Slideout with Engine Running?: 2020 Redhawk 24B

[alazear]

I'd like to keep the motor running while putting the slide in and out on my 2020 Redhawk 24B. It has a big slide, which is why we bought that model. There seems to be some sort of a nanny defeat switch that prevents you from operating the slide with the engine running. Anyone know how to disable this so I can operate my slide in and out with the engine running? I did a search and came up empty.

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by alazear

I'd like to keep the motor running while putting the slide in and out on my 2020 Redhawk 24B. It has a big slide, which is why we bought that model. There seems to be some sort of a nanny defeat switch that prevents you from operating the slide with the engine running. Anyone know how to disable this so I can operate my slide in and out with the engine running? I did a search and came up empty.

Is the slide switch in the control center? If so, pull the cover and look for a relay behind it that may be connected to the ignition. Or look near the controller.

[RetiredOne]

Originally Posted by alazear

I'd like to keep the motor running while putting the slide in and out on my 2020 Redhawk 24B. It has a big slide, which is why we bought that model. There seems to be some sort of a nanny defeat switch that prevents you from operating the slide with the engine running. Anyone know how to disable this so I can operate my slide in and out with the engine running? I did a search and came up empty.

I believe it's a safety issue. I've tried to do that too. Also, the awning won't go out if the engine is running too.

Just wondering, why do you want the engine running when operating the slide? I usually bring mine in or out after plugging into shore power.

[TwinDad]

What’s the reason behind wanting the engine to run while operating the slide? I assume it’s to help preventing the slide motor from draining battery power? If that’s the case, you can just run the generator while moving the slide in and out.

[CAG]

"If that’s the case, you can just run the generator while moving the slide in and out."

The engineers thought that we would not be able to figure out that we should be plugged in or have the genny running to avoid killing the battery. In the case of a few owners they may have been correct but most of us can come up with 4 when we put 2 and 2 together.

[Gord60]

Originally Posted by alazear

I'd like to keep the motor running while putting the slide in and out on my 2020 Redhawk 24B. It has a big slide, which is why we bought that model. There seems to be some sort of a nanny defeat switch that prevents you from operating the slide with the engine running. Anyone know how to disable this so I can operate my slide in and out with the engine running? I did a search and came up empty.

Why?? Just plug into power or run the generator. Not being able to move the slide with the chassis engine running was done for safety reasons....

[SloPoke]

Our Seneca has nothing similar... I can start up the chassis and let it warm up while Stacy is bringing in the slides before retracting our leveling jacks.

[alazear]

Shore power is no problem for slide in/out.

Just got back from a 4 day dry camping trip. Had to move the rig numerous times following the wind around a lake for kiteboarding, sometimes multiple times per day. Each time battery got drained a bit more. It's a big slide sucking some juice. I'd just like to be able to move the slide in/out with the rig running. An electrical engineer told me the engine alternator charges house batteries way faster than the generator does which he said is more like a trickle charge comparatively with the engine alternator, which makes sense.

My kiting buddy with a different larger rig has to have his engine running or his slides won't operate at all. So this nanny stuff is ridiculous and unnecessarily in the way, for me at least, but I like manual [nanny free] things in general.

There are two slide switches in my rig: Controller panel switch + stand alone switch by bed.

Took both switches off the wall and no relay I can find either place. Then got in back cabinet to check the main slide control box. No relay I can find there either. Don't know where to look next.

[RetiredOne]

Originally Posted by alazear

Just got back from a 4 day dry camping trip. Had to move the rig numerous times following the wind around a lake for kiteboarding, sometimes multiple times per day.

Sounds like fun, but why are you running the slide out every time you stop? Most everything is accessible with it closed, specially if you think you're going to move a second time during the day.

An electrical engineer told me the engine alternator charges house batteries way faster than the generator does which he said is more like a trickle charge comparatively with the engine alternator, which makes sense.

I did some testing, and the alternator does a great job putting quick juice into the batteries. I ran the coffee maker off of my inverter, just on batteries and then with the engine running. The engine kept the voltage up on the batteries during the cycle.

So, here's a suggestion, how about letting the motor run 5 - 10 minutes before you plan on bringing in the slide? This way, it will have plenty of juice...

BTW, you DID install a second battery in the steps, right???

[RetiredOne]

Originally Posted by alazear

Just got back from a 4 day dry camping trip. Had to move the rig numerous times following the wind around a lake for kiteboarding, sometimes multiple times per day. Each time battery got drained a bit more.

Another thing... speaking of battery drain. The chassis battery doesn't charge off of the generator or shore power, so if you're restarting the engine multiple times everyday, you stand a chance of killing the chassis battery, if you don't run the engine long enough to put that juice back into it...

[alazear]

Hi All,

Thanks for the suggestions.

Retired One,
Seems like we always end up talking about our issues with the 24B on this forum. Maybe we'll meet sometime in some really cool campground down the road and have a beer. I always appreciate your insight as you've got more experience with this than I and seem to always be a step ahead of me in troubleshooting things with this rig.

To answer questions more deeply:
I don't always bring the slide out when stopping for short times and most often will leave it in if I know I'm moving in a few hours or less. But this time we thought we were staying in one place only to move around a bit later. It really highlighted this issue that until now was just an annoyance rather than a big deal. Now it makes me want to track it and solve it. In thinking about it, if the awning has the same issue, the relay has to be in a more systemic place further up stream. Humm...

I don't ever seem to have any issue with the chassis battery getting drained moving around. It always acts like just a normal car, no issues. But, like a car, I don't push it either.

I am having issues with the house batteries getting drained and the idiot lights are zero real help. I have two 12 volt deep cycles for the house, but am considering replacing them with two 6 volts for more juice. They got drained badly this trip. They were weak enough due to lack of attention on my part: I could not start my generator to recharge them, keep my fridge propane lit for dry camping, or bring back in the slide. I ran the engine for a good half hour knowing the batteries were in trouble before attempting to bring in the slide. Even so, in the end, I had to jump the house batteries to get my slide back in to drive home. Since you can't have the rig engine running while operating the slide, this adds to the available juice problem. Sketchy.

Then, on the 5 hour drive home via the alternator charging everything, the radio kept turning off and then restarting, first time for that. So, I turned the house batteries completely off - to see if the radio did the same thing running solely off the alternator + chassis battery because I was curious. The radio continued to die and restart. I found this quite weird given the radio should have been running solely off the chassis battery at that point, the house batteries being turned off via the master switch. After driving home with no radio, then fully recharging the house batteries via shore power - the radio seems happy again.... very weird.

This whole endeavor made me think adding two 6 volts + solar is a good idea to avoid serious battery drain going forward. But I don't know where to start with solar. I know the rig is "solar ready", I know it has the roof connection for solar as I've seen it up there, I need to find the lower solar connection box - suss out what to do and then go shopping. I'm super handy, know how to wire, but have not done that job before. Like most things I do, I'll figure out how to put it in myself. I'm sure the options will make my head spin.

[RetiredOne]

Originally Posted by alazear

Retired One,
Seems like we always end up talking about our issues with the 24B on this forum. Maybe we'll meet sometime in some really cool campground down the road and have a beer. I always appreciate your insight as you've got more experience with this than I and seem to always be a step ahead of me in troubleshooting things with this rig.

Ha.. I appreciate that, but I never expected to get all this experience fixing/repairing/upgrading a brand new rig... I wish we didn't have to talk about so many issues....

You peaked my interest, and I'm going to do some digging around to see if I can find this relay for the slide, to see if it can be bypassed.

Regarding the idiot lights for the battery, I never trusted or used them, and would always go to the handheld digital meter to check battery voltages. I finally got tired of doing that, so I installed a digital voltmeter in the side of the sink cabinet, so I can monitor voltages. When I see the voltages falling to the 12.2 range, I get them charged up... I'm in the camp of always trying to keep them topped off.

I had a issue with the coach battery that came with my rig. After testing it, I could see it was weak from being run down or killed by Jayco and the dealer over and over. It didn't hold a charge long. I temporarly put in a second used battery last year that I had laying around just to get me through the season.

The beginning of this year, I put in two new DC24 batteries, and I haven't had any issues. Don't know the status of your batteries (did they come with your rig?), but if they've been heavily discharged a few times, that might be why they don't last long now. Normally, just running the slide and running your fridge on propane, shouldn't run them down that fast. Have you load tested the batteries to check their health?

Regarding solar, I'm kicking that around too. I have a few 180 watt panels and a charge controller, but we don't dry camp that often that I'll need it. The connection for solar is in the compartment to the left of the propane tank. Take a flashlight and look up to the upper back, and you should see the cover plate.

That radio deal sounds strange. It should not have a problem staying on when the engine is running... it actually sounds like a loose connection as you bounce down the road.

[JimD]

Yes, an alternator can supply more current that the typical converter. BUT, unless you have some really heavy gauge wiring between the alternator and the house battery, you won't be able to get what you want.

I attached a wire gauge chart that shows the gauge wire recommended for the current that you want to draw. If your house battery is only 10 feet away from the alternator a 6 gauge wire would be required to get some serious amps from the alternator. I wonder what gauge wire Jayco runs in their units.

An alternator can put out a lot of amps to a chassis battery because it is only a few feet away. So yes your friend is correct in the respect that an alternator can put out more but odds are it won't to the house battery. I don't agree with the statement that a converter is more like a trickle charger. My stock converter can put out 60 amps. That is definitely not a trickle charge!

Wire gauge and run length are the determining factors. Another thing to consider is efficiency. Is it better to run a big truck engine or small generator motor to charge a battery.

I have a set routine when boondocking. When I am set in my spot I will fire up the genny for probably 10 minutes or so. During that time I will extend the slide, levelers, and awning. I also will activate my Direct TV dish which requires 120 volts and allow it to lock on the satellites. Once done the generator is shut down and the batteries are still setting at full charge. Works for me.

[alazear]

To Retired One + Jim D,

Thanks to you both. Excellent suggestions and details to consider as I wade through this electrical stuff. It certainly helps to have experts to consult. Jim D, your wire gauge explanation of car vs. generator vs. efficiency is super helpful. Retired One, at the very least I'm going to get a real voltage gauge to mount so I can see what's going on and not just guess or have to pop the cover with a manual one. I'll look into the battery's health as well.

[alazear]

So this is weird.

In troubleshooting my battery issues above, I found the following: If you physically disconnect your house batteries, as opposed to just disconnecting them via the master switch, the radio will not power up at all.

It seems to me it should power up, as at that point it should be pulling 100% power from the chassis battery. There must be a slight constant draw or at least a connection needed from the house batteries to make the radio run. Odd.

[RetiredOne]

On my rig, if the red switch for the coach batteries is off, the radio won't power up. With the red toggle on, the radio runs off of the coach batteries.

When the red toggle is off, the only way to get my radio to run off the chassis battery is to turn on the ignition switch.

[alazear]

Exactly the same normal operation on my rig. The additional piece I discovered today is this:

If you physically disconnect your house batteries at either terminal + or - as opposed to turning them off via the red light isolator switch, the radio won't work at all, key in, key out, accessory, etc. No matter what you do, it won't turn on. Shouldn't the isolator switch have the exact same effect as manually disconnecting the batteries, yet its effect on the radio is indeed different.

Since the radio should be getting 100% of its power from the chassis battery once the house batteries are disconnected, it should turn on with the key in accessory mode or better with the chassis batteries physically disconnected, but it doesn't. The house batteries are somehow necessary for radio operation even when the radio is supposed to be pulling from just the chassis battery. Odd.

[alazear]

Sorry for the confusion. I only ever disconnected the house batteries for this test, not the chassis battery.

[RetiredOne]

OK, here's some additional information. I was looking at a wiring diagram that I got from Jayco. First, it answers the question about the slide lockout relay and the awning lockout relay. Looks like they are both in the rear wardrobe, by the main panel.

Second, it looks like there is a dual diode that feeds the radio power. It might be coming off of the isolation relay that charges the house batteries when the engine is running, and provides the memory/power up for the radio when the coach battery is hooked up.

Here's the diagram:

[alazear]

Thanks. That make sense on both issues. If I discover anything after I go looking, I'll get back to you.

I don't need to look for the radio diode, as it's not a problem. I was just confused on the radio behavior driving home the other day with drained house batteries, but that could explain the cutting out and restarting of it.