Helwig spring helpers

[Bduck100]

I believe they were placed on with Lock tight thus the difficulty breaking the locking nuts. I had a hard time but eventually was able to get them loose. Used 7/8 deep well socket for most of the work and finished with a open end wrench. Have not been on the road yet. Really not expecting a big change just wanted to increase the load level. Also the helper had broken my drain line from the bathroom sink.

[jd99336]

Just a slight correction to my first post in this thread....I said that "I was not happy with the ride". What I meant to say was "I was not UNHAPPY". I have had many motorhomes and the JRide is one of the easiest to drive. If tightening down the Hellwigs improves it even slightly, I will be happy.

I can't imagine why anyone would locktite the nuts. Just breaking the locking nut loose took a breaker bar and big wrench on mine. Fortunately, I could still get a socket on it.

I may tighten them down even more after reading this thread as I did see the reference in my instructions to 1/4", but I don't think I would go anywhere near that. Maybe 2".....maybe 1".....we will see.

[drmike961]

I would like to make this adjustment as well. I read somewhere that someone broke a U bolt doing this. I'm guessing it was from trying to break the locking nut loose. Anyone have a problem with this and if so where do you find a replacement??

[JimD]

How about hitting the lock nut with a propane torch before trying to break it free?

I just looked on the net for the install instructions for the helper springs. Hellwig has a nice U-Tube video on how to install plus there is an installation manual online. NEITHER states the distance measurement to set the spring to. They say to just set it to your desired load assist. That is some spec!

[gprapim]

Originally Posted by drmike961

I would like to make this adjustment as well. I read somewhere that someone broke a U bolt doing this. I'm guessing it was from trying to break the locking nut loose. Anyone have a problem with this and if so where do you find a replacement??

If it were me, I’d order it from Hellwig.

[Camper_bob]

Originally Posted by drmike961

I would like to make this adjustment as well. I read somewhere that someone broke a U bolt doing this. I'm guessing it was from trying to break the locking nut loose. Anyone have a problem with this and if so where do you find a replacement??

This was probably me. I think whoever installed the helpers at the factory tightened the jam nut too tight and stretched the threads. Or it's possible I could have done it. Either way, the threads were fouled enough so the adjustment nut wouldn't move on or off. So I had a friend of mine fabricate some replacement U-bolts and cut the old one off.

Originally Posted by JimD

How about hitting the lock nut with a propane torch before trying to break it free?

I just looked on the net for the install instructions for the helper springs. Hellwig has a nice U-Tube video on how to install plus there is an installation manual online. NEITHER states the distance measurement to set the spring to. They say to just set it to your desired load assist. That is some spec!

I also hit it with a torch, and it didn't help. I tried penetrating oil, torch, impact socket, breaker bar, etc. Wouldn't budge. And while I'm no "lift things up and put them down" kind of guy, I'm not a weakling either; I put some FORCE on that thing using every mechanical advantage I had.

I even took it to my buddy's diesel shop, parked it over the pit and had one of his guys try at it. He works on commercial diesel machinery, so he has LOTS of BIG tools. He stopped because I didn't have a replacement on hand, and he didn't want to break it ahead of a trip I had coming up.

Full disclosure, most guys didn't/don't have this problem. But I have ALL the good luck!!

[JimD]

I wonder if some moron put red Loctite on that nut before tightening it as much as humanly possible. If no normal unfastening effort works, you can always use a cutoff wheel to put a slice down it. Maybe a Dremel tool with a small cutoff wheel could slice up and down it. At some point the nut would probably jump off on its own. I have had luck with smaller nuts.

Why is nothing ever easy?

[Camper_bob]

Originally Posted by JimD

I wonder if some moron put red Loctite on that nut before tightening it as much as humanly possible. If no normal unfastening effort works, you can always use a cutoff wheel to put a slice down it. Maybe a Dremel tool with a small cutoff wheel could slice up and down it. At some point the nut would probably jump off on its own. I have had luck with smaller nuts.

Why is nothing ever easy?

I considered that too. But even if I could get the nut off without damaging the threads even more, my threads were still the problem. So no way I could get a NEW nut up on the threads past where the old one was.

If it's just loctite, I would imagine the torch would take care of that?

Really there's no reason to use loctite in the first place. That's why there's 2 nuts there, one being a jam nut. But then some people get strange ideas about how to put things together. Like when the tire shop uses a pneumatic impact gun to install lug nuts.

"Why is nothing ever easy" I ask myself this very question FAR too much!!

[RetiredOne]

Originally Posted by drmike961

I would like to make this adjustment as well. I read somewhere that someone broke a U bolt doing this. I'm guessing it was from trying to break the locking nut loose. Anyone have a problem with this and if so where do you find a replacement??

I had to completely unload and back off on the nuts on my rig to get to the support hangar bolt when I did the rear sway bar. The lock nuts loosened no problem.

[Camper_bob]

Originally Posted by RetiredOne

I had to completely unload and back off on the nuts on my rig to get to the support hangar bolt when I did the rear sway bar. The lock nuts loosened no problem.

Ya, unloading the suspension probably would make things a bit easier. Wish I'd thought of that!

[gprapim]

Originally Posted by Camper_bob

Ya, unloading the suspension probably would make things a bit easier. Wish I'd thought of that!

I totally unloaded the suspension to the point where the rear wheels were just off of the ground, when I did mine, and breaking the locknuts loose were the main hassle.

[RetiredOne]

Originally Posted by Camper_bob

Ya, unloading the suspension probably would make things a bit easier. Wish I'd thought of that!

If you didn't do that, how did you get the top bolt of the hangar out of the frame? It was easy to loosen up, but it hit the helper spring when threaded about half way out. The only way I could get it to completely unthread was to get the helper spring out of the way, by completely unthreading the nuts.

[Camper_bob]

Originally Posted by RetiredOne

If you didn't do that, how did you get the top bolt of the hangar out of the frame? It was easy to loosen up, but it hit the helper spring when threaded about half way out. The only way I could get it to completely unthread was to get the helper spring out of the way, by completely unthreading the nuts.

I think we're talking about two different things?

I'm talking only about the helper springs. My Greyhawk came equipped with the Hellwig rear sway bar, so I haven't touched that.

As for adjusting the helpers, you shouldn't have to remove anything unless something breaks (something broke in my case). You just have 16 nuts on 4 u-bolts to deal with. Two nuts on each side of each U-bolt, one of them being a "jam nut" to keep them from coming loose over time.

Loosen the jam nuts (if you can), run the other two nuts up (bringing the spring down, a few turns on one side, then a few on the other to keep things even) to your desired setting, then run the jam nuts back up against the other nut. And unless you're me, you're done!

Now, IF you have to completely remove a U-bolt, it can be tricky threading on the nuts when you go back to re-install. That spring has A LOT of travel. I used a breaker bar wedged up under something and levered the helper spring down so I could get the nuts threaded on to the U-bolt. Then it was just an eternity of rotations getting the nuts adjusted into place. I was glad I had a box-end ratchet wrench for that part!!

[RetiredOne]

Originally Posted by Camper_bob

I think we're talking about two different things?

I'm talking only about the helper springs. My Greyhawk came equipped with the Hellwig rear sway bar, so I haven't touched that.

oops... yep, we are. You got lucky, and didn't have to deal with the rear sway bar, as yours already came with the upgraded one.

To get to the top bolt that holds the downrod for the arm of the sway bar, I had to completely loosen the helper spring nuts in the front, to allow the spring to rise up and get clearance. This was a MAJOR P.I.A. on both sides.

[RetiredOne]

Originally Posted by Camper_bob

The printed instructions for the part from Hellwig state they can be adjusted down to 1/4" IIRC; mine are at 1"

I was looking at mine, in the rear, the gap is about 2", in the front, the gap is about 3-1/2" to 4". They are definitely not spaced the same, front and rear.

So, I'm assuming I should adjust the so the gap is the same? I'm not sure on what I should be feeling when going down the road. Will cranking down more on the U bolts help with the "rolling" effect of the box, or just the way it rides over dips, bouncing and rough road?

[Camper_bob]

Originally Posted by RetiredOne

I was looking at mine, in the rear, the gap is about 2", in the front, the gap is about 3-1/2" to 4". They are definitely not spaced the same, front and rear.

So, I'm assuming I should adjust the so the gap is the same? I'm not sure on what I should be feeling when going down the road. Will cranking down more on the U bolts help with the "rolling" effect of the box, or just the way it rides over dips, bouncing and rough road?

If I remember correctly, they're supposed to be the same front and rear?

Yes, it will help with the body roll. It may also raise up the rear of the coach slightly. Some people claim it rides "rougher", but I didn't find that to be true.

Basically those helpers are intended to better manage the extremely heavy load. Most coaches come with the springs adjusted to 4". At that adjustment, they're basically doing nothing more than adding weight to the rig at best. At worst, they can move around as the suspension cycles, and they can/do rub on surrounding components and cause damage.

[drmike961]

Stupid question but when tightening down the outer U bolts will that cause any change to the inner spring U bolts, therefore requiring any adjustments or tightening to those bolts?

[jd99336]

Originally Posted by drmike961

Stupid question but when tightening down the outer U bolts will that cause any change to the inner spring U bolts, therefore requiring any adjustments or tightening to those bolts?

First, there is no inner and outer Ubolt. There is front, rear and the two in the center that hold the helper spring to the original spring pack.

2nd, assuming you are talking about the outer "leg's" of the front or rear Ubolt, you should make every effort to keep the length identical with the inner. If you don't the effect will be the Ubolt having more tension on the outside of the helper spring. I don't know what the outcome would be.....it could range from nothing to a total failure of the bolt....but Ubolts by design are meant to provide a flat horizontal downward pressure across the "bottom of the U". If not, equal, then the force will want to bend the bolt in a diaganol direction.

You would be better off to leave it alone.

[RetiredOne]

Originally Posted by drmike961

Stupid question but when tightening down the outer U bolts will that cause any change to the inner spring U bolts, therefore requiring any adjustments or tightening to those bolts?

When adjusting the U-bolt, you need to alternate on each leg, a few turns on the outside leg, a few turns on the inside leg. You want to keep the flat part of the "U" level and in contact with the top of the spring.

[drmike961]

I was not referring to the legs of the bolt, I was referring to the pair of center bolts on the pack.