Lithium Battery Class C

75H · 06-12-2019, 09:57 AM

I want to replace the single Group 27 house battery in our 29MVP with a 100w Lithium (LiFePO4).

Reasons: smaller & lighter, 2x power, maintenance free, time to replace lead acid battery.

Also, despite having a GoPower 100w flex, we get a "LoBatt" on the fridge a few hours into prepping for a trip.

Dealer says lithium replacement is a drop in & go, however suggests installing an on/off toggle between the solar panel & controller for use when plugged into shore power. I do not want to make any other mods.

My question - any Class C owners out there with experience just replacing the single lead acid battery w/lithium and no other mods? Does it fully charge? Any other issues? Comments? Thanks.

Pfflyer · 06-12-2019, 10:13 AM

I'm no expert but lithium has a different charge profile than what came with your rig so I would think your charger needs to have that profile. With that said I don't think it will be "drop and go" but the swap is doable.

75H · 06-12-2019, 10:54 AM

Thanks Pfflyer, I'm a bit surprised the solar controller doesn't have an "off" selection, and a toggle is something I'd like to install anyway.

From what I've read, a lithium battery would only charge to 80% with current vehicle alternator/shore set up. However, if "80%" is still better than the lead acid battery and causes no harm, I'd like to convert.

This is not a situation where I'm trying to run the a/c, microwave, or live off a bank of lithium batteries, so I don't want to mess with existing hardware.

I did once use a lead acid/AGM combo for a dual set up in a pickup (no isolators) and wasn't happy with the way the batteries charged. Went to dual lead acid and electrical system is happy again. Dealer said I would not experience a problem like this with the motorhome.

Hopefully someone has tried a drop in lithium in a 29MV and can let me know.

Subaru297 · 06-12-2019, 11:32 AM

If you get a decent solar charge controller it should be programmable and it can charge the LiFePO4 battery to 100%. Most lead acid chargers (including alternators) are set to around 14.4 volts. The LiFePO4 battery will be fully charged at 14.6 volts. The problem with flooded lead acid chargers is that they will drop down to a 13.6 volt float charge possibly before the lithium battery is fully charged.
But if you get a good charge controller you can program it for the slightly higher voltages needed for lithium. It may even contain a pre-programmed lithium charge profile.

And don't worry about turning off the solar charge controller when plugged into shore power. Nothing bad will happen from having the CC and the converter charging the battery. More often than not once people install solar they will turn off their converter anyway and won't be seeking out shore power as often as the solar does a much better job of keeping your battery healthy anyway.

Oh, and you are probably looking for a 100 Amp Hour battery. Not 100w battery.
Something else to consider if you are handy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O94aEaa6d1A

Cheers

Subaru297 · 06-12-2019, 11:59 AM

A little more info from Battle Born Batteries....

Among charging algorithms for lead acid batteries, there is a wide variation for these values. The bulk and absorption voltages typically vary between 14.0 and 14.8 V and the float can vary between 13.2 and 13.8 V. The 12V Battle Born batteries sit comfortably right in the middle of these ranges. We recommend a bulk and absorption voltage of 14.4V. A float is unnecessary, since Li-ion batteries do not leak charge, but a floating voltage under 13.6V is fine.

https://battlebornbatteries.com/char...po4-batteries/

Apparently the default voltages of 14.4 and 13.6 are fine for the LiFePO4 batteries. Sounds like they last a bit longer when running between 20% and 90% state of charge anyway. So size your battery bank based on only getting 90% capacity from it.

75H · 06-12-2019, 05:50 PM

Thanks Subaru297, yes, brain meant to say 100amp battery! So, I checked on my GoPower Solar Controller. Bad news is it only has Flooded/AGM/Gel profiles.

I can boost, but who wants to mess with that. Good news is GoPower has a controller with a lithium profile available that can be swapped out.

So I spoke to original solar installer who runs a quality RV shop. His concern was also about the type of converter/charger installed in the Jayco. He cautioned me that some multi-stage converter/chargers weren't designed for lithium and could burn up the battery. Anyone know?

I have two days to decide on picking up the lithium at a great price and want to make the correct decision.

He went on to say that lithium replacements are relatively new, and RV manufacturers will gradually adapt hardware to be compatible. For our situation of 1-2 night dry camping, he suggests upgrading to AGM instead of lithium. Unless of course, I want to consider possibly having to replace the OEM converter/charger also.

Opinions welcome.

pconroy · 06-12-2019, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 75H

So I spoke to original solar installer who runs a quality RV shop. His concern was also about the type of converter/charger installed in the Jayco. He cautioned me that some multi-stage converter/chargers weren't designed for lithium and could burn up the battery. Anyone know?

No but it's highly doubtful the converter in there is Lithium aware.
I'm with the others: "Drop and go?" Yeah, no... Doubtful.

Call the battery people.
Ask them what they think.

I've been reading about Li and while I like what I read, I'm still thinking "Too early, not yet."

You know what they say about Pioneers?
They're the ones with the arrows in their backs.

Subaru297 · 06-13-2019, 08:50 AM

I did a bit more reading on this and I think your current charger will be fine. LiFePO4 batteries are very stable. I ran one in my motorcycle for a couple years and never had to charge or balance it.

Here is some good information from the same website as the video above.

https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/di...r-battery.html

As long as you don't over charge it over 14.6 volts (Very unlikely with a standard converter) or draw it down too much (keep above 12.5 volts) or try to charge it while the battery is freezing you should get good life out of it. I think high temperatures also reduce cycle life as well but that might be a different battery chemistry I was reading about.

Good luck and let us know what you go with.

Cheers

75H · 06-13-2019, 11:16 AM

So I looked at the links, watched videos, and explored truck camper blogs to see how those folks handle replacing a single flooded with lithium. Also, a new post on this site describes & remedies the fridge condition we experience when not on shore power.

Without a lithium profile on our solar controller and a known charging profile on the 29MV's charger/inverter, I'm going to pass on a "plug & play" lithium replacement. Even if it works, I've learned that the battery may never get fully charged with our current hardware set up.

Also, a lack of responses helped me understand a lot of owners haven't tried this yet without making other modifications that I don't want to mess with.

Like pconroy said, too many unknowns when other options are available for a 1-3 day dry camping trip (current solar, current generator, and/or take along the portable Honda).

Thanks for the input! Look forward to learning more about all this. Battery dealer where we're at said no problem selling the battery they ordered to someone else.

RobieMo · 06-13-2019, 11:34 AM

75H...before you throw in the towel. You mentioned that you have the opportunity to get a lithium battery at a great price. If you bought a new charge controller for that battery where would you be price wise? If you could get a battery and charge controller for a good price then I would say go for that. Switching out the charge controller is easy.

I went with a 2 battery upgrade. Part of that upgrade was changing out the charge controller. Let me tell you this.....Once it is done, you WILL NOT be disappointed you did it. We love our set up. My rv sat in storage for a few months this winter. I did not think about my batteries the entire time. Went to pick it up and they still had a great charge. As for camping. Nothing better than not thinking about batteries. Life is too short....

Good luck.

RobieMo · 06-13-2019, 11:46 AM

75H.... One more thing. If you get 100% of a 100 amp battery but can only use 50% of that, you only have 50 amps of usable power. Now look at the 100 amp Lithium battery, even if you can only get it to 90% with your current set up and the battery can be taken down to 10% (assuming its a BB) you have more usable power. Oh and if you do run it down to zero (10%) you do NO damage to the battery. Take your other batteries down past 50% and see what happens.

I had a TT for over 10 years with non-lithium batteries so I know the game. When we bought the new ride I was committed to not doing that anymore. Is the initial cost more...YES. After one year of using them, it has been worth every penny.

75H · 06-13-2019, 12:22 PM

Thanks RobieMo! Totally agree and this is the experience we're looking for. I'm not sure I'd be as concerned about trying this on a TT as I am on a motorhome. However, I don't want to change the charger/controllers at this time (+ 9 mos. left on Jayco warranty).

Also, we store indoors commercially and disconnect both batteries every time. Just a thing about not wanting to be blamed if a fire starts in the building.

RobieMo · 06-13-2019, 06:02 PM

75H... It sounds like you understand the value of the Lithium batteries but just aren't quite ready for the leap of faith

Totally understandable. When you are
ready, know that once you get everything switched over you will love it.

One last thing to think about is regarding your solar set up. Consider adding a solar charge controller to the rv. That way you can use different solar panels. In my case I started with a flexible panel but a nice gust of wind thought it was a kite and took it for a ride. So when I went looking for a replacement I was able to purchase one without the charger/controller at a lower cost. If something happens to this one or want to add more, I just have to buy the panels. This all is my opinion of course.....

Best of luck.

75H · 06-16-2019, 08:33 AM

Great thread here:

https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f...light=Inverter

Harvey the RV · 06-22-2019, 05:08 PM

I have done what you're asking on my 2015 29MV. I did the swap in stages and have have no issues. I used the battle born drop in battery and the stock everything else to start with. I've continued to upgrade as money, time and desire went by. BB has a very well sorted out BMS that protects the Barry and has tons of hours use by tons in the RV community. They are expensive, that's true and if you're only going to do a day or 2 of the cord then maybe AGM is a good answer. The downside is you have to run the generator a lot longer to charge AGM. Bottom line, you can replace your current house battery with a BB on three 29MV and it will increase your battery time as well as charge of your stock charger/converter without issue. I've done it. If you're interested in the upgrades I went on to make, I'm glad to share. As for three solar CC , you can use the BB website or call them and they'll advise you on which option works with just about any CC on the market. Too easy. Good luck

75H · 06-22-2019, 07:48 PM

Thanks Harvey the RV, we we're next door to Boise when I was considering this, and it wasn't a BB battery which made me even more hesitant.

Exactly what I was looking for though, someone who has tried what I was trying to do.

Jeff Evans · 06-23-2019, 07:23 AM

I think I have the same setup you have. I have a solar panel with a a go power charge controller. It doesn’t have a lithium setting on it. But it works fine with the battle born lithium battery. It floats at 13.6 volts and once a day it charges to 14.6 volts. I don’t have a disconnect like your dealer recommending but I think that’s a good idea. Otherwise if you don’t have one one and you remove the battery the charge controller is still outputting and you may short it out and damage the controller or solar cell.
As far as the stock converter in the distribution panel mine is a progressive dynamic and it has a setting for lithium batteries. It works fine.
I love how long the lithium battery lasts. If you’re willing to spend the money it’s a great investment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 75H

Thanks Subaru297, yes, brain meant to say 100amp battery! So, I checked on my GoPower Solar Controller. Bad news is it only has Flooded/AGM/Gel profiles.

I can boost, but who wants to mess with that. Good news is GoPower has a controller with a lithium profile available that can be swapped out.

So I spoke to original solar installer who runs a quality RV shop. His concern was also about the type of converter/charger installed in the Jayco. He cautioned me that some multi-stage converter/chargers weren't designed for lithium and could burn up the battery. Anyone know?

I have two days to decide on picking up the lithium at a great price and want to make the correct decision.

He went on to say that lithium replacements are relatively new, and RV manufacturers will gradually adapt hardware to be compatible. For our situation of 1-2 night dry camping, he suggests upgrading to AGM instead of lithium. Unless of course, I want to consider possibly having to replace the OEM converter/charger also.

Opinions welcome.

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