LCI Level Up Problem

[Camper_bob]

So last night I brought the rig home from storage to get it ready for a trip this weekend. I parked on the other side of the driveway than I normally do because it's a bit more level and would be easier on the jacks.

So I went to auto-level and got a message that the operation failed. I thought hmm, that's weird. I'm less than 1 degree out all around on this spot. The rear jacks (mainly the passenger side) sounded like they were running, but it wasn't lifting. Kind of like it couldn't build enough pressure.

DW was yelling at me about the boy needing to go to bed and she needed help, so I hit the auto-retract. All the jacks went up, but the rear passenger side kept running, even though it was retracted.

DW kept yelling, so I left it in auto-retract and went inside to put out whatever fires she was dealing with. When I got back, I had an error and an alarm, and the panel said "Operation timed out, Return levelers for service". Just great.

So, I was able to clear the error code (hold "retract" and "enter" buttons for 3 seconds) and try the manual operation on the pad. I ran the rears down first, and sure enough, they would extend and retract, but they wouldn't lift, especially the passenger rear. The fronts seemed fine, though I didn't test them "hard".

I was able to get it close enough for government work using the manual mode, then I shut it down and went to bed. I was able to download the manual on my phone before I fell asleep, and I read through the entire 18 pages.

Troubleshooting states that it's a leaking hose or fitting, but wouldn't there be ATF on the ground if there was a leak?

I'm hoping it's just the ATF is low, so I'll pick some up at lunch and check that this evening when I get back home.

I guess next would be a pressure switch? Or one of the valves? Either of those, and unfortunately it's going in under warranty. But I'd rather fix it myself to save the time and headache... If it's a hose or fitting, that's easy; I live in a rural agricultural community, everybody and their brother makes hydraulic hose.

Any other thoughts?

[Camper_bob]

Interesting that no one had any input...

Anyway, I checked the fluid level, and it was fine per spec. I also discovered that I was wrong about this only affecting the rear jacks; it affects the fronts as well. It's acting like it can't build enough pressure in the extended or retracted positions.

I ran through the "purging" procedure outlined (if you could call it that) in the installation manual.

No glory.

The jacks will run to the ground, begin lifting a little bit, and then stop lifting. The pump still runs, but the jacks won't extend any further. When retracting, the jacks will come up fine, and when they are fully retracted, the pump will run until the system "times out".

We'll just use our legos this weekend to get level and run the jacks manually for a little stabilization.

One of my main concerns at this point is that when I release the parking brake with the engine running, the system is designed to go into auto-retract mode. Auto-retract mode doesn't work, it times out and alarms. If the brake is released, the engine is running, the retract process times out, I reset the system, it automatically starts again. I wonder if it's going to alarm the entire time I'm driving, or keep trying to go through the cycle. When the process times out, the alarm eventually shuts up, but it takes a while...

This could get pretty annoying pretty quick. I might need to locate a main fuse for that system...

[MFalcon]

Very interesting issue. I have the Bigfoot auto levellers on my rig and when the engine starts and the "all up" indicator on the control panel is not on, I only get a warning alarm. The alarm went off once, when I was on the highway and it scared the crap out of me. I pulled over and need to do use the "emergency retract" to get the "all up" light to come on and the alarm to shut off. My jacks are not designed to auto retract when I start the engine and have the emergency brake off. Let us know if you find an answer to your problem and good luck. Cheers.

[2edgesword]

"I'm less than 1 degree out all around on this spot."

Call me simple minded but if the place on the driveway is only off by 1 degree I wouldn't expect there would be much lifting. What are the leveling tolerances for the sensors that control this unit?

[Camper_bob]

Originally Posted by 2edgesword

"I'm less than 1 degree out all around on this spot."

Call me simple minded but if the place on the driveway is only off by 1 degree I wouldn't expect there would be much lifting. What are the leveling tolerances for the sensors that control this unit?

No, not simple minded.

While the tolerances are pretty loose on this (IMO), the system still says that without help, the rig is "out of level". If I initiate an auto-level process, it will say that it is unable to get the rig level. That was at the beginning, actually at this point, it won't even begin the leveling process. The panel still thinks the jacks are "down", so the first step in the auto-level process is to bring them up (even though the manual contradicts this). Anyway, when I hit "auto-level", it tries to bring the jacks up first, times out and throws an error code. Every time. Auto-level is completely non-functional at this point.

So I can use the manual function in this particular spot to get it pretty darn close, but that's just because I'm pretty close anyway ... in THIS spot in my driveway. In the manual function, the jacks will run to the ground, lift the rig slightly and then stop lifting while the pump is still running. The jacks SHOULD lift the rig until they stroke out or the rig gets so unlevel that the system deems it "unsafe", which is something like 3.5 degrees IIRC.

As an aside, it is extremely odd to me that left/right leveling is accomplished using ONLY the rear jacks. Don't you think that would twist the frame?

Anyway, I think about the only thing left I can do is try to do a "Zero Point Calibration" in an effort to get the system going again. I'm no engineer, but my gut tells me that won't work. There is some physical reason the jacks won't build pressure. Be it the manifold, one of the fittings, the motor, whatever.

Nope, this one's going back to the dealer. But not until after our trip this weekend. That is unless someone provides or I find a "magic bullet" cure...

[Jopopsy]

Originally Posted by Camper_bob

As an aside, it is extremely odd to me that left/right leveling is accomplished using ONLY the rear jacks. Don't you think that would twist the frame?

I went through this exercise on the FR forum:

Lippert LCI Leveling Jacks Question - Forest River Forums

In the end this is what Lippert said:

**************
It does not twist the frame because the front two jacks share a valve so fluid is free to move between the front two jacks and equalize. Your system is just like our 5th wheel Level Up system.

Thanks,
**************

[Camper_bob]

Update:

I went through some more diagnostics after talking to a tech at CW. I had already been through most of what he had said. One thing he mentioned was the strength of the batteries and to make sure there was plenty of voltage. I knew I had plenty, but I figured I would check it out just in case. The panel read 13.8 volts, so power is not the problem.

I went around and traced every hydraulic hose under the coach checking for leaks or looseness in the connections. None of either to be found; all connections were tight, and no leaks. Reservoir remains full.

I saw a troubleshooting video where someone "jumped" the harness to the pressure switch as a diagnostic on that part. I did so, and no change. So I'm now pretty confident it's NOT the pressure switch. My best guess at this time is a bad motor.

I found out that my local CW cannot service my unit, they don't deal Jayco. The closest one that can is the one that I purchased from 2.5 hrs away. So, my next call is to LCI support to see if there is any other troubleshooting I can do (or if they'll send me a new motor; doubtful since they're like $600. I can install it if they'll send it, it's not that hard). Next contact after that (assuming no glory with LCI) will be to Jayco to have them authorize my local mobile RV tech or a shop in the adjacent town, to fix it.

[cabinetmaker]

Originally Posted by Camper_bob

Update:

I went through some more diagnostics after talking to a tech at CW. I had already been through most of what he had said. One thing he mentioned was the strength of the batteries and to make sure there was plenty of voltage. I knew I had plenty, but I figured I would check it out just in case. The panel read 13.8 volts, so power is not the problem.

I went around and traced every hydraulic hose under the coach checking for leaks or looseness in the connections. None of either to be found; all connections were tight, and no leaks. Reservoir remains full.

I saw a troubleshooting video where someone "jumped" the harness to the pressure switch as a diagnostic on that part. I did so, and no change. So I'm now pretty confident it's NOT the pressure switch. My best guess at this time is a bad motor.

I found out that my local CW cannot service my unit, they don't deal Jayco. The closest one that can is the one that I purchased from 2.5 hrs away. So, my next call is to LCI support to see if there is any other troubleshooting I can do (or if they'll send me a new motor; doubtful since they're like $600. I can install it if they'll send it, it's not that hard). Next contact after that (assuming no glory with LCI) will be to Jayco to have them authorize my local mobile RV tech or a shop in the adjacent town, to fix it.

Bob...doubt it's the motor as you said in original post that the unit runs down and up just won't level. I would suspect the control panel or battery.

Make sure your battery doesn't just have the proper voltage but also has enough amps or power...big difference. Sometimes a battery will show good until you put a load on it.

[Camper_bob]

Originally Posted by cabinetmaker

Bob...doubt it's the motor as you said in original post that the unit runs down and up just won't level. I would suspect the control panel or battery.

Make sure your battery doesn't just have the proper voltage but also has enough amps or power...big difference. Sometimes a battery will show good until you put a load on it.

It's not that it won't level, the jacks won't build enough pressure to lift more than about an inch or so. Just enough to unload the suspension slightly. The jacks should be able to lift the tires off the ground. So, that's why it won't level, because the jacks don't have enough pressure to lift the coach enough to level it.

Given all the other symptoms, I doubt it's a power problem. With the coach having been plugged in for days, the motor running, and/or the generator running or plugged into shore power, the system should have more than enough power to drive the little motor. I would assume that even at idle, the alternator would be putting enough amps out, but I could have DW rev the engine some, get the alt to put out more amps, and see what happens. However, you bring up a good point that I hadn't considered or diagnosed yet (I just learned about it today). I could put the system into manual override mode and run the motor with an external power source (a drill is what the manual suggests) and see if I can raise the coach that way. If I could get enough pressure to lift the coach using the drill, that would indicate the motor might not be getting enough juice.

ETA: Also, the motor doesn't change tone like a motor that's not getting enough power. It gets loud and "raspy", but it doesn't change tone. IDK if that makes sense to y'all, but I don't know how else to describe it...

All that being said, perhaps the new battery (which was in the plans eventually anyway) will move up on the priority list. This will solve a host of other problems, but I doubt it will solve this particular problem.

In the meantime, I might take the battery out and have it load-tested at my local parts house just to eliminate it as a possibility if nothing else.

An update on this: I emailed LCI support about this issue today. I also found some more trouble-shooting in the "MyLCI" app on my phone. This app has a lot more information than is available on the website. Anyway, after reading through as much relevant information as I could find in there, I think it could be a valve as opposed to my previous thought about the motor.

If I get a chance this weekend, I might try some of the tips related to power that were mentioned above just to see what happens. Honestly, I hope it IS the battery as that's something I was going to replace/upgrade anyway.

[1955farm]

Call Jayco motorized warranty and tell them of your problem. Also explain to them the nearest Jayco Warranty location is 2.5 hrs away. They possibly will authorize you to take it somewhere else to get it worked on and either deal with that service center directly or reimburse you as long as authorization was granted. They have done this for numerous people I know.

[gprapim]

Originally Posted by 1955farm

Call Jayco motorized warranty and tell them of your problem. Also explain to them the nearest Jayco Warranty location is 2.5 hrs away. They possibly will authorize you to take it somewhere else to get it worked on and either deal with that service center directly or reimburse you as long as authorization was granted. They have done this for numerous people I know.

I did exactly that when I had problems with my levelers. Jayco said for the local repair shop to contact Equalizer Systems because Jayco was not the warrantor. The repair shop did and were authorized by Equalizer to make the repairs. My closest dealer is 1 3/4 hours away. They were very accommodating. Mine involved a new manifold, which was an expensive repair for them. Frankly, I would check out the battery and if that’s not the problem, I’d go to a nearby repair shop and let them deal with the problem. That is what a warranty is for !!

[pconroy]

Originally Posted by gprapim

Frankly, I would check out the battery and if that’s not the problem

I had something interesting happen last night as we came back.

Drive home, plug in, press Auto Level and the Low Voltage light blinks. Panel squeaks as if dying... Auto retract doesn't work - nothing.

What the hay? I'm plugged into Shore Power.
I know Shore Power drives the system because I can hear it speed up when moving from Coach Battery to shore power.

I leave it plugged in for a few hours and start something else.

Come back and now Auto Level works great!

So, I'm wondering if my coach battery has died and the levelers run directly off the battery?

[gprapim]

Originally Posted by pconroy

I had something interesting happen last night as we came back.



Drive home, plug in, press Auto Level and the Low Voltage light blinks. Panel squeaks as if dying... Auto retract doesn't work - nothing.



What the hay? I'm plugged into Shore Power.

I know Shore Power drives the system because I can hear it speed up when moving from Coach Battery to shore power.



I leave it plugged in for a few hours and start something else.



Come back and now Auto Level works great!



So, I'm wondering if my coach battery has died and the levelers run directly off the battery?

Put a load test on that battery. You can save yourself a lot of trouble and anxiety. I’m quite sure the levelers work off of it !!

[Camper_bob]

Originally Posted by 1955farm

Call Jayco motorized warranty and tell them of your problem. Also explain to them the nearest Jayco Warranty location is 2.5 hrs away. They possibly will authorize you to take it somewhere else to get it worked on and either deal with that service center directly or reimburse you as long as authorization was granted. They have done this for numerous people I know.

As soon as I hear back from LCI, this is probably what I'll do. I have 2 good options for independent repair services. One is a mobile tech who is local, the other is a shop in the next town that does a lot of collision repair.

I'm willing to do the labor, and will even pay for parts up to a certain level, but beyond that, I will let the warranty cover me. It's just easier and faster if I can do it myself rather than the hassle and waiting on warranty service.

[pconroy]

Originally Posted by gprapim

Put a load test on that battery. You can save yourself a lot of trouble and anxiety. I’m quite sure the levelers work off of it !!

agreed.
testing the battery is high on my to-do

[Camper_bob]

Update:

Heard back from LCI yesterday; here is the message:

"Good Morning Robert,

First off I would like to say that I'm impressed with your ability to trouble shoot this issue, it appears you are on the right track and did a lot of trouble shooting that we at Lippert Components would have suggested.

My recommendation in this situation would be as follows:
Press and hold the retract and enter buttons on the key pad at he same time for one to two seconds, this will clear out the error. Then re-set the zero point. I hope this will remedy the issues you are having and get you back to what we will consider normal operation.

I have attached the owners manual to assist you with any other issues you may encounter. See page 4 for zero point calibration instructions.

Thank you for contacting LCI and please feel free to contact us at any time in the future should you feel the need.

https://www.lci1.com/assets/content/...r_s_Manual.pdf

Michael Verduin"


So I'll try that next time I have the coach at home. Something tells me it won't work, but it's worth a try!