignment shop. I would make sure that they increase the caster to +5~+6 and not leave it at the stock caster of 2~3 degrees. ~CA

Can the +5-5.5 caster cause any mechanical issues like ball joints or tire wear?

[craigav]

Originally Posted by Funengineer

Can the +5-5.5 caster cause any mechanical issues like ball joints or tire wear?

Think of more caster as similar to a standard motorcycle that is modified for the front tire to be moved forward (chopper style). The tire still tracks the same (assuming no other alignment changes which could occur when changing the bushings). The advantage is that the weight of the rig keeps the tires tracking forward and doesn't result in issues, although there is a little more effort to steer away from center. In any case, you should verify, but when I checked for mine the caster specs from Ford have a wide range upwards to ~+7 degrees so going from ~2 to ~5 degrees isn't a lot in regards to the structure, but a lot in regards to how the steering performs.

BTW, I need to install my trackbar as I have had it for a while now just sitting in the shop and waiting for me to install it. I firmly believe what JohnyNorthland stated that it will make a big difference based on his experience and my research. ~CA

[JudyB]

We now have 53,000 miles on our 2017 Redhawk XD and have gone through a complete set of tires after first set of Michelins wore down in irregular chunks. Now 2 years later the front outer 3 treads have worn unevenly, the front wheel bearings have been replaced, shocks and struts worn and replaced. We use a TPMS and are fastidious about pressures. I seriously wonder if the “steering “ improvements have had any cause and effect. Have any of you drivers experienced this wear and tear at this low mileage??? We are not off-roaders.

[craigav]

Originally Posted by JudyB

We now have 53,000 miles on our 2017 Redhawk XD and have gone through a complete set of tires after first set of Michelins wore down in irregular chunks. Now 2 years later the front outer 3 treads have worn unevenly, the front wheel bearings have been replaced, shocks and struts worn and replaced. We use a TPMS and are fastidious about pressures. I seriously wonder if the “steering “ improvements have had any cause and effect. Have any of you drivers experienced this wear and tear at this low mileage??? We are not off-roaders.

You should have your alignment checked and adjusted if needed. That would be the most likely reason for what you describe, although bad shocks can cause uneven tire wear as well, but that wouldn't be likely unless the new shocks were recently replaced (after the uneven tire wear pattern began). ~CA

[Ttlanders]

Alignment and rotate tires every 5,000 miles!!

[foglght]

Originally Posted by JudyB

We now have 53,000 miles on our 2017 Redhawk XD and have gone through a complete set of tires after first set of Michelins wore down in irregular chunks. Now 2 years later the front outer 3 treads have worn unevenly, the front wheel bearings have been replaced, shocks and struts worn and replaced. We use a TPMS and are fastidious about pressures. I seriously wonder if the “steering “ improvements have had any cause and effect. Have any of you drivers experienced this wear and tear at this low mileage??? We are not off-roaders.

If you have outer tread wear (not inner) you either have too much positive camber, or too much toe in.

the E450 goes to positive camber when you load up the rear as the arms angle down by taking weight off the front end. As you turn and roll the tires roll over on the outside edge making it wear faster as well as just rolling down the road more on the outside edge of the tire.

If you have more than 0.2 degrees of toe in per side it can cause excessive wear on the outside edge as the tires are pointed at each other as you are driving down the road.

[mini4mw]

Finally got around to adjusting the Hellwig leafs in the back. Mine where set to 3.5-4" and I brought the front and back U bolts on the rear leafs to 2".

I chocked the front tires, used hydraulic levelers and brought the rear up as far as it would go. Used a 3' breaker bar and most of the nuts loosed without too much trouble, but I did soak them up in auto trans fluid and acetone for a few hours. The passenger rear is a real pain due to the muffler being in the way. Just not much room there.

The U bolt on the muffler side got real close, but after I let her down there was a ton of room. Just mentioning as I read somewhere that another user had cut part of the U bolt to keep it from hitting the muffler. More than 2" and you might need to. Make sure you put that lock nut on the U bolt before it gets to close to the muffler, otherwise you'll have to loosen it to make room to get it on.

I added a Roadmaster sway bar and Sumos in the front and that has made a huge difference with body roll. I still wander in a lane at highway speeds (60-70) needing constant correction. I read somewhere you can lower the PSI in front tires and if you don't wander as much it means you need a higher caster adjustment. Changed from 75 to 65 PSI in front only on the last 600 mile trip and it definitely didn't wander as much so I'll be hitting the alignment shop this week to change to 5 on the caster.

Starting on a ~5k mile round trip end of the week and we'll see how all the adjustments go.

[mini4mw]

Went to a truck alignment today and had the caster changed. 'Actual' is before the alignment. Left side was 3, changed to 5. Right side was 4.1, changed to 5.2.

Driving back from the shop the steering felt tighter, but I never got above 55. I have a long trip coming up in a few days and we'll see how much it helps.

[Rebel112r]

Alignment done today on my 2022 30Z Greyhawk with 5000 miles on it. Was surprised that castor was good, but that camber and toe were out of specs. Seems to be easier to drive, but will no more after some more miles.

[Suprnova74]

Originally Posted by Suprnova74

2022 Greyhawk 29MV and I had the lovely "sawing" issue where the steering wheel was super loose at highway speeds. I took it to a spring/alignment shop and mentioned the 5+ caster etc. They've done a lot of RV's and the tech stated its alignment was setup like a van and not an RV. It was also at 7/32 toe for each wheel. He said in 1 to 2k miles it would have ruined the tires at that much toe! The Caster was actually backed off a bit as it was 5 and 5 3/4 and is now 4 1/2 and 5. When I spoke to him about it, he stated that due to the way the front coils are setup on this year and model, cranking it up too high would cause sloppy steering.

We'll see. I took it for a several mile drive afterwards reaching 65 mph and it was much better so hopefully he knew what he was talking about. My next drive is to Texas from PA so it'll be a LOT of driving to determine if he was on the ball.

Well, i'm 1200 miles into the 1700 mile drive and the handling is better. Still looser than I'd like but manageable.

[mini4mw]

Just wanted to throw together a quick synopsis of my findings as I upgraded multiple parts and each had its own effect.

1) sway bar and blue sumo springs; definite need. rolling over uneven ground significantly reduced side to side sway. almost stopped it. taking turns - I don't feel like i'm going to topple over.

2) bringing rear hellwigs to 2" from 3-4". good result, but not nearly like #1. Helped with sway a little. I still get pushed around by tractor trailers, but it feels overall more stable side to side and down the road.

3) adjusting camber to 5 degrees. definite need. curious if what it would feel like if I went more than 5. I used to sway all over the road, wind or not. constant correction was the name of the game. Now east of oklahoma city where the wind is light i can stay pretty straight and its a decent drive. west of oklahoma where the wind starts picking up more than 10mph it takes two hands but i'm still pretty steady. I am driving a 32' long by 10' high sail, so not sure what to expect here.

I did not install a safe t bar on the steering or steering helper. The hardest time driving for me is in the constant wind out west and I didn't want to be fighting a spring, let alone the wind. often I have a 1/4 turn into the wind just to keep it straight.

I'm happy with all the changes after the last 5k mile trip. It took me a bit to take the forum advice on all these changes, but it was well worth it.

[doghauler]

I also did the Safe-T-Plus front end stabilizer and front end alignment on my 2022 29MV. That helped immensely. I still get a little push from tractor trailers passing me on the interstates but when you see it coming it is no issue.

[Randy]

Your upgrades are some of the best bang for the buck improvements- I am not a fan of the spring assit dampners either. However, you may want to concider replacing the whimpy OEM Ford dampner with something more robust (Bilstein). Track bars are pricey, but another improvment item. Happy trails!

[Dmarcian]

What color are the Sumos you put on the front? Thanks

[don_kleinschnitz]

They are the black ones.
SuperSprings International, Inc. SSF-106-47 | SumoSprings Front for Ford E-150|E-250, Ford E-350|E-450,

[mini4mw]

When i bought them they were blue. If you click the link in my post above (which goes to the one I bought),it now goes to a black set though.

[travelingjw]

We are planning to purchase a Redhawk 26m. This will be our first Class C so I want to focus on the sway issue. After reading through this thread and measuring a Redhawk in the CG, it appears to me that raising the chassis 6" and installing stabilizer bars on the front and rear are the minimum that we need. On the first leg of many of our trips we travel 6 - 7 hours just to get to the first CG so I don't want to be exhausted upon arrival. Can someone give me an estimate of the cost to address these issues. Are we talking $5,000, $10,000. All the work will have to be done by professionals. (I am posting here because I think this is consistent with the subject; no objection if Moderators want to move it).

[Johnynorthland]

Originally Posted by travelingjw

We are planning to purchase a Redhawk 26m. This will be our first Class C so I want to focus on the sway issue. After reading through this thread and measuring a Redhawk in the CG, it appears to me that raising the chassis 6" and installing stabilizer bars on the front and rear are the minimum that we need. On the first leg of many of our trips we travel 6 - 7 hours just to get to the first CG so I don't want to be exhausted upon arrival. Can someone give me an estimate of the cost to address these issues. Are we talking $5,000, $10,000. All the work will have to be done by professionals. (I am posting here because I think this is consistent with the subject; no objection if Moderators want to move it).

Are you raising the chassis 6” for more clearance? You might want to reconsider. I think that might cause more handling issues. Maybe someone else can tell you more on this site.


I spent apx $4.5k on my suspension upgrades consisting of;
Front Road master steering damper, front Monroe RV gas shocks, front Hellwig sway bar, rear Firestone ride right air bags, a rear Super steer track bar and alignment.

[ait109]

Last week I drove my 25R back home to Phoenix from Weldtec in San Diego. Got the 6" lift and the Fox steering damper. It is night and day with respect to stability. Too easy to drive fast (75mph). No movement when being passed by semis and other large vehicles (I had to concentrate on driving slower in order to test this.) They completely eliminated the 65mph driveshaft drone.

For those familiar with the stretch of HWY, I took I-8 to Gila Bend, then SR 238 to Maricopa (reverse of same route I took going to SD). SR 238 is two lane road with dips and 45 MPH curves. Whereas on the way there I would slow down to 45 and carefully use two hands to finesse the curve, on the way back I comfortably took the curves at 55 MPH with no fuss.

No noted change in fuel economy as of now.

Costs are as listed on their website. Dropped it off on a Friday, picked it up the following Friday.

Looking forward to taking it to Flagstaff this weekend and driving on some forest roads.

Based on the limited driving so far, I am super satisfied with the results.

[mini4mw]

Just throwing this out there as a possible issue. I adjusted my helwigs last winter and now the driver side leaf spring bolt behind the wheels was digging into my black tank. Someone reported this issue a few years ago, but it wasn't an issue for me until I adjusted my helwigs. So, if you have adjusted the helwigs, check this link and look at that area for any rubbing that could cause a hole.

https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f...ole-98359.html