Lippert Kwikee Steps

[jd99336]

I did numerous searches and read many posts on the topic of inop steps, but they are mostly dated, so figured I would present my current experience on the topic.

My steps became intermittent a month or two ago and failed to extend on our most recent trip. After looking into the obvious, I thought I would run through the process a little bit and what I have found thus far.

1. First and foremost, these steps are wired through your engine battery. It must be charged and healthy. A weak or dead battery will cause the steps to fail. Checked my battery for full charge, but no joy.
2. There is likely a fuse up front, but I did not start there. There are two fuses near the steps themselves. One was obvious in the old traditionally automotive fuse holder and the other, less obvious was in the wire bundle above the steps.
3. Kwikee has a troubleshooting guide that takes you step by step (pun) through the trouble shooting process. I found it to be pretty clear, so pulled out my meter and began running through the steps. Near the end, you pull the plug leading from the controller to the motor.

In my situation, the "red wire" leading to the motor was dead when door was open or closed, so the final result indicates the controller is bad.

We shall see if this is the case as I ordered the replacement from etrailer.com and will change it out next weekend.

As an aside, in an emergency, I found where you can disconnect the step deployment arm from the motor with a pin held in place with a cotter key. This should allow for manual depoloyment of the steps (I will try this during replacement to gain access to the controller).

Hope this is not too much repetition.

[WinnieView]

Did the replacement controller fix the problem?
We have had to replace a motor or two and even the entire assembly after a mailbox got in the way but never just the controller.

[jd99336]

Don't know for sure yet. Controller should get here tomorrow, but I may not replace it for a week or two (holding out for warmer weather....20 degrees this a.m.). Will report back.

The reason I believe it is the controller is that it worked fine, then went to intermittent working not working then nada. Using the troubleshooting guide, there was no voltage to the down power wire to the motor, so that should not indicate a motor problem. I guess I could have jumped the motor with a hot lead to test it, but decided to not do that.

[jd99336]

Well, I am truly stymied now. I replaced the controller module as indicated by the Lippert trouble shooting flow chart. Everything checked out except no power to the red wire (extension of steps) from the controller to the step motor. However after replacing the controller (this did involve having to splice in some of the plugs that were different on the new module versus the old one), I end up with the same fault. No power to the red wire going to the step motor.

To me that just seems bizarre as the flow chart is pretty logical and thorough. I have been pouring through the wiring diagrams from Kwikee/Lippert and cannot figure out what can be wrong.

All grounds are clean and well connected. I used the best weather proof splices I could find yet, I get power to the controller, and the step light comes on and off when I activate the magnetic switch, but nothing to the motor.

If any of you former NASA electricians can help me here it would be deeply appreciated. I have calls in to etrailer and Lippert to see if I can get some insight.

[Greyhawk01]

I was having issues with mine as well. The steps would intermittently come out when I would start the engine. I finally got tired of messing around and not wanting to buy a $200 control module that would probably end up failing again I went to my auto parts store and picked up an old school GM window switch from the help section and wired it up to the motor with a fuse. Problem solved.

[jd99336]

Originally Posted by Greyhawk01

I was having issues with mine as well. The steps would intermittently come out when I would start the engine. I finally got tired of messing around and not wanting to buy a $200 control module that would probably end up failing again I went to my auto parts store and picked up an old school GM window switch from the help section and wired it up to the motor with a fuse. Problem solved.

It turns out I was sent the wrong controller (spoke directly with Lippert Tech Support) so we will see if the replacement fixes it. I am intrigued by the use of a switch to do it manually, but wondered how you control it from over extension. I guess now it uses the resistance of the stops, sensing higher current draw and shuts it down. I guess using the "switch" method, you can pretty much use the same system.

If this doesn't work, or it breaks again I may go this route.

[jd99336]

While waiting for my replacement controller I chatted with the folks at Lippert Tech support. They were surprised that I was replacing the controller as "it is almost always the motor" so at their advise I tested the step motor. Based on the trouble shooting guide, it is hooking the red to plus and yellow to negative on a 12v battery to extend and reverse to retract. All I got was sparks and no movement on the motor at all.

Sometimes I wish I wouldn't get all DIY and just go to a shop....sigh...so now I will figure out how to pull the motor and somehow keep everything aligned since I can't get it to extend.

I pulled the pin from the arm to the steps and that puppy was jammed tight. May try the motor again after I walk away for a while. The steps themselves swing freely once disconnected from arm.

[MikeThompson]

When my motor died, I used vise grips to hold the steps in the extended position till I picked up the new motor. Used a short ratchet strap to keep them closed when we drove.

[jd99336]

Well, post mortem is that it ultimately was the motor. After disconnecting everything, I could not get the motor to move in any direction with a direct connection to a battery. I pulled the motor apart and found where there were some flat spots and built up corrosion on the magnets and such which I cleaned up and lightly sanded. This made the motor work fine, but it still had some "flat spots" where it would hesitate. As such I ordered a new motor today from Amazon for $80 (after confirming part number with Lippert).

Bottom line is I will have some spares as my old controller is apparently ok (have not tested yet) and the motor now works. They will go in a box. As soon as i reinstall the new parts, I am hoping all will be well. All in all, I have a much better understanding of the step system. All in I am out about $150 for new parts which is the same I was quoted for just the diagnostic time at a couple of dealers. So, despite the frustrations, I am still in cheaper and know what has been done.

[klspahr]

We have class a, and when parked on the street, the stairs would hit the curb and stop. I thought that this was ok because they were designed to stop on high current. Then one time the plastic gears in the motor stripped out. When i installed the new $80 motor I put a little switch by the door to disable the steps. Hopefully that will keep me from destroying another motor.

[che57vy]

A Ford Tarus window motor fit mine a lot less than Amazon

[michael.g]

Sorry to hear of your troubles jd99336. When the Kwikee step in our Greyhawk stopped working, I read through the troubleshooting steps a few times. I bought the 4 pin connector tester and then went to work. After looking at the step and the 4 pin connector and realizing there were multiple grounds and the manual didn't say which ground to use, I tossed the connector and skipped to testing the motor. I cut the wires to the motor, connected them to a battery and nothing. I didn't even get a spark.

Since Lippert admits it is usually the motor that fails, it would be nice if they'd re-arrange the troubleshooting guide so that testing the motor is the first thing to try.

-Michael

[jd99336]

Originally Posted by michael.g

Since Lippert admits it is usually the motor that fails, it would be nice if they'd re-arrange the troubleshooting guide so that testing the motor is the first thing to try.

-Michael

True, in fact, during my testing procedures, the tests kept indicating it was the controller (with door open, step switch on, there was 0 volts to the Red Wire which is the power to the motor step extension position), so I figured it was the controller.

Testing the motor first would have disproved that theory, but it is also possible that the motor failure caused a problem elsewhere. Won't know until it is all back together. I am still wondering if a fuse somewhere has blown, although inspection of the 20amp inline fuse to the 4 pin connector shows it to still be supply power.

Guess we will see. Oh well....such is the life of RV ownership.

[jd99336]

Originally Posted by che57vy

A Ford Tarus window motor fit mine a lot less than Amazon

I looked at this route...they were about $50 or so from what I could find, but I never could seem to match a part number with anything so being tired of crawling under the motorhome multiple times, I just ordered the right part number. That was worth the $30 to me, but next time around, I will take my old motor and go looking at the parts stores.

[jd99336]

I will admit it. I am exasperated to near nervous break down. For the particular step controller, I have been given no less than 4 (four) different part numbers. I think I have finally narrowed it down to the correct ones, but am nearly to my breaking point. There is the original part number, a Kwikee part number, a Lippert number, then an obsolete part number and it's replacement. I gave up on eTrailer who has been great, but can't get the same answer out of them twice, even after they call Lippert. When I call Lippert I have received no less than 3 different part numbers.

I am going to return all of the controllers, install just the motor and see if that corrects the issue (the motor was froze up, so likely it). If my old controller still works, I will run with that until it fails then decide what to do. If it doesn't....I may just bang my head against the wall until I pass out so I can get some rest. Oh...and SKU and Part# are not necessarily the same.

Even beyond this, I found an old Lippert/Kwikee guide to their steps. In it, my original part number 1510000140 is shown as hard wired to the motor whereas 1510000172 has a plug in the motor. My part 1510000140 uses a plug and the 1510000172 that I was originally sent did too...however the two parts apparently use the door switch differently so 172 did not work. Wow...I thought this would have been such an easy project. Thinking real hard about just hard wiring a switch and putting it up and down manually as someone else noted.

[WinnieView]

Hang in there. We have been dealing with the same thing for 15+ years and it must be why we both have gray hair, either that or the kids when they were teenagers.

We had to replace the upper half of our 10-year old water pump today and it actually all went together and worked the first time! That's us 1, RV 0--for today that is.

[jd99336]

Success....totally the motor. New motor, old controller, all is well

[Greyhawk01]

Glad to hear you got it fixed. My steps started to act up after driving thru a winter storm. Rain, ice , snow, and salt. In my humble opinion the controllers and motors should not be exposed to the elements like ours are subjected to. Window motors ad electronics in an automobile are mounted in the door or passenger compartment while ours areexposed to the elements.

[norty1]

Every time I camp next to someone with a mh, I pick their brains about potential problems. Most I have talked with all say that they have had problems with the auto steps. Most were intermittent and eventually traced to bad connections or wire splices that get wet or loose.

Maybe by the time I have to address that, I won't have any hair to turn grey!

[michael.g]

Originally Posted by Greyhawk01

Window motors ad electronics in an automobile are mounted in the door or passenger compartment while ours areexposed to the elements.

I just had to replace the window motor in our Ford Taurus. It was a pain in the butt. Replacing the motor for the electric step was a piece of cake compared to removing the door panel, drilling out the rivets, etc. on the Taurus. On our Greyhawk, the control board seemed pretty well protected from the elements. The motor, not so much. I was pretty happy to see the motor was easily accessible.

-Michael