Seneca M2 power uprate

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by RVermont

Mileage is hard to judge as we roll with the generator running most of the time.

The geny probably uses less than 1/2 gal per hour so it basically has no effect on MPG.

[Robbbyr]

In addition to Cummins uprating my horsepower/torque, I also had them enable the exhaust brake while the cruise control is engaged. At least in my unit, stock EB configuration is "off" when the cruise is active. Originally the EB would only activate if I tapped the brake to disengage the cruise, sometimes necessary on steep downhills to prevent gaining excessive speed.

But with the change in programming, my EB will now activate while the cruise control is engaged when my speed hits about 3-4 mph over the set speed. Helps keep me legal on those long downgrades on I-80 across Pennsylvania!

[RVermont]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

The geny probably uses less than 1/2 gal per hour so it basically has no effect on MPG.

True for just driving but when you run the genny for 4 days straight 24 hours per day it starts to change the mpg. Even with that I average 9.1 gpm.

[RVermont]

Originally Posted by Mark S

Funny you should mention local law enforcement. Just this morning I had the pleasure of meeting a Colfax County deputy while driving my Jeep. Apparently the stop sign leaving Angel Fire Resort really is a stop sign and not a slow down and make sure it’s clear sign. The deputy was great and pleasantly reminded me of the importance of stopping even when no one is in sight, except him



The engine reprogram sounds good and I will look into it when we get home in October.

I thought the stop sign with the white lines around it were optional.

[Mark S]

We drove Colorado’s Monarch pass at 11,312’ yesterday. I want this power upgrade.

[MD3]

Originally Posted by Mark S

We drove Colorado’s Monarch pass at 11,312’ yesterday. I want this power upgrade.

Me too....

I only have a couple more weeks till I hit my 2yr "In Service" date then I can get it done. I already have the appointment on my calendar.



_

[foglght]

You get a noticable power increase from additional fuel and timing. The only issue would be "potentially" if you have to get your diesel emissions tested. There is a reason they limited torque, and its usually due to emissions output. The other reason would be turbo temperature. Most modern turbos are good for 700-800C max EGT. If you exceed that on long grades (very easy to do) you will run into problems in the long run.

I'm a bit surprised that Cummins is offering this, so if they are doing the "upgrade" from them directly, its probably ok for the engine. The big question is whether it is legal for emissions.

You can also dump your EGR and DPF filters and grab a bunch of power and increase MPG. Totally illegal, but a lot of diesel owners do this due to the service issues with the particulate filters and EGR systems.

Edit:

Forgot to add. Potentially, the reason they limited torque and power was due to the cooling system. Your rig is only designed to shed so much heat. If you upgrade power and you run on long grades the temp needle may start climbing and you will hear the fan come on more often. If you are at GCW it may overheat or derate anyway if the temps get high enough.

Contrary to gasoline engines, adding more fuel adds power and heat with a diesel. Typically, gas engines add fuel when the temps get too hot to cool the cylinder and keep the catalyst from overheating. This is another reason to be careful. If they raise the max temperatures, your DPF/catalyst is seeing those higher temperatures and may fail sooner than intended from the factory.

[McGintys924]

Originally Posted by Robbbyr

In addition to Cummins uprating my horsepower/torque, I also had them enable the exhaust brake while the cruise control is engaged. At least in my unit, stock EB configuration is "off" when the cruise is active. Originally the EB would only activate if I tapped the brake to disengage the cruise, sometimes necessary on steep downhills to prevent gaining excessive speed.

But with the change in programming, my EB will now activate while the cruise control is engaged when my speed hits about 3-4 mph over the set speed. Helps keep me legal on those long downgrades on I-80 across Pennsylvania!

OK, OK! Now I am going to HAVE to do it!!!!

You guys are all killing me here! 😂

The Seneca is back in November and I am going to talk to Cummins of Charlotte about these two upgrades. Towing the Honda up 77 into VA (Paul knows where I mean) it was not the best it could be to put it mildly.

[Mark S]

Originally Posted by McGintys924

OK, OK! Now I am going to HAVE to do it!!!!

You guys are all killing me here! 😂

So I wonder if we all show up to get the reprogram if we will get a group rate? 😆

[McGintys924]

Originally Posted by Mark S

So I wonder if we all show up to get the reprogram if we will get a group rate? ��

I’m in! It would just be NICE for them to have done all this (engine uprate, OD lockout, transmission reprogramming) before we ever got them. This could have all be done at the dealer in Elkhart before they went to Jayco. This is all just the way they ordered it or 30 minutes of computer time.

[Ender on the road]

So I wonder if we all show up to get the reprogram if we will get a group rate? ��

Oh yeah me too!!

[Mark S]

Originally Posted by foglght

The other reason would be turbo temperature. Most modern turbos are good for 700-800C max EGT. If you exceed that on long grades (very easy to do) you will run into problems in the long run.

I'm a bit surprised that Cummins is offering this, so if they are doing the "upgrade" from them directly, its probably ok for the engine. The big question is whether it is legal for emissions.



Edit:

Forgot to add. Potentially, the reason they limited torque and power was due to the cooling system. Your rig is only designed to shed so much heat. If you upgrade power and you run on long grades the temp needle may start climbing and you will hear the fan come on more often. If you are at GCW it may overheat or derate anyway if the temps get high enough.

Contrary to gasoline engines, adding more fuel adds power and heat with a diesel. Typically, gas engines add fuel when the temps get too hot to cool the cylinder and keep the catalyst from overheating. This is another reason to be careful. If they raise the max temperatures, your DPF/catalyst is seeing those higher temperatures and may fail sooner than intended from the factory.

Anybody care to respond to the above? I climbed Vail Pass yesterday and some extra power would be nice on climbs like that. My fan worked overtime as the engine did some work going up.

Any thoughts?

[foglght]

As long as the engine manufacturer is willing to keep the warranty in tact, it probably isn't an issue. Just make sure the "upgrade" isn't an "off road" tune. Diesel tuners have been skirting emissions for years with off road tuners.

[Robbbyr]

Originally Posted by Mark S

Anybody care to respond to the above? I climbed Vail Pass yesterday and some extra power would be nice on climbs like that. My fan worked overtime as the engine did some work going up.

Any thoughts?

Since I had mine uprated my fan does run more. But once it kicks on the coolant temp always falls quickly. Even on a 5 mile climb on I-80 in PA (85°) the fan still cycled and the coolant temp never got over about 215° and would fall below 200° and then gradually come back up and repeat itself.

[Sam]

i had my performance up grade completed at a Freightliner/Cummins authorized service center two weeks ago. When I arrived, the service manager said he was familiar with this upgrade and would contact Cummins to obtain the program code. He said that he would need to provide Cummins with my VIN and engine serial number insuring my unit was compatible. A short time later Cummins sent the program code, approving the upgrade. The service manager who I have a good relationship with insured me that the upgrade is compatible with my Cummins system, he further said that Cummins would not have provided the upgrade if this was not the case.



All that said, I am confident this upgrade is not going to cause problems. The concern about increase turbo temps is mitigated by the de-fueling system that is incorporated into the Cummins system that happens when temps become critically high. This probably seldom happen.


I am very please with the upgrade. We are leaving for a 6000 mile trip tomorrow from CO to Arlington National Cemetery and a round about way back home. Looking forward to enjoy the new power. Sam

[Robbbyr]

Sam - Have you had your transmission flashed to the performance mode? If not I think you will find it also makes the unit perform much better, especially combined with the horsepower upgrade.

[Sam]

Rob,
After I had the 360/800 program installed I dropped off the Seneca at an authorized Allison service center. The tech said he would send in the VIN and trans serial numbers to Allison and wait for them to send the upgrade code. The next day the service tech called and said Allison advised my trans already had the highest performance mode installed and no additional upgrades were available. My Seneca was preowned. It was originally sold in July 2014 and traded in on a Class A December 2014. We purchased it in April 2015. It had approx. 1400 miles when first sold and approx. 2600 when I bought it. I verified all this at Freightliner before the purchase. (Verify and then trust.) Very famous man said this. My thought is that the first owner had this done.


When I drove home from Allison, approx 100 miles, as I have said before I was impressed with the increased power. Further, the trans shifted stronger. It shifted up at lower RPMs and downshifted at higher RPMs. I have over 39,000 miles on the unit and I very familiar with its shifting patterns. I am sure it is not my imagination. However, I am 79 years old so who knows, Maybe I had this done and I don't remember. That is a scary thought. My DW may or may not completely agree.
Sam

[Mark S]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I think I will do the upgrade when we get back to Florida in about 3 weeks. We are doing the Eisenhower tunnel tomorrow so it would have been nice to have it now.


Rob- have your temps always been in that range?

[Robbbyr]

Originally Posted by Mark S

Rob- have your temps always been in that range?

Hope you are enjoying your adventure Mark!

My "cruising" temp was and is around 190°. The fan kicks in around 215°, both before and after uprate. The fan does seem to come on more frequently, likely a result of me willing to use the extra power at every opportunity! On flat, steady driving it still stays below the fan cut-in temperature, it usually only comes on climbing grades just like before. And like before it will also kick in periodically when stopped or going very slowly in heavy traffic. Since the cab air conditioning is almost always on I'm sure that triggers the need for the fan too when crawling or stopped in traffic.

I am not worried a bit about toasting the turbo or other components like people who have aggressive aftermarket tunes in their Cummins pickups. I am confident Cummins still has a protective "cushion" in our uprate.

[Mark S]

Thanks Rob, that’s what I wanted to hear.

And yes, this has been a great summer trip.