Safety warning

[Motorhead]

New to the forum and we decided to join after learning about a dangerous issue today involving the E450 and the Jayco Greyhawk design (although it involves any E450 on any manufacturer's coach, we just own a 2017 Greyhawk with 15,000 miles on it). We were gone on a 2 week trip and when we returned we discovered the day after our return that our power steering was leaking quite badly. It looked as if the reservoir had been overfilled except no one had touched it. Took it to the Ford dealer and 4 days later we find that we have a new power steering pump and 20 feet of hose installed. Here's the frightening part. The Ford mechanic came out to talk to us because we were experiencing the same power steering noise (he ultimately said air in the line and give it a couple days and/or drives to work its way out). What he also told us is the power steering on the E450s and the brakes were all connected together. This is Ford's stupid design. He literally said "if your power steering fails, your brakes will fail too so you better plan on jumping from your coach if that happens". We initially thought he was joking until he very straight faced said "that's the way Ford designed these RV's chassis and there's no way around it". THIS FORD MECHANIC WAS NOT KIDDING - jump from your coach if your steering fails because your brakes will go too!!! Having read this afternoon a 2018 post on the Ford forum from a guy who said the same thing happened on his truck, WE BELIEVE what the Ford mechanic told us today. JAYCO OWNERS BEWARE OF THIS FORD DESIGN. IT COULD BE DEADLY.

[Vicr]

You're going to believe one mechanic? Maybe call Ford engineering and corroborate his story.

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by Motorhead

JAYCO OWNERS BEWARE OF THIS FORD DESIGN. IT COULD BE DEADLY.

Not only FORD. GM used the same system on the KODIAK and I'm sure on other rigs.

When power brake systems fail it just requires more pedal pressure to stop. Do your brakes not work when you don't have the engine running?

If it was that dangerous I'm sure there would be Government agencies all over it. How many E-450's are used for Life Squads?

[muckinfuss]

Ford Hydroboost. The p/s pump also assists the brakes. My brother-in-law has a Ford with a Powerstroke and knows all about this (he says). Said there's a TSB out about it and also it seems to come from some sort of contamination that needs flushing.

[Motorhead]

As to Vicr - did you read the entire post carefully - we also went onto the Ford forum. Not an isolated issue. And trust when we say we will be inquiring directly to Jayco Motorized division and Ford's customer service on Monday morning. Document, document, document. But, again, there appears to be enough issues out there and, besides, why would any mechanic for any Ford dealership risk his own job if it were not true? Dealerships are independently owned and operated and for one of their mechanics to know of a clear problem/defect and not disclose to customers is a huge liability issue for the dealership much less for Ford.

As to Grumpy - all we can say is "Ford Pinto". Boom. Till the government came down around Ford. "Toyota Anything" Floor Mats. Till the deaths were clearly obvious and the government stepped in. The government can't even take are of current events much less step all over the big 3 for combining power steering and braking into one pump. You trust the government to protect you and your family ???

[GCAT9110]

Hold On, Hold On. Ford like many manufactures use a "hydraboost system" on their 2500 and up chassis, in other words no brake vacuum booster. Their is a hydraulic valve/amplifier where a typical brake booster would go, just behind the master cylinder. Its a better force multiplier than a typical vacuum booster. Yes, it operates off the P/S pump and if you did loose fluid you will still have brakes but with no power assist, same goes for the P/S. However, I am not sure about his comment about replacing 20 feet of P/S hose?? The P/S pump provides pressure for the steering gear box and the hydraboost valve and no where will you find 20 feet of P/S line in that circuit.

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by Motorhead

As to Grumpy - all we can say is "Ford Pinto". Boom. Till the government came down around Ford. "Toyota Anything" Floor Mats. Till the deaths were clearly obvious and the government stepped in. The government can't even take are of current events much less step all over the big 3 for combining power steering and braking into one pump. You trust the government to protect you and your family ???

Been is use for probably 20+ years.....nothing new

[Florida Ranger]

Did this Master Mechanic also tell you to not use your Emergency Brake before you Jumped out.....

[JimD]

Need the James Bond ejection seat option. Of course with a class C rig you will just end up in bed.

[Vicr]

Originally Posted by Motorhead

As to Vicr - did you read the entire post carefully - we also went onto the Ford forum. Not an isolated issue. And trust when we say we will be inquiring directly to Jayco Motorized division and Ford's customer service on Monday morning. Document, document, document. But, again, there appears to be enough issues out there and, besides, why would any mechanic for any Ford dealership risk his own job if it were not true? Dealerships are independently owned and operated and for one of their mechanics to know of a clear problem/defect and not disclose to customers is a huge liability issue for the dealership much less for Ford.

As to Grumpy - all we can say is "Ford Pinto". Boom. Till the government came down around Ford. "Toyota Anything" Floor Mats. Till the deaths were clearly obvious and the government stepped in. The government can't even take are of current events much less step all over the big 3 for combining power steering and braking into one pump. You trust the government to protect you and your family ???

Well aren’t we a little testy?!

[JFlightRisk]

The hydroboost systems have been around for a long time. Diesel engines, and GM big blocks are what I'm familiar with, and they don't produce enough vacuum to support power brakes, so the systems are designed to provide the boost via fluid.

If there's a leak in the system, the brakes will still function just like vehicles that don't have power brakes ( from years ago). The steering will get noisy from air in the pump vanes, and there'll be fluid on the ground.

The hydroboost can malfunction internally, with no fluid loss, but you'll notice a harder brake pedal when stopping. I replaced one on my FIL's GMC 2500 7.4L V8 a few years ago.

[gprapim]

Originally Posted by Motorhead

New to the forum and we decided to join after learning about a dangerous issue today involving the E450 and the Jayco Greyhawk design (although it involves any E450 on any manufacturer's coach, we just own a 2017 Greyhawk with 15,000 miles on it). We were gone on a 2 week trip and when we returned we discovered the day after our return that our power steering was leaking quite badly. It looked as if the reservoir had been overfilled except no one had touched it. Took it to the Ford dealer and 4 days later we find that we have a new power steering pump and 20 feet of hose installed. Here's the frightening part. The Ford mechanic came out to talk to us because we were experiencing the same power steering noise (he ultimately said air in the line and give it a couple days and/or drives to work its way out). What he also told us is the power steering on the E450s and the brakes were all connected together. This is Ford's stupid design. He literally said "if your power steering fails, your brakes will fail too so you better plan on jumping from your coach if that happens". We initially thought he was joking until he very straight faced said "that's the way Ford designed these RV's chassis and there's no way around it". THIS FORD MECHANIC WAS NOT KIDDING - jump from your coach if your steering fails because your brakes will go too!!! Having read this afternoon a 2018 post on the Ford forum from a guy who said the same thing happened on his truck, WE BELIEVE what the Ford mechanic told us today. JAYCO OWNERS BEWARE OF THIS FORD DESIGN. IT COULD BE DEADLY.

I had a similar situation occur some months ago, but I refilled the reservoir and it never happened again. I would get a loud power steering noise when I turned or put my foot on the brake. I also have a 2017 GreyHawk. Was this covered under the warranty, and if so, when did you have this fixed?

[Eric H.]

Originally Posted by Motorhead

New to the forum and we decided to join after learning about a dangerous issue today involving the E450 and the Jayco Greyhawk design (although it involves any E450 on any manufacturer's coach, we just own a 2017 Greyhawk with 15,000 miles on it). We were gone on a 2 week trip and when we returned we discovered the day after our return that our power steering was leaking quite badly. It looked as if the reservoir had been overfilled except no one had touched it. Took it to the Ford dealer and 4 days later we find that we have a new power steering pump and 20 feet of hose installed. Here's the frightening part. The Ford mechanic came out to talk to us because we were experiencing the same power steering noise (he ultimately said air in the line and give it a couple days and/or drives to work its way out). What he also told us is the power steering on the E450s and the brakes were all connected together. This is Ford's stupid design. He literally said "if your power steering fails, your brakes will fail too so you better plan on jumping from your coach if that happens". We initially thought he was joking until he very straight faced said "that's the way Ford designed these RV's chassis and there's no way around it". THIS FORD MECHANIC WAS NOT KIDDING - jump from your coach if your steering fails because your brakes will go too!!! Having read this afternoon a 2018 post on the Ford forum from a guy who said the same thing happened on his truck, WE BELIEVE what the Ford mechanic told us today. JAYCO OWNERS BEWARE OF THIS FORD DESIGN. IT COULD BE DEADLY.

You think the opinion of a mechanic that told you to jump from a moving vehicle is a good one? That is terrible advise and obviously from a mechanic that has little experience with hydro-boost systems. I don't know how long hydro-boost has been around total but I've worked on them since the early 80's. That's how you get power brakes on a diesel. It also does not make your brakes fail, just much more pedal pressure to get results.

[Forelyndogs]

I'm not a mechanic so "I ain't no expert", I did google HydroBoost brake systems and as several folks have mentioned here, they are common on diesel and any vehicle whose engine does not produce enough vacuum to safely operate the power brakes. I suspect part of the decision to use the Hydroboost may be related to that old vacuum wiper phenomenon where the vacuum to operate the wipers drops when the engine is accelerating. RVs need a lot of acceleration and you would not want to lose power brake boost just because you stepped on the gas. As also mentioned here, you will still have both steering and brakes if the power steering fails, though, I would be a bit worried about trying to maneuver and stop and big class C or Class A with no PS or PB, but it can be done if you're alert to what has happened.

[MC Medic Bob]

Originally Posted by Motorhead

New to the forum and we decided to join after learning about a dangerous issue today involving the E450 and the Jayco Greyhawk design (although it involves any E450 on any manufacturer's coach, we just own a 2017 Greyhawk with 15,000 miles on it). We were gone on a 2 week trip and when we returned we discovered the day after our return that our power steering was leaking quite badly. It looked as if the reservoir had been overfilled except no one had touched it. Took it to the Ford dealer and 4 days later we find that we have a new power steering pump and 20 feet of hose installed. Here's the frightening part. The Ford mechanic came out to talk to us because we were experiencing the same power steering noise (he ultimately said air in the line and give it a couple days and/or drives to work its way out). What he also told us is the power steering on the E450s and the brakes were all connected together. This is Ford's stupid design. He literally said "if your power steering fails, your brakes will fail too so you better plan on jumping from your coach if that happens". We initially thought he was joking until he very straight faced said "that's the way Ford designed these RV's chassis and there's no way around it". THIS FORD MECHANIC WAS NOT KIDDING - jump from your coach if your steering fails because your brakes will go too!!! Having read this afternoon a 2018 post on the Ford forum from a guy who said the same thing happened on his truck, WE BELIEVE what the Ford mechanic told us today. JAYCO OWNERS BEWARE OF THIS FORD DESIGN. IT COULD BE DEADLY.

I am experiencing almost the same issue. Our power steering pressure hose just popped off at a slip fitting. At the exit I had no power steering or brake assist because they are related. That happened on a Tuesday. CoachNet got right on it, but the nearest available shop was 55 mikes away in El Paso TX. They wont be able to even look at it until Monday or Tuesday. 4, 300 miles. Drivers should be warned.

[907-Jayco]

Similar happened to me crossing the Al-Can highway in a 2021 Greyhawk in August. Only difference is that the power steering hose connector disconnected from the pump. Lost both brakes and power steering, and shot the pump.

RV was stranded in Tok, AK for a week waiting for a replacement pump to be shipped in CA, but didn't think to call Jayco Roadside Assistance. Now I have to chase the warranty repair via Ford. Lesson learned...

[bob393]

Originally Posted by GCAT9110

Hold On, Hold On. Ford like many manufactures use a "hydraboost system" on their 2500 and up chassis, in other words no brake vacuum booster. Their is a hydraulic valve/amplifier where a typical brake booster would go, just behind the master cylinder. Its a better force multiplier than a typical vacuum booster. Yes, it operates off the P/S pump and if you did loose fluid you will still have brakes but with no power assist, same goes for the P/S. However, I am not sure about his comment about replacing 20 feet of P/S hose?? The P/S pump provides pressure for the steering gear box and the hydraboost valve and no where will you find 20 feet of P/S line in that circuit.

+1

It's not that uncommon on heavy duty vehicles. I have it
on a Ford E450, A Chevy 3500HD, and an International.

You do not loose your brakes you just loose the power assist.

You might need two feet on the peddle though.

[Eric H.]

People still chiming in with "hydraboost isn't that uncommon"? This is a gross understatement. With a few exceptions, Hydraboost is the only power brake system used on diesels pick up trucks since the 80's. So the correct statement would be, anything other than Hydraboost would be uncommon.

[WhiteHawk29]

My 22' Greyhawk power steering line also popped off at the slip connector. I also lost power steering and brakes. It was not just harder to stop it did not stop. The tow truck driver also did not believe me so I showed him. I was standing with all my might on the brake pedal and when I shifted into gear at an idle and the unit drove forward. If you can't keep an idling motorhome standing still, you do not have brakes.

[907-Jayco]

Originally Posted by WhiteHawk29

My 22' Greyhawk power steering line also popped off at the slip connector. I also lost power steering and brakes. It was not just harder to stop it did not stop. The tow truck driver also did not believe me so I showed him. I was standing with all my might on the brake pedal and when I shifted into gear at an idle and the unit drove forward. If you can't keep an idling motorhome standing still, you do not have brakes.

Scary, isn't it? Have you dealt with the Ford Commercial Roadside Assistance people for a warranty claim, yet?