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Old 06-24-2019, 04:58 PM   #1
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Seneca Leaning

I know I have seen others post about their Seneca leaning. When I was in for an oil change last month, and the unit was on a perfectly flat pad, I noticed my unit Leaning to the drivers side. Today I took it back to Freightliner for the front end alignment and to address the leaning. I am trying to get as many things addressed before warranty ends this Sunday. I just completed my discussion with the service writer. I a do not completely understand what I was being told over the phone (more of a visual person) but what I thought she was talking about was that the entire frame of the Seneca has twisted. This truck has never been in an accident, is not overloaded, or has ever towed a heavy trailer. Moreover, I have never used the jacks to compensate for severely out of level ground.

I have requested Jayco and Freightliner to come together over the phone to discuss this issue and find a remedy. Admittedly I find myself concerned about this. How could the frame of this truck been twisted?? How can it be put back without damage?? I now feel I understand why the steering is such an issue.

Has anyone rectified their lean? Any opinions are appreciated.
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Old 06-24-2019, 05:37 PM   #2
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Seneca Lean

This might help:


https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f...eft-66969.html
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Old 06-24-2019, 06:32 PM   #3
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Javamon, thank you for referring me to the correct posts on this issue; much appreciated. So apparently there is a shim kit for the front axle. Am I misunderstanding something or would that still mean the frame is twisted??

Clearly it does matter which Freightliner dealer you go to as this one said they called Freightliner and they placed the blame on Jayco. I am finding it hard to believe that the fridge makes it lean. Also, this issue is new as I had not noticed it before.
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Old 06-25-2019, 04:08 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McGintys924 View Post
Javamon, thank you for referring me to the correct posts on this issue; much appreciated. So apparently there is a shim kit for the front axle. Am I misunderstanding something or would that still mean the frame is twisted??

Clearly it does matter which Freightliner dealer you go to as this one said they called Freightliner and they placed the blame on Jayco. I am finding it hard to believe that the fridge makes it lean. Also, this issue is new as I had not noticed it before.
Ryan,


Sounds like a bunch of BS from Freightliner. I would recc. contacting Jayco ASAP (since you said your warranty is about to expire) and get this documented with them as well. I'm sure this has come up before and Jayco will hopefully be able to help get this resolved with Freightliner or at least put you in contact with someone at Freightliner who knows what they are talking about. Follow the suggested links (previous emails) and you will see some have had shims installed to correct the problem. Let us know how it goes.
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Old 06-26-2019, 07:30 AM   #5
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Contacted Mitchell Grooms with Jayco before first posting about this issue on Monday; no reply to this point. Freightliner contracted rep with the company to inquire about shim kit. Many hours holding our breath as they had to take measurements to ensure shim kit was appropriate. Currently parts are being overnighted to Freightliner and are scheduled to be installed today.

As this lean was not present on delivery I still don’t understand how this occurred.
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Old 06-26-2019, 01:39 PM   #6
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It's good Freightliner is now stepping-up. If the re-shimming corrects the problem it would be nice to know how/why this occurred and where exactly they are placing the shims in case this happens to someone else. Please let us know when they get done. Good luck!
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Old 06-27-2019, 05:05 PM   #7
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According to Freightliner, the front end had the drivers side 5/8 lower than the passenger side. These measurements are made to the frame rails. The solution was supposed to be a shim under the axle drivers side front. They calculated that they would need a 1 inch spacer to get things back to normal. Unfortunately, the service bulletin on shims states that only up to 1/2 inch can be added without distorting the geometry of the engine and driveline components (and probably slide outs for us RVers). The 1/2 spacer was used and the front remains 3/8 inch lower on the drivers side with the lean persisting. Jayco finally got back to me this morning and they are looking into the cause.

While I do not have the engineering knowledge that many here do, this sounds like something that needs to be corrected permanently to avoid problems down the road (literally). I feel this could progress to cause binding of slides or issues with driveline components.

I will post back on this when Jayco provides more information.
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Old 06-27-2019, 08:53 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McGintys924 View Post
According to Freightliner, the front end had the drivers side 5/8 lower than the passenger side. These measurements are made to the frame rails. The solution was supposed to be a shim under the axle drivers side front. They calculated that they would need a 1 inch spacer to get things back to normal. Unfortunately, the service bulletin on shims states that only up to 1/2 inch can be added without distorting the geometry of the engine and driveline components (and probably slide outs for us RVers). The 1/2 spacer was used and the front remains 3/8 inch lower on the drivers side with the lean persisting. Jayco finally got back to me this morning and they are looking into the cause.

While I do not have the engineering knowledge that many here do, this sounds like something that needs to be corrected permanently to avoid problems down the road (literally). I feel this could progress to cause binding of slides or issues with driveline components.

I will post back on this when Jayco provides more information.
Did they check out the front springs? is the drivers side front spring defective?
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Old 06-27-2019, 09:08 PM   #9
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Steve, they “said” they looked at that possibility.
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Old 06-27-2019, 09:38 PM   #10
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Ryan, Our prior Class C had a similar leaning problem... I took it to a spring/suspension shop thinking that the rear springs were the problem with the leaning. They looked it over and replaced both of the front springs (coils on a G30 Chevy Chassis) and the entire leaning issue was fixed (did new shocks at the same time).

The next year, because I was so impressed with the work they did, and how little it cost me to fix - I had them take the Hellwig overloads off the rears, and rebuild the factory spring packs of both leaf springs with a progressive rate pack with greater capacity... It rode like a Cadillac for the next few years until we bought our Seneca.
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Old 06-28-2019, 03:23 AM   #11
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Hi Ryan,


Looking at your pictures, it just initially appears to me that the rear end sag is too much to be caused by a front end issue. Has Freightliner eliminated the rear air springs as a possible cause? To fully eliminate the rear air springs as a cause I would evacuate all air out of the rear springs and let the rear air springs bottom out. Once that occurs, look to see if there is still any lean, both the rear and the front. In one of the previous threads, someone mentioned the rear end suspension air proportioning valve as a possible issue. IMO, it's worth a try. Just make sure you are on level ground when you do this. If this is in=fact a front suspension issue, the the lean will be present even if the rear suspension is bottomed out. Hope this helps...this issue really has me curious.
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Old 06-28-2019, 08:21 AM   #12
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Mark S recommended Knox Truck Centers in Knoxville for the reprogram and I thought they were fantastic. Very knowledgeable people and did not charge for Allison reprogram. I am going to try and get in to see them next month and get their opinion.

Steve, do you think another Freightliner dealer may understand this or do I need to find a suspension shop elsewhere. I was in the body shop of Peoria for this last attempt to fix it. You would think a body and alignment shop would know all about suspension and geometry of a frame.

I also agreed that it seems strange that the front suspension is entirely the culprit but was told that the rear air bags had been checked and are not the problem.
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Old 06-28-2019, 08:57 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by McGintys924 View Post
Mark S recommended Knox Truck Centers in Knoxville for the reprogram and I thought they were fantastic. Very knowledgeable people and did not charge for Allison reprogram. I am going to try and get in to see them next month and get their opinion.

Steve, do you think another Freightliner dealer may understand this or do I need to find a suspension shop elsewhere. I was in the body shop of Peoria for this last attempt to fix it. You would think a body and alignment shop would know all about suspension and geometry of a frame.

I also agreed that it seems strange that the front suspension is entirely the culprit but was told that the rear air bags had been checked and are not the problem.
somewhere I recall that they found out that both air bags were connected to the same air supply, and that the individual "ride height valves" were not operating independently with the air bags. The leveling valves are adjustable, but need to be set within a range on the air-bag.
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Old 06-30-2019, 11:25 PM   #14
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Just found this thread but it’s making me a bit nervous. I don’t see any lean with my ‘14 FS but all of the compartment doors on the right side are “tight” on top and make contact with the opening when closing. There is visible “scrape” on top of the doors. My front right baggage door also looks like the attached picture. Dealer said it wasn’t adjustable. What the heck would cause this?
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Old 07-01-2019, 06:31 AM   #15
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Aaron,
Atop our frame is placed a sort of cage or skeleton from MorRyde which give a base for the flooring and these bays. Apparently, this cage is specific to each individual chassis. It is possible that this has flexed over time and caused your problem. However, you can see that there is a black plate behind this doors upper hinge but not the lower. Additionally, each hinge has adjustable holes.

I am scheduled to meet with Freightliner of Elkhart to remedy my lean; the rep states he has “lots of experience dealing with leaning.” While I do really appreciate their willingness to help, that wasn’t something I expected to hear.
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Old 07-01-2019, 06:42 AM   #16
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I had to take one of the doors off to retrieve the screws to the latch which fell apart and dropped into the door shell. I found the two set screws, the one to the left and right of the slide screw were broken. The screw heads were attached but like the majority of self tapping screws in my rig and only the heads were still remaining. It is possible that those are broken on your door and then the door slid on the single screw. I would remove the four set screws and loosen the center screw and align as needed. If the set screw are broken you might have to drill a couple new holes.
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Old 07-01-2019, 12:51 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by McGintys924 View Post
Aaron,
Atop our frame is placed a sort of cage or skeleton from MorRyde which give a base for the flooring and these bays. Apparently, this cage is specific to each individual chassis. It is possible that this has flexed over time and caused your problem. However, you can see that there is a black plate behind this doors upper hinge but not the lower. Additionally, each hinge has adjustable holes.

I am scheduled to meet with Freightliner of Elkhart to remedy my lean; the rep states he has “lots of experience dealing with leaning.” While I do really appreciate their willingness to help, that wasn’t something I expected to hear.
Oof, yes I agree with you on the leaning comment from FL. Good luck and thanks for the tip on the doors. I’ll have a look.
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Old 07-01-2019, 12:52 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by RVermont View Post
I had to take one of the doors off to retrieve the screws to the latch which fell apart and dropped into the door shell. I found the two set screws, the one to the left and right of the slide screw were broken. The screw heads were attached but like the majority of self tapping screws in my rig and only the heads were still remaining. It is possible that those are broken on your door and then the door slid on the single screw. I would remove the four set screws and loosen the center screw and align as needed. If the set screw are broken you might have to drill a couple new holes.
Thanks for the reply. Have some investigating to do this week!

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Old 07-06-2019, 12:13 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by McGintys924 View Post
I know I have seen others post about their Seneca leaning. When I was in for an oil change last month, and the unit was on a perfectly flat pad, I noticed my unit Leaning to the drivers side. Today I took it back to Freightliner for the front end alignment and to address the leaning. I am trying to get as many things addressed before warranty ends this Sunday. I just completed my discussion with the service writer. I a do not completely understand what I was being told over the phone (more of a visual person) but what I thought she was talking about was that the entire frame of the Seneca has twisted. This truck has never been in an accident, is not overloaded, or has ever towed a heavy trailer. Moreover, I have never used the jacks to compensate for severely out of level ground.

I have requested Jayco and Freightliner to come together over the phone to discuss this issue and find a remedy. Admittedly I find myself concerned about this. How could the frame of this truck been twisted?? How can it be put back without damage?? I now feel I understand why the steering is such an issue.

Has anyone rectified their lean? Any opinions are appreciated.
I had a similar problem on my 2019 S2RV chassis by Freightliner. Turned out the bracket for the rear leveling valve for the airbag was bent and therefore the airbag on the driver’s side was not inflating as much as it should. The Freightliner tech adjusted the bracket and all was good. You may have a similar problem with your airbag... Good luck!
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Old 07-06-2019, 05:32 PM   #20
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No one mentioned it but I think I would find a set of scales, one for each wheel, and then see what the weight is on each wheel before you do anything. A good spring shop should have a set of scales.
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