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Old 07-28-2020, 07:11 AM   #1
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Seneca 2018.5 DEF tank error codes

Good Day All,
Sitting in Wyoming wondering if I should make my 2nd stop on this trip to Freightliner. Question really is a fundamental one of whether I can take my 2018.5 37K Seneca to either Cummins or Freightliner for warranty work? Two days ago Malfunction light comes on Scan gauge shows ID 3363 FM 0 CNT 1. This is the SPR number NOT a Fault Code. The Fault Code is actually 1713 which only the dealer can pull up. I have had a DEF tank heater valve stuck in open position, replaced on June 2, then less than 1000 miles same Malfunction light and yesterday same thing which was replaced at Salt Lake City. Less than 100 miles later another Malfunction light with above 3363 on Scan Gauge. I am heating my DEF on 100 degree days. Canít be good can it. Both instances the temp gauge to DEF tank and sensor found to be accurate. Just wondering if I should be at Cummins or Freightliner, or maybe doesnít make a difference. I am afraid of a Derate as its considered a moderate to severe level!
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Old 07-28-2020, 11:27 AM   #2
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I just posted about the almost daily reports of DEF issues with mostly the newer Senecas of the FB page. I suggested that people start emailing FCC questioning the issues and what is being done about it. I emailed them at fcccservice@daimler.com last night and had this reply this morning. Maybe its possible that your DEF Header is getting replaced with an older sytle unit or if your heater lines are backwards like they mention in my reply and the Freightliner Service is not catching it. I have had that same exact code come up only once and it cleared itself after 3 key cycles with driving time in between cycles. Here is what FCC replied back with this morning, I have since relied with my VIN. I would suggest calling the FCC 24/7 number ASAP and explain the situation, I thing people are getting a better response to getting things fixed correctly going this route. 800-FTL-HELP

"I understand your concerns. I will have to do research to see if your RV was built with that same DEF header. I will need your Vin number in order to do that. With that said, There is a series of DEF headers used on S2 trucks and S2 chassis that were having issues. The main issue was the heater hoses were routed backwards causing it to over heat the in tank sensor and damage it. Most all the units I have seen that have had the issue, Had it before the RV had 7500 miles on it."
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Old 07-28-2020, 12:18 PM   #3
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DEF Header

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Originally Posted by Rustynuts View Post
I just posted about the almost daily reports of DEF issues with mostly the newer Senecas of the FB page. I suggested that people start emailing FCC questioning the issues and what is being done about it. I emailed them at fcccservice@daimler.com last night and had this reply this morning. Maybe its possible that your DEF Header is getting replaced with an older sytle unit or if your heater lines are backwards like they mention in my reply and the Freightliner Service is not catching it. I have had that same exact code come up only once and it cleared itself after 3 key cycles with driving time in between cycles. Here is what FCC replied back with this morning, I have since relied with my VIN. I would suggest calling the FCC 24/7 number ASAP and explain the situation, I thing people are getting a better response to getting things fixed correctly going this route. 800-FTL-HELP

"I understand your concerns. I will have to do research to see if your RV was built with that same DEF header. I will need your Vin number in order to do that. With that said, There is a series of DEF headers used on S2 trucks and S2 chassis that were having issues. The main issue was the heater hoses were routed backwards causing it to over heat the in tank sensor and damage it. Most all the units I have seen that have had the issue, Had it before the RV had 7500 miles on it."

Thanks Rusty. Last night I was wondering if going through the FTL-HELP would get someone with greater knowledge involved. I had a DEF Header installed in SLC but who knows what generation. I had a long talk with the shop foreman and he thinks maybe wiring issue. I am going to advise him of the header and reversed hoses issue. Who knows maybe they have been hooked up wrong from the beginning! Heading out to the dealer know. will let everyone know.
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Old 07-28-2020, 03:10 PM   #4
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UPDATE on DEF heater valve

UPDATE:
I posted a long message of my current history with FCCC representative. Thanks again Rusty for this idea. He called my dealer and they are working on solutions. Learned from FCCC there are 9 rigs broke down around America with the same issue. May be replacement of the DEF header. Will keep everyone posted.
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Old 07-28-2020, 03:47 PM   #5
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Is this something that is isolated to the 2018 model year or does it impact the 2020 models as well?

I have a Malfunction Indicator Light on and will be taking the rig in tomorrow to have it checked out.

Did they give any estimate on time to repair? My rig hasn't even hit 3,000 miles yet.
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Old 07-28-2020, 03:50 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EA37TS View Post
Is this something that is isolated to the 2018 model year or does it impact the 2020 models as well?

I have a Malfunction Indicator Light on and will be taking the rig in tomorrow to have it checked out.

Did they give any estimate on time to repair? My rig hasn't even hit 3,000 miles yet.
It seems to be with the 2018.5 and up models on the S2 chassis. Let us know what you find out.
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Old 07-28-2020, 04:05 PM   #7
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Def

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It seems to be with the 2018.5 and up models on the S2 chassis. Let us know what you find out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EA37TS View Post
Is this something that is isolated to the 2018 model year or does it impact the 2020 models as well?

I have a Malfunction Indicator Light on and will be taking the rig in tomorrow to have it checked out.

Did they give any estimate on time to repair? My rig hasn't even hit 3,000 miles yet.
Dave,
I will post later tonight. Yes newer S2s as my post says 9 Custom Coaches around country with same problem. If you go in and are told its Fault Code 1713 and SPN 3363 then you need to get FCCC involved.
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Old 07-28-2020, 04:27 PM   #8
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Thanks for the info.

I believe I am going to be proactive and shoot FCCC an email tonight with my VIN and see if they ca determine if mine might have one of the affected DEF Headers before I even go to the Freightliner dealer tomorrow.
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Old 07-28-2020, 05:23 PM   #9
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Def header

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Thanks for the info.

I believe I am going to be proactive and shoot FCCC an email tonight with my VIN and see if they ca determine if mine might have one of the affected DEF Headers before I even go to the Freightliner dealer tomorrow.
Dave,
Can't hurt. I had a very quick response. I will guess they will need to know your Fault Code but what the heck. End of day, I'm boon docking in Casper outside of Floyd's Freightliner who are very good people. New DEF Header being shipped in overnight and also will replace the DEF coolant value as described above. Did learn today from schematics received from Cummins/FCCC that my coolant hoses from engine to DEF tank WHERE REVERSED. Usually burns out the values earlier then mine. They are scratching their heads over that issue. Will post anything new or different. I am a child of this wild west country so looking out at foothills of Rockies and watching Antelope graze is okay.
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Old 07-28-2020, 06:06 PM   #10
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This is the reply I got back from FCCC today after I sent them my VIN. Kinda feel it was a run around answer.



"I research this and also reached out to my commercial side for the S2 truck to see what they have also seen. The majority of the issues were DEF tank heater line related and the failure happened before 6000 miles. With that said, there was a run of DEF headers that did not have an non aeration pick up. On those it is fix as fail and the number of failures were pretty low. As in many thing things, you will hear about the 1% to 3% that had an issue and not the 97% that were good. I always feel I have 1 of the 3% with my luck."
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Old 07-28-2020, 06:21 PM   #11
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With what everyone has said and issues they have had, thinking I might call our FCC service folks (Lubbock TX) and see if I can bring mine in BEFORE a fail and have them see if hoses are reversed. 2020 model with 3000 miles.
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Old 07-28-2020, 06:47 PM   #12
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Not a bad idea. You might want to print some of these threads when you deal with your local Freightliner dealer, this is a little off the beaten path. I would guess that a service bulletin will come out on this. Second, buy a Scan Gauge. Will give you the SPR code one layer down from the fault code. Good luck
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Old 07-28-2020, 07:34 PM   #13
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I threw the 3363 code on my 2020 Accolade a little over a week ago when I was crossing South Dakota headed to Glacier and outside temp was mid to upper 90's. My rig had just had its annual Preventive Maintenance as I had hit the 12month mark. (Build Date for chassis March 2019) Unit had aprox. 6500 miles when code popped up on scan gauge. After a little research and a tight schedule I decided to push on and it cleared after a couple on/run cycles. By the time I hit Sheridan, the light had cleared. Drove unit to Kalispell and it never came back on. Returned home yesterday and still no light and no issues. I emailed CS at Freightliner. They are looking into the issue on another unit, I'm guessing with Gunfighters rig and will reply to me.

I have a short trip this weekend then into Freightliner for this issue.

If it matters I don't think Freightliner is the only one having this issue. When I did my research I came across an troubleshooting document for a Durastar Chassis with the same issues of crossed up hoses.
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Old 07-29-2020, 06:53 AM   #14
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I sent FCCC an email last night. Here is the response I got from them this morning.

"David, We have just recently been flooded with calls on this issue. So far I have only 2 at dealers that I have been contacted about. I am working closely with them and Cummins or finding the issue and a fix. When you drop off your RV, let them know that you have spoken to FCCC and that we have notes on your issue. I will do my best to call them as well."

I will be dropping my rig off at the Freightliner dealer later today so it will probably be tomorrow before I know anything. Luckily the dealer is only 4 miles down the road.
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Old 07-29-2020, 09:58 AM   #15
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I received this email from them this morning. Seems strange that Gunfighter was told 9 coaches are down now and I am told no one is broke down or needed towing....but it could be different reps.


"I have currently been bombed by concerns on this DEF issue. I am working with tech's at Freightliner dealers and Cummins currently and seeing if we can determine the issues with the couple that are at dealers now. From all the emails and calls, for the most part, it seems that no one has broke down or needed a tow from the one's I have been working with. Around 12 total calls or emails personally. It seems most get a check engine or MIL light. After the RV is parked over night, the light goes out and then after the heat of the day comes back on. Please get with us if by chance you do have an issue. Hopefully you don't and hopefully we find the issue quickly."
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Old 07-29-2020, 10:08 AM   #16
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The issue I have is the MIL is on and does not go out. It has been on for about 200 miles of interstate travel.
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Old 07-29-2020, 10:13 AM   #17
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Quote:
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The issue I have is the MIL is on and does not go out. It has been on for about 200 miles of interstate travel.

Mine went out after 3 key cycles with driving miles in between them.
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Old 07-29-2020, 10:18 AM   #18
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Mine went out after 3 key cycles with driving miles in between them.
I’ve had a few key cycles and it’s still on. I have the trip to Middlebury next weekend for the slide issue so I figured I better get it in for a check up. Middlebury is 700 miles one way so I don’t want problems on the road.
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Old 07-29-2020, 01:38 PM   #19
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Went to the coach a few minutes ago. and prepped it for the trip to the dealer (all of 4 miles). While there I pull the code from the scan gauge. The code is ID is 4342. Based on the Cummins fault codes the code is the DEF Line Heater.

Attached is a pic of the scan gauge code and the listing of Cummins fault codes.

Click image for larger version

Name:	SGD Code.jpg
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Size:	81.7 KB
ID:	61831

Cummins_Faultcodes.pdf

We'll see what the Freightliner folks come up with.
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Old 07-29-2020, 02:53 PM   #20
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2020 Seneca DEF Heater Valve

I just got done tracing the water lines going to the DEF Heater Valve.
In the Picture the line on the right goes to the header connected to the large hose going back to the bottom of the radiator. The line on the left goes to the side of the engine. Looking at the arrow on the valve I would say mine is hooked up backwards.
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DEF Heater Valve.jpg  
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