Seneca 2018.5 DEF tank error codes

[mcdanger]

BTW Still trying to get FCC to tell me if the DEF is hooked up correctly or not to no avail. Contacted Jayco about the issue of them accepting a broken product from FCC and passing it on to us. Their reponse was that it is an issue with FCC and not Jayco which I understand. I purchase the problem from Jayco and they should be involved with the problem. I have a case number with Jayco and we shall see.

[Rustynuts]

Originally Posted by mcdanger

Thanks for responding to my query about exhaust gas temperature which I feel is very important. I know the temperature probe must be installed for this to be read but is there a seperate input for pyrometer to read EGT in the Bluefire module itself?


2019 Seneca
2018 Wrangler JLUS toad

So with my limited knowledge of the SAE J1939 protocol, there are Parameter Groups (PG) and within those groups are Parameter Group Numbers (PGN). A PG can contain many related PGN’s to control everything, but the ECU may not output them or they do and the App may not see them as it’s not programmed to look for them. So like ISLblues mention, there may be a PGN that reports the EGT but unless that PGN is found by logging data from the ECU and setting that PGN into the App, it won’t show up but I would assume the info is there somewhere.... ISLblues mentioned he will look into the EGT PGN. Just like DEF Temp and Quality was not a gauge that Bluefire could show when I first got it, the next release of the App (4.10) will have these available as a gauge to setup. Now I, no expert but that’s how I understand it and if I am wrong, maybe somebody could explain it more accurately. So the Bluefire system is constantly being updated and improved as people and Beta testers find more information to monitor. From the information I can read on my Seneca, it is well worth getting the Bluefire system to keep an eye on things.

[lslblues]

Mark is great and always looking for ways to make BlueFire even more valuable to us. I found an exhaust temp reading that is implemented on my S2RV - Aftertreatment 1 Exhaust Temp. I've sent that on to Mark to see if he can add it.

[Rustynuts]

Originally Posted by lslblues

Mark is great and always looking for ways to make BlueFire even more valuable to us. I found an exhaust temp reading that is implemented on my S2RV - Aftertreatment 1 Exhaust Temp. I've sent that on to Mark to see if he can add it.

That would be great, thanks. Do you know when Mark will release the 4.1 update?

[lslblues]

I heard just a few days.

[miles ahead]

my 2018.5 Seneca is currently at the Freightliner dealer awaiting a DEF header and to fix the incorrectly routed hoses. FCCC told me that they had to have the techs actually look at the RV to check for the problem. FCCC was very aware of the problem but the local Freightliner Service had not heard about it before.

[Rustynuts]

I just updated my Bluefire dash and added the DEF Temp and DEF Concentration (quality) gauges to my dash, will be nice to be able to monitor these. Having the Concentration gauge is nice to see the quality of the DEF in your tank. The critical percent is 32.5 which the Cummins SCR system is calibrated to. Mine shows at 32%.

[miles ahead]

when you refer to your "dash" is this on an ipad or what are we looking at?

[Rustynuts]

Originally Posted by miles ahead

when you refer to your "dash" is this on an ipad or what are we looking at?

This is my Bluefire for Motorhomes dash on my iPad.

[75462]

Originally Posted by Rustynuts

I just updated my Bluefire dash and added the DEF Temp and DEF Concentration (quality) gauges to my dash, will be nice to be able to monitor these. Having the Concentration gauge is nice to see the quality of the DEF in your tank. The critical percent is 32.5 which the Cummins SCR system is calibrated to. Mine shows at 32%.

What is the PID # for Def Temp?

Thanks so much!

[Rustynuts]

Originally Posted by 75462

What is the PID # for Def Temp?

Thanks so much!

With the Bluefire you just add a new Graphic or Text gauge and it’s in the selection so you don’t need the PID. I have no idea what the PID for Def Temp is.

[Rustynuts]

I’m always diggin..... Seems like DEF Header issues are slowing down, it may just be due to cooler weather that Reversed Coolant lines are not showing up. Anyway, if anybody in the future has issues, show this bulletin to the servicing dealer....it may save you some time and headaches. It says certain 2014-2020 models, thats a LOT broader range than we were originally being told.

[Bruceter]

Thanks for posting Brian!

[Gunfighter]

Originally Posted by Rustynuts

This is my Bluefire for Motorhomes dash on my iPad.

Brian,
Love your iPad “new dash”. Curious about your mount of the iPad. I assume you brought up a USB line to the cubby hole over the driver’s head. Last question, did you scrap your Scan Gauge for the Bluefire?
I also would tell this group that since having my DEF tank hoses changed to their correct position, I have put on about 5000 miles without a problem. I think that that summer heat is a major component of the malfunction. I think there will be a new surge next summer!

[RanWal]

I have a 2019 with 7k miles on it in the shop in Austin Texas right now with the same problem.

[Rustynuts]

Originally Posted by Gunfighter

Brian,
Love your iPad “new dash”. Curious about your mount of the iPad. I assume you brought up a USB line to the cubby hole over the driver’s head. Last question, did you scrap your Scan Gauge for the Bluefire?
I also would tell this group that since having my DEF tank hoses changed to their correct position, I have put on about 5000 miles without a problem. I think that that summer heat is a major component of the malfunction. I think there will be a new surge next summer!

When I installed my 5Fab console I mounted a couple USB ports. I just ran a heavy cord up the A pillar and into the cubby through the hole the Scangauge cord ran through. I agree, the cooler weather will stop this issue from coming up but once summer hits we will probably see a rash of them pop up. I really like that I can now monitor the DEF concentration and Temp on the Bluefire now. I sold my Scangauge to a friend with a Seneca as he didnt have anything yet.

[JohnAZ]

I posted over on the BlueFire thread that on my first drive with the dash up I was able to identify and catch some data on the DEF overheating issue. Sent an email to FcccService@daimler describing the problem. Hope to go into service armed and ready for any pushback or misdiagnosis others have experienced. DEF temp went to 140 and was still climbing after about a 30 mile drive, and DEF concentration was in the Red at about 38%. Maybe last summer it got hot enough to evaporate water out of the solution??

Have been under it and followed the hose routing end to end, but lose sight of the hoses mid-way through. Since they are both black heater hoses with blue stripes I had yet to confirm. Guess it could also be a stuck open solenoid valve.

I will follow-up with the final outcome.

Huge thanks to all who have contributed to solving this issue.

2018.5 Seneca 37HJ

[Gunfighter]

Originally Posted by JohnAZ

I posted over on the BlueFire thread that on my first drive with the dash up I was able to identify and catch some data on the DEF overheating issue. Sent an email to FcccService@daimler describing the problem. Hope to go into service armed and ready for any pushback or misdiagnosis others have experienced. DEF temp went to 140 and was still climbing after about a 30 mile drive, and DEF concentration was in the Red at about 38%. Maybe last summer it got hot enough to evaporate water out of the solution??

Have been under it and followed the hose routing end to end, but lose sight of the hoses mid-way through. Since they are both black heater hoses with blue stripes I had yet to confirm. Guess it could also be a stuck open solenoid valve.

I will follow-up with the final outcome.

Huge thanks to all who have contributed to solving this issue.

2018.5 Seneca 37HJ

Keep in mind that the valve to heat the DEF tank shouldn’t open at temp higher than 32 degrees. That’s what I was told by more than one Service Tech. My lines were reversed and I “burned out” three valves before they corrected my heater lines. Quickest burn out was about 160 miles after being replaced at Salt Lake City. When they “scope” the issue will probably show the heater valve stuck open so they replace it and then it burns out depending on your outside temp. determining the amount of time. Mine were all during summer. When finally figured out my DEF tank temp was 160 degrees. I think you are right about evaporation. After final fix I ran my tank very low to get rid of the “heated” DEF. Good luck.

[Rustynuts]

Originally Posted by JohnAZ

I posted over on the BlueFire thread that on my first drive with the dash up I was able to identify and catch some data on the DEF overheating issue. Sent an email to FcccService@daimler describing the problem. Hope to go into service armed and ready for any pushback or misdiagnosis others have experienced. DEF temp went to 140 and was still climbing after about a 30 mile drive, and DEF concentration was in the Red at about 38%. Maybe last summer it got hot enough to evaporate water out of the solution??

Have been under it and followed the hose routing end to end, but lose sight of the hoses mid-way through. Since they are both black heater hoses with blue stripes I had yet to confirm. Guess it could also be a stuck open solenoid valve.

I will follow-up with the final outcome.

Huge thanks to all who have contributed to solving this issue.

2018.5 Seneca 37HJ

The lines are hard to follow where they start the crossover but being your DEF temp got so high I would bet they are crossed. The easiest way I found was to start at the front and start marking the line coming down from the to of the motor with a marker or paint pen every 6", then its easier to keep track and double check. You really have to contort to reach up where it starts to turn but it is easier with a helper to pull the line back and forth. I had to know for myself if they were wrong and I checked them after FTL did the work and they were still wrong on mine. They only traced from the outside of the frame to the tank.

[JohnAZ]

Wow, thanks guys Rustynuts, Gunslinger, Islblues, et al, for all the helpful input. Hope to get this all resolved with one trip to FL. So these are things I'm pondering:

Has anyone reported correcting the line swap (only) but still having the overheating problem? I was supposing the solenoid valve might be stuck open after 15,000 miles of reverse coolant flow? Thinking the reverse flow must force the solenoid valve on the header open, allowing circulation all the time. FL guidance in the SS 1034491 document says to just swap the lines and clear the codes, DEF Header does not need replacing...

All this is assuming this problem resulted from inattention during assembly, not a later component failure with the solenoid valve (header) or the temperature switch or sensor in the DEF Tank. I could see either of these failures also resulting in continuous flow and overheating if the control system is calling for heat.

Would it be advisable that FL should drain and refill the DEF tank. This past summer with hiway temps well over 120 it might have reached 190 or more. Yesterday it read 38% concentration and down to 7 gals.

Brian, I was thinking of warming up the engine a little and see which hose gets warm first. Took a fall about a month ago and just back on my feet so extensive creeping around under the MH is not gonna happen for another month. But now with BlueFire data confirming the overheat problem I'm more inclined to just have FL deal with it.

Does BlueFire have the capability of reading Fault Codes? I have not run across that in the documentation or screens. I have never had a fault light on, red or amber, but understand minor problems just get logged. Had the MH in FL for service last May, 2020. Do they check for stored fault codes and investigate?

Thanks all.