Lengthening a 37FS

rgolding · 10-19-2018, 06:13 AM

Needed a Title on this that would make it easy to search in the future.

I've seen motor homes with custom made motorcycle lifts and any number of different items on the back. To me nothing is impossible. Its just time, money, knowledge and compromise.

Our Seneca 37FS currently tows a Chevy Silverado pickup with a camper shell on a 6.5 foot, bed crew cab. This is our basement, storage room, box trailer, plus transportation when we are set up away from home. Between the pickup and Seneca, we have 2 bicycles on a rack that is on a double, vertical hitch for the tow bar. The bike rack is above the Blue Ox Tow Bar. 60,000 miles on this rig, on all terrain and it works well.

So as we get older, the bikes are being used less. But, we are finding we could use a golf cart, scooters, ATV or UTV to get around at our Summer and Winter camping areas. Thinking about how to carry it and looking at this area where the bikes are stored. Thinking of a steel platform, welded to the frame and above the tow hitch, but with a socket to the hitch and extending
about 60 inches out back and 8 feet wide, making it 3 inches less than the Seneca on each side. Weight capacity would be about 1000 lbs. Load from the passenger side with ramps. Our total length, towing going down the road, would be around 70 feet, instead of just less than 65 feet.

Question - how would this impact the air ride on the Seneca? Would bigger air bags on suspension be needed?

Okay guys, ask questions, give opinions, tell me what laws I'll be breaking and every other reason I can't or shouldn't do this. Always fun to see how people react to other people's ideas and lifestyles. Thank you in advance for any thoughts on this and taking the time to look at it.

Grumpy · 10-19-2018, 06:51 AM

Your front axle would be too light.

Camper_bob · 10-19-2018, 08:22 AM

I would be concerned about dragging it on the ground going over terrain like into and out of parking areas.

Robbbyr · 10-19-2018, 08:46 AM

You could put a lift on the back, there are several companies that make them.

I am considering adding a Hydralift to my Seneca next year to carry my Honda ST1300 while still towing a toad for when the weather isn't suitable for motorcycle riding. Hydralifts have been installed on both Kodiak and Freightliner Senecas with no adverse handling effects according to Hydralift. On the Freightliners with air bags the leveling system will automatically restore the ride height to normal. The Hydralift incorporates a receiver hitch into the system that will allow flat towing, it is just extended further back than our hitches are now.

Hydralift offers motorcycle rails and platforms for their lifts. And the lift itself can be removed relatively easily when necessary, if configured that way.

http://hydralift-usa.com/

jimp · 10-19-2018, 02:14 PM

Just buy an enclosed car hauler, get a smart car and scooters/bikes/atv/etc/etc., and be done with it. Would be safer as well

SloPoke · 10-19-2018, 02:42 PM

Rick -
I think we know what you are thinking here... UTV, ATV, Scooter, Harley AND a vehicle that can get you 50 miles back to the big city without breaking camp!

The problem we have is that we are always changing / swapping /adding what toys we are taking on each trip. Sometimes we are hauling a UTV and two ATV's and two Canoes to the lake... Next trip is the FJCruiser and the canoe to Florida. Sometimes we just take a long weekend to the Casino and the Seneca goes solo!

We finally settled on a universal solution that also doubles as our utility trailer when things are too big for the bed of a pickup.

Granted, our Toyota does not weigh as much as your Silverado, but I would guess less than 1,200# difference since we have extra Skid and Recovery gear onboard. But we take the Toyota exploring into places you would never consider taking your Silverado into.

If you think about a 26' trailer, that give you the flexibilty to haul what you want and you wont be overlength or overweight unless you are taking everything with you at once.

For us, With full tanks of fuel and water in the Seneca, the trailer with the Canoe, FjCruiser, tools and a full 35-gal spare water tank - we are right at our GCWR rating of 33k.

The pictures show an evolution of our current trailer setup, back to the previous ones

rgolding · 10-20-2018, 05:17 AM

Thank you for the responses.

RobR, what do you think that motorcycle in the picture weighs?

SloPoke, yeah the idea of a flatbed has entered my thoughts. The Son thinks that's a great idea, because he could use the flatbed, when we were storing it at his house.

To be blessed with such a wonderful life causes the brain to roam.

McGintys924 · 10-20-2018, 06:11 AM

I would think the rear overhang with a platform large enough for an atv would run the risk of group contact; I have almost got myself in trouble with the gen exhaust pipe.
I would like to do small cross over towing PWC and the open trailer is going to probably be best option. Unfortunately, enclosed trailers get heavy fast.

jimp · 10-20-2018, 06:44 AM

Look for a aluminum trailer as they are a lot lighter than the steel ones, easier to move around when hooking up. I have an aluminum motorcycle trailer that I can move around, actually drag it around from behind the shed up to the driveway (50 yds) by jack handle.

Robbbyr · 10-20-2018, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgolding

Thank you for the responses.

RobR, what do you think that motorcycle in the picture weighs?

SloPoke, yeah the idea of a flatbed has entered my thoughts. The Son thinks that's a great idea, because he could use the flatbed, when we were storing it at his house.

To be blessed with such a wonderful life causes the brain to roam.

I am guessing around 800 lbs.

SloPoke · 10-20-2018, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgolding

Thank you for the responses.

RobR, what do you think that motorcycle in the picture weighs?

SloPoke, yeah the idea of a flatbed has entered my thoughts. The Son thinks that's a great idea, because he could use the flatbed, when we were storing it at his house.

To be blessed with such a wonderful life causes the brain to roam.

The trailer idea actually came from a few trips with family that was pulling a Saturn Vue as their toad. I had a few opportunities to hook/unhook and learned the hard way that you never back up with one. We took a wrong turn and in the ensuing panic took the risk of backing up - vowed then that we would never do that again. I 'Insist having' the ability to back-up and get turned around, even if it means that I back down the road until I can turn the trailer into a driveway... and have done it many times, even on our last trip.

We have had this trailer for about 10 years, it actually started out as a 30' boat trailer for $400. We stripped the marine infrasture off and built the flat deck out of expanded steel refinery stair treads. Boat trailers are set up with their axles further back, allowing an ideal tongue weight with a full size jeep/toyota/rock buggy. We shortened the tongue to make it 26' overall and the right balance with a ATV on the front.

What we like the best about this combination... We are comfortable and rock-solid running down the road at 75-80MPH. TPMS on the trailer with the Seneca keeps track of our tires which are 265/70-17 10Ply Q rated truck tires off of the typical 3500/F350.

As far as loading/unloading the Toyota??? It might take me another 3-5 minutes to get it done, but I don't have to get down on my hands/knees once. The additional time is in part because I use 6 attachment points on the Toyota. I also saved $$$ on supplemental brakes, and we can take Stacy's Chevy Equinox or even our 65' Chevrolet BelAir depending on where we are going (wished I could find the pictures of the BelAir on the trailer).

McGintys924 · 10-20-2018, 12:56 PM

Backing up a trailer with the axles further back (like a boat trailer) is exponentially easier than one with mid axles like the average car trailer (or my previous bumper pull keystone).

SloPoke · 10-20-2018, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McGintys924

Backing up a trailer with the axles further back (like a boat trailer) is exponentially easier than one with mid axles like the average car trailer (or my previous bumper pull keystone).

^ ^ ^ X2

"""exponentially easier""" is really an understatement, especially behind the Seneca... most all of our fuel stops are at large truck stops and include parking in the truck lot... Stacy likes to tease me when I have to take a "pull forward and try again" when backing in between two trucks. (We judge Rock Crawling where we penalize the competitor points for having to back up)

Not to mention.. when it is tracking behind a Seneca, taking into account the distance from the rear axle to the hitch - this combination tracks only 2" inside the rear tires on a tight right or left turn. The fenders are 102" at the outside width and our tires are actually over width at the sidewall with the larger Truck Tires.

There is one downside though... When you are making a tight left U turn and then a sharp right before you get straightened out from the U... It does not track that well and has an attraction to palm trees in Florida RV parks near Disney. The only damage was my ego...

McGintys924 · 10-21-2018, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SloPoke

^ ^ ^ X2

"""exponentially easier""" is really an understatement, especially behind the Seneca... most all of our fuel stops are at large truck stops and include parking in the truck lot... Stacy likes to tease me when I have to take a "pull forward and try again" when backing in between two trucks. (We judge Rock Crawling where we penalize the competitor points for having to back up)

There is one downside though... When you are making a tight left U turn and then a sharp right before you get straightened out from the U... It does not track that well and has an attraction to palm trees in Florida RV parks near Disney. The only damage was my ego...

That had me laughing for a while! So would it be better to have a custom trailer built rather than purchasing an aluminum car trailer if it truly makes that big of a difference in maneuvering.

OP sounds like they will be in the same boat as you Steve, in that his toys will be at the front of the trailer while a heavy vehicle at the rear.

However, I look to have a small suv connected to a PWC (Jetski) on top of the trailer. This could be reversed and the ski could be backed up on the trailer if it would be best to have heavy load (vehicle) over axles toward the back of the trailer (like a boat trailer). Figure it will be as easy to back the jetski onto a trailer as off. Would want to practice with tape in the driveway first. Or would the Seneca really notice the increased tongue weight (keeping under the recommended 1000 pounds) if the vehicle was at the front with rearward trailer axles?

rgolding · 10-21-2018, 12:03 PM

This has gotten a little away from my original post and that's okay. We currently tow the crew cab pickup with the camper shell over the bed because the bed of the pickup is loaded with 1.5 inch scale steam engines and riding cars. Of course, none of this weight is on the tongue except for the towing, because the pickup carries it own weight.

Traveling across the Country to Live Steam Events, you see all kinds of rigs. Its amazing what can be put in a toy hauler and the different vehicles that tow them. Even see box trailers towing traditional campers behind them.

Our son and his family do rodeos. Lot less "Hold my beer and watch this" moments in Live Steam Ride on Trains.

SloPoke · 10-21-2018, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgolding

This has gotten a little away from my original post and that's okay. We currently tow the crew cab pickup with the camper shell over the bed because the bed of the pickup is loaded with 1.5 inch scale steam engines and riding cars. Of course, none of this weight is on the tongue except for the towing, because the pickup carries it own weight.

Traveling across the Country to Live Steam Events

Ahhhh that is an important part to mention.. You need your toad to be able to haul the trains to the events - and store them between events. That surely changes the trailer strategy. The trailer approach is going to add more weight than you really need!

Back to Robby's Idea... Hydrolift and the extra weight would be just over the maximum toungue weight of a trailer... our old FLH weighs 880# I think that along with the lift would be awfully close to 1k that the hitch limit says.

Duke4857 · 10-21-2018, 01:03 PM

I have a travel trailer not a motorhome. This was some very interesting reading. I always was curious how that trailer towed with the jeep on the back. Cure, build the trailer to fit your needs. Thinking out of the box helps. Most trailers are built on a 55/45 split where the axles are located. 55% of the weight on the front of the trailer/45% on the back. Our 24RKS has the axels moved farther back as well. All of the tanks (fresh water, grey, black, grey) are close to the axles giving the trailer a great balance for towing. Thanks for the discussion all, I enjoyed it, even though it has nothing to do with our needs...for now.

SloPoke · 10-21-2018, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McGintys924

So would it be better to have a custom trailer built rather than purchasing an aluminum car trailer if it truly makes that big of a difference in maneuvering.

Not to hijack Rick's post...

Originally... I looked at a Featherlite trailer to tow the BelAir to car shows and could not afford the extra cost at the time. I wanted to have 10k GVWR and the costs skyrocket at the larger capacities - so went the build it myself route.

Boat trailers were dime a dozen at the time and I picked up one with good bones and started to design/fabricate the deck so that the overall weight was as light as I could make it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by McGintys924

However, I look to have a small suv connected to a PWC (Jetski) on top of the trailer. This could be reversed and the ski could be backed up on the trailer if it would be best to have heavy load (vehicle) over axles toward the back of the trailer (like a boat trailer). Figure it will be as easy to back the jetski onto a trailer as off. Would want to practice with tape in the driveway first. Or would the Seneca really notice the increased tongue weight (keeping under the recommended 1000 pounds) if the vehicle was at the front with rearward trailer axles?

One of the advantages of having the axles farther back, gives us the flexibility of backing our Toyota on the trailer if we haul a lot of weight on the front half of the trailer. We keep our tongue weight just under the 1k limits and the Seneca air suspension adjusts perfectly.

I would suspect that if we were hauling dual PWC's with a trailer and a small SUV, I would consider backing the entire package together on our trailer, adjust it's placement forward/rearward to get the tongue weight right under 1k and chain it down. If you wanted, you could disconnect the SUV from the PWC trailer and run to town if needed.

I envision that dual PWC's & trailer would come in at about 2100#, then the SUV at 4,100#. That on a steel trailer would be well under the 10k# gross and balanced well for the highway. (a little heavier that we are today) Very do-able, i would not hesitate for a minute behind the Seneca.

McGintys924 · 10-21-2018, 03:15 PM

Can you tow dolly a truck (pictures attached)?

I actually only need space for a single PWC trailer (1400 pounds) and that is probably about right for the suv. Do you think it would be prohibitively challenging to back a trailer onto a trailer.

SloPoke · 10-21-2018, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McGintys924

Can you tow dolly a truck (pictures attached)?

I actually only need space for a single PWC trailer (1400 pounds) and that is probably about right for the suv. Do you think it would be prohibitively challenging to back a trailer onto a trailer.

How difficult is going to depend on how wide the PWC trailer is and how much room you have between the fenders on the trailer you are backing it on to. Our trailer is 82" between the fenders. Some single PWC trailers are 55" wide, so while maybe a challenge solo, with a spotter watching it's not that hard.

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