New Seneca Owner with Questions

[SuddenRush]

Originally Posted by Robbbyr

I also bought a coach that had sat over a winter and I suspect the coach batteries went dead and froze. That severely damages the plates and kills the batteries. Took me a while to realize the damage and do load tests on them, they failed miserably. I probably could have fought with Jayco to warranty them, but I wanted something better than what they were going to put back in.

Now I have 4 Trojan T-105 6-volt house batteries and Trojan's battery watering system. Hook up bulb pump, stick pickup in gallon of distilled water, pump a few times, and each cell filled just to where they need to be. No overfilling or spills, no mess at all.

I would check the house batteries as suggested by others, might be the root of the jack problem.

My MH sat in Orlando, so I think there is little chance of them freezing in that weather, but still I will check on them with some load tests.

Speaking of freezing, how do I keep the water from freezing in the winter? MD can get pretty cold, and temps regularly dip into the teens and 20's for days on end.

Where did you find the Trojan battery setup? Was it something you installed on your own? If mine are bad, I may talk with Jayco and see about a warranty replacement, but I am always interested in upgrades.

Thanks for all the advice everyone!

[SuddenRush]

Originally Posted by Dave_Jan

With regards to the water heater; i have found that if you keep the pressure around 50 to 55 the heater works very well and it does not surge. I purchased this water pressure regulator to fix this problem.

https://jet.com/product/detail/71472...8oXBoCdNPw_wcB

As for towing a box trailer; I have a car hauler as well and I found a used Trailer Toad (2016 Trailer Toad 3500 HD) and i am very happy with it. it transfers the tongue weight to the toad so the RV is just towing not supporting the weight. You should be mindful of the over hang from the axle to the hitch and the stress on the RV frame that comes from towing a car hauler.

Fuel: I purchased a Scan D to monitor my fuel status.

Great info about the pressure. I have a regulator now, but not adjustable. It sets it around 40ish PSI. Have you had any luck running off the water pump? Does anyone know pressure the water pump works at? I will be dry camping probably 75% of the time.

I have looked into the trailer toad. I think it would work well, but I just dont have the cash right now to get a toad right now. I do have a friend of mine who is a professional fabricator coming over this weekend to reinforce the hitch to the frame for additional support.

What is a ScanD? I think I found something online, but I want to make sure I'm looking at the right thing. ScanGaugeD - Advanced J1939 & J1708 compatible Vehicle Monitor for Diesel Pusher Vehicles : Linear Logic

If this is it, I like what it seems to do. I want to be able to monitor the trans temperature towing at the 33K weight or above all the time. Plus all the other monitors it seems to come with. For $170 it comes with all that monitoring? Was it easy to install?

[Dave_Jan]

Yes that is the ScanGauge D I have. it is very easy to install. It also allows you to add to what you want to monitor. When I get home I will post a pic.

I found the toad i have for 1500.

[Dave_Jan]

I also replaced my "Harris" batteries with interstate group 27's and bought two of these watering systems. So easy to check and fill.

Robot Check

[SuddenRush]

Best decision I made after buying a MH was to join this forum. Thank you all for help. I've learned more in the last 3 days then I think I would have in 3 months!

I will keep an eye out for a used Toad. For $1,500 it's really an awesome tool to relieve the stress.

Looking forward to the Scan D pics. I think I will have one on order by tomorrow.

[Robbbyr]

Originally Posted by SuddenRush

My MH sat in Orlando, so I think there is little chance of them freezing in that weather, but still I will check on them with some load tests.

Speaking of freezing, how do I keep the water from freezing in the winter? MD can get pretty cold, and temps regularly dip into the teens and 20's for days on end.

Where did you find the Trojan battery setup? Was it something you installed on your own? If mine are bad, I may talk with Jayco and see about a warranty replacement, but I am always interested in upgrades.

Thanks for all the advice everyone!

As far as sub-freezing weather, if the coach will not be in use it needs to have the plumbing winterized. Two schools of thought there; purging the water system with air to remove all water, and/or replacing the water with RV (non-toxic) antifreeze. I do both, blow everything out with air first and then fill the plumbing with antifreeze. Water heaters depend on the type. Most tank-style units are "bypassed" with all the water drained and the tank drain left open. Tankless units like the Girard you have hold very little water and Girard says it is okay to fill them with antifreeze over a winter. You also need to make sure the drain traps all have antifreeze in them to keep the traps from freezing. I also make sure the black and gray tanks have about 1/2-gallon of antifreeze in them so that it collects near the outlet valves in case any latent water was laying there. Some owners leave their tank valves wide open during the winter. Loads of resources online regarding winterizing/dewinterizing.

If the coach is in use below freezing you need to keep the furnace running. Our Senecas have heat ducted to the underbelly to keep the plumbing and tanks liquid. Just running space heaters in the coach will not do, the furnace must run to blow heat below. But there is a limit, extreme cold will still cause freezing unless even more precautions ($$$) are taken.

As far as the Trojan batteries, a local battery supplier near me takes care of many of the golf courses in my area and gets new pallet loads of the T-105 batteries almost weekly. They are very common in electric golf carts. I did install them myself, I had to reconfigure the battery wiring since the original 12-volt batteries are all wired in parallel (positive to positive, negative to negative). The T105s are 6-volt and so a pair has to be wired in series (positive to negative to achieve 12-volts), but then each set of "paired" batteries is wired in parallel to the other pair. The Trojans are true "deep-cycle" batteries as compared to the "dual-purpose" batteries we get stock. They have much heavier plates for longer life and more "charge-discharge" cycles. But they fit in my battery tray without modification, they are just a bit taller. I would not recommend someone converting to 6-volts if they are not very confident in their electrical skills. Hook it up wrong and the results could be disastrous to the rig and dangerous to the mechanic. Not trying to discourage progress, but I was a full-time firefighter for 33+years (paramedic for 20+) and I saw personally what can happen.

You will find people on both sides of the 12-volt/6-volt battery debate, adamant in their choice. Many campers have 12-volt batteries that serve them very well for years. I did in my 2 prior Class C units. Others swear by the 6-volt route for longest battery life and best performance. Overall I believe the most important things one can do is keep your batteries maintained, and don't over-discharge them. That will reduce their life significantly. Overcharging and boiling the electrolyte out is another killer, as is allowing them to totally discharge where they then will freeze in cold temperatures.

[Robbbyr]

Originally Posted by SuddenRush

Looking forward to the Scan D pics. I think I will have one on order by tomorrow.

Here is a picture of mine, mounted to the headliner just to the left of the little cubbyhole above driver. I just glance up to see what it is reading. Display can be configured to show a multitude of readings, 4 at a time as you can see. In the picture of mine I am watching voltage, turbo boost, water temperature, and average fuel mileage. Yes, I actually can get over 11 mpg if I keep my foot out of it and around 60mph!

I love mine and as said earlier by other owners very easy to install. Where you mount it is up to you, I chose my location up high and had to fabricate a small mount actually bolted through the headliner. The display then is affixed to the mount with 3M Dual Lock adhesive strips so I can pop out the display when unit is stored. I use that stuff for everything! The cable goes down inside the windshield pillar trim to the diagnostic connector down under the dash to the left of the steering column.

[SuddenRush]

RobbyR, thanks for all the help and advice.

For the ScanD, do you know if Seneca's send Trans Fluid Temp? In other words, does it actually supply a reading to the ScanD? Some reviews I have seen said that many trucks/rv's do not send Trans Temp. It's something I want to keep an eye on with my setup, since towing is hardest on a transmission in my opinion.

I like the way yours setup, and I will probably steal your idea as my own. For the setup of the ScanD, did you put the fuel tank capacity as 74? It seems, by my reading around through some threads, that there is some disagreement as to how much fuel you can actually get in the fuel tanks due to their round shape and the location of the filler neck. I am thinking of setting mine to 60 gallon capacity to leave some buffer.

[Robbbyr]

Originally Posted by SuddenRush

For the ScanD, do you know if Seneca's send Trans Fluid Temp? In other words, does it actually supply a reading to the ScanD? Some reviews I have seen said that many trucks/rv's do not send Trans Temp. It's something I want to keep an eye on with my setup, since towing is hardest on a transmission in my opinion.

Mine does have transmission fluid temp as a monitored parameter. When I am in hilly country towing my SUV I usually have it displayed. Mine has never gone above 170 that I can recall. But it does start out at ambient, so it does read an increase in something as things work and heat up.

I also have my tank size set smaller but since my fuel sender seems better than some, I drive more paying attention to that.

It would be nice to know if the fuel tank manufacturer considers the 34 and 40 gallon ratings to be usable or ultimate capacity. Inquiring minds want to know!

[SuddenRush]

Great news about the trans temp on the Scan D.

This forum is great at spending my money. TPMS, Voltage Regulators, ScanD, Batteries, etc, etc, etc. But it's all great info, and I am just trying to guard against being stranded due to unpreparedness.

Thanks again to all for the help and advice.

[SuddenRush]

So this evening, I go out to move my RV, and as soon as I unplug the 50A shore power, my microwave turns off and my fridge starts beeping at me about no AC power. The master switch by the door is on. I reset it just in case, but still no power. My meter is dead, so I can't tell if they have any power, or if the inverter has quit. All of circuit breakers seem to good.

I have no idea..

Any suggestions?

[Grumpy]

Unless you have the fridge in the auto mode it won't switch to gas. As to the micro do you have the inverter turned on?

[Robbbyr]

If I am correct your Seneca has a Norcold which can run on propane or 110-volts AC. But unless Jayco changed something, the AC mode of the fridge only works when actually plugged in to shore power or with generator running. The AC function is not fed off the inverter. Only the microwave and TV work off the inverter circuit.

As far as the microwave going off, do you mean the clock? The inverter needs to be on and the batteries have to be in a good state of charge or the inverter will shut down. That was one of the first signs I experienced telling me that my coach batteries were shot, the inverter would not stay on due to 12-volt voltage sag.

[SuddenRush]

Yes, the clock went out. Good to know about the fridge not being on the inverter circuit.

I was worried my batteries might be bad, with the jacks having issues and all.

I will turn the propane back on to supply the fridge when travelling.

How to I tell if the inverter is on? How do I turn it off or on?

[Robbbyr]

Originally Posted by SuddenRush

So this evening, I go out to move my RV, and as soon as I unplug the 50A shore power, my microwave turns off and my fridge starts beeping at me about no AC power. The master switch by the door is on. I reset it just in case, but still no power. My meter is dead, so I can't tell if they have any power, or if the inverter has quit. All of circuit breakers seem to good.

I have no idea..

Any suggestions?

I know you said you were new to motorhomes, not sure how much dealer might have explained to you about your appliances and electronics. Please don't be offended if I say something you already know. But sometimes the orientation dealers provide can leave much to be desired.

Several of your systems will only work off of regular house current, 110-volts alternating current (AC). These include your air conditioners, televisions, and microwave. The inverter on our Senecas takes 12-volts direct current (DC) and converts it to 110-volt AC. However the inverter only feeds a few select 110-volt outlets including the microwave and the bunk television and the TV in the bedroom. My outside TV does not work off the inverter. Any 110-volt devices other than inverter-fed ones must have 110-volts supplied by the shoreline or the generator. Inverter-fed circuits are in a separate breaker box, on my unit this second set of breakers is below the wardrobe about 3 feet from my regular circuit breakers.

The refrigerator can use either its 110-volt heating element or propane to create heat to make cold (a whole other discussion on how absorption refrigeration works!). For the refrigerator to work on either source you do have to have the coach battery switch on. It requires 12-volts to operate its control circuits, even if the 110-volt heater is making it work.

All other systems run on 12-volts including the lighting, furnace, water pump, water heater control circuits, TV booster, etc. When generator or shoreline is supplying 110-volts, the unit's converter (different than the inverter) is converting 110-volts AC to 12-volts DC to run these devices and to charge the coach batteries. When no AC voltage is present, the coach batteries supply the 12-volts for those items.

[Robbbyr]

Originally Posted by SuddenRush

Yes, the clock went out. Good to know about the fridge not being on the inverter circuit.

I was worried my batteries might be bad, with the jacks having issues and all.

I will turn the propane back on to supply the fridge when travelling.

How to I tell if the inverter is on? How do I turn it off or on?

Inverter control panel with its on/off switch should be located where the generator control panel, tanks level indicators, awning switches, jack controls, etc.

Mine looks like this:

[SuddenRush]

Thank you so much for the explanations on how things work. I knew a couple bits of the info you said, but most of it was new to me. Well explained! Thank you for clarifying a lot of the confusion I had.

I will look at the inverter settings tomorrow. She is hooked back up to 50A shore power now, so all should be right with the world for the night.

Thanks again for clearing up much of my confusion!

[SuddenRush]

So, turns out, the inverter was indeed off. Found my switch where you said it would be.

After turning the fridge to Auto and getting the flame re-lit with propane, had no more issues with the fridge.

However, after the inverter was turned on, the microwave kept cycling power like every 5 seconds. I actually think the microwave may be faulty in this way only. I cycled the breaker for it. Inverter shows good voltage, batteries show good voltage when checked with a meter. Microwave works perfectly fine on the inverter for cooking. But if left idle (door closed, not in use) with the inverter on, it keeps cycling power. Just opening the door stops that. So we just unplugged it when the inverter was on to keep the beeping from driving us nuts. When we needed it, we plugged it back in and all went well.

On a separate note, we towed my trailer for the first time. Everything went quite well. I didnt have my trailer brake controller delivered yet, so I made the 20 mile trip using the engine exhaust brake religiously. Even without the brake controller, it towed amazing. Very impressed, happy and relieved!

Didn't make to any scales, but will look at that very soon.

[Robbbyr]

That is indeed strange with the microwave, never seen anyone complain about it exhibiting those particular signs or symptoms. Glad the towing went well too.

I've done a lot of mods to my Seneca, happy to pass along any tidbits I have learned!

[Robbbyr]

Originally Posted by SuddenRush

On a separate note, we towed my trailer for the first time. Everything went quite well. I didnt have my trailer brake controller delivered yet, so I made the 20 mile trip using the engine exhaust brake religiously. Even without the brake controller, it towed amazing. Very impressed, happy and relieved!

After I replied I remembered something else. According to other Seneca owners who tow trailers, we do have an electric brake controller pigtail under the dash making the controller installation that much easier.

I have had my dash apart numerous times for other mods, but never looked for the harness since I don't tow a trailer. But if you search the forum you may find a thread about it.