"Solar Ready" and upgrading battery etc

[Mustang65]

Originally Posted by Rueckert

Another question...if I do put in the 6 6volt batteries...2 as house battery, and a pair of doubled ups....if you are driving down the road and running engine, will the alternator charge them all? and how fast will running generator charge up the bank? 675 amp hours - 6 Trojan 105s

I am not sure what you want to do here by having 2 as house batteries and a pair as a doubled UPS? Can you explain what you want to achieve here?

Don


My Registry

RVing with SOLAR

[Rueckert]

sorry i wasn't clear...I would use 2 6 volt batteries to replace my single 12 volt house battery....and add 4 more 6 volts so I have a total of 6 six volt batteries and amp hours of 675....I want to start out with portable solar suitcase...think Zamp 180 or 230 watt suitcase.....and obviously can chrge with my generator.....just trying to gauge how long charge times are...or will alternator driving charge bwhole battery bank...drawn down say 100 amp hours? same for generator? I expect to use at least 100 amp hours a night....my big question is running the tank heaters in my rv...how much they draw...I don't want to over tax my battery bank and if the 230 watt panels won't charge back up...i should still run generator?

[Mustang65]

You can not use power from 2 of the 6 batteries and then hook them ALL together to charge them up. The batteries need to be at the same level so that they get an equal charge across them. If you hook them all up for charging and were not discharged together, odds are that some of your batteries will be overcharged and some undercharged.

Leave them all tied together. Whether you use 150 Ah from 2 of the batteries or all 6, you are still going to have to put 150Ah back into them. The batteries are the driving force in charging, they pull the amps from the device used to charge them. So they only take what they need. Which will shorten their life.

Use this diagram to hook them up

Don
My Registry

RVing with SOLAR

[Rueckert]

Yes....I shouldn't have made it complicated for how I will arrange the batteries but yes, the 6 batteries would be configured as you pictured....then the questions are...will vehicle alternator charge the whole bank as it drives? or maybe better to ask at what ppower does the vehicle alternator charge? and if i do a 200 watt portable...will it sufficiently charge? and or using the generator? I am assuming doing a 150amp hour draw down nightly....so...for example...would I need to run generator a half hour? or an hour and a half? if the 200 watt solar puts out 10 amps...and an all day charge...seems enough.

my variable yet is how much the tank heaters will draw on the 110 which i would hope to power thru the shore cable to an inverter from the 675 amp hour bank

[Mustang65]

Originally Posted by Rueckert

……...my variable yet is how much the tank heaters will draw on the 110 which i would hope to power thru the shore cable to an inverter from the 675 amp hour bank

OK, Grab your multimeter and crawl under the RV. Find where there is a connector for the tank heaters. If you can un plug it and take a resistance reading of the resistance cable. We can then calculate how many amps it will use
Don

My Registry

[URL="https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/groups/44-rving+with+solar.html"]RVing with SOLAR [/URL

[Rueckert]

Ok...have to get a multimeter first haha....should have one I expect anyway...

Thanks so much Don for all the help...I am getting there...learned a lot so far.

[pconroy]

Originally Posted by Rueckert

my variable yet is how much the tank heaters will draw on the 110 which i would hope to power thru the shore cable to an inverter from the 675 amp hour bank

I don't recall if my Greyhawk uses this brand of heaters or not, but you can view common amp draws here. https://www.ultraheat.com/ultraheat-rv-tank-heaters

There shouldn't be much variability from brand to brand. You can see these things suck electricity.

If you're planning on cold weather camping, you could do some things to help them work out, like wrap some Reflectrix insulation around the tank, or maybe spray foam some insulation on.


Have you found a spot to store those batteries?

[pconroy]

Originally Posted by Rueckert

\will vehicle alternator charge the whole bank as it drives? or maybe better to ask at what ppower does the vehicle alternator charge?

On my Greyhawk the alternator does charge both house and chassis batteries. But I also have one Group 27 battery for the house. I'm not sure how big the alternators are in an E-450 but I don't know if they'd have to oooomph to charge a huge battery bank that's been discharged.

If you're planning on 6 6V Trojans, I'd think you'd be best served by charging them via Solar or generator.

if you're cold weather camping, that means less sun, lower sun, more clouds. Less time to get those batteries back up to full charge.

Read up a little bit on shading and solar panels, as well as parallel vs serial. Not to deter you, just to share a little bit that there are a handful of factors that'll reduce the power you get from the panels.

[Rueckert]

Thanks Pconroy....yes, they draw a LOT of amps...that is what I worried about. Jayco claims the same as Ultraheat does - that tanks are protected to 11 below zero which makes me think they are getting the heat elements from them. I looked underneath and the tanks (or at least the black water one) is very exposed with the rubber heat pad under it (coming loose already which doesn't thrill me - it being new...grr). But yes...has to be some insulation that would help too. To me...the weak link is if you are driving in the cold that it would freeze....once parked obviously worry about cold but seems designed with 110 available, you'd just be plugged in. I will be out in the mountains of New Mexico or Colorado (one plus side is mostly clear skies and very intense sunlight often). I am thinking of carrying some 1" foam insulating sheets (the kind with the metalic foil on one side) and taping them flat against the underbody with duct or painters tape (onto visible places for clean removal) to keep them from the elements. I carry a big hitch hauler and even thought of making a mini skirt that would fit underneath my Greyhawk by standing up the sheets of foam and taping edges - just skirt tanks and bathroom area...maybe any visable water lines....just throw a 100 watt trouble light under for heat source also

[Rueckert]

as to charging a battery bank....has tobe info out there on how much the alternator puts out....as well as how much charge comes out of the Onan RV QG 4000 The dealer said it would recharge a house battery in a half hour or less...if each of my 6 batteries was equal to the amp hours of a "normal" 12 volt deep cycle with a reasonable drawdown, that would be run for 3 hours. I figure if I put in a bunch of solar charge from a 200 or 180 watt Zamp Suitcase in all day exposure, I could run it maybe an hour? and again another half hour in morning? Obviously I am thinking I need some battery monitoring system also...hmm

[Screwby]

Another item to look at in your system is your converter. I didn’t realize there was such a huge difference in converter quality for RVs. Cheapie converters can sometimes take a whole day to recharge your batteries while hooked to a generator or shore power. On the other hand it seems the higher end “intelligent” converters that have multi stage charging will charge your battery bank much faster, safer, and make your batteries last longer by conditioning them. I’ll be upgrading mine soon. I have a factory one that I think can be improved upon.

[pconroy]

Originally Posted by Rueckert

I will be out in the mountains of New Mexico or Colorado (one plus side is mostly clear skies and very intense sunlight often).

Welcome.

Yeah - the UV radiation will be intense at elevation around here. But so will the extreme low temps, as you know.

There are a couple of Youtubes out there with folks wintering in the snow up here. It really brings to light how poorly insulated these things are and how hard it is to get thru. The amount of propane burned by the furnace is pretty large.



The coldest I'll do in our Greyhawk is about 0* F for a few days. And that's plugged in, with tank heaters on with a small heater blowing on the water pipes in the basement and a lightbulb to keep the 'fridge from freezing up.

At night it seems like the furnace runs constantly.


Anyway - good luck!

[Rueckert]

Yeah...seen the crazy You Tubers living in rvs in winter ...but as a guy on a hunting trip, sometimes it is warm, but can also dip pretty damn cold...I remember one epic hunt up on Greenhorn mountain west of Pueblo when the low temp broke the record by 17 degrees...was 23 below and we were in a tent...obviously an extreme case. But doing a late October hunt at 9000 feet...can very well do teens as lows, but likely in the 30's if not 40's daytime. Push come to shove, even if I don't use plumbing...cozy warm rv...and I will carry multiple extra 20# propane tanks and be warm...and even if I ren a generator all night too haha...that's why i bought a dang RV to be comfortable!

[Rueckert]

So Pconroy....you said Greyhawk...and you said "basement"...you mean the open underneath? you skirt it when it gets cold? I am thinking the 1' foil sided foam wedged up under and make a mini basement...throw in a lightbulb for heat...mini heater is going to draw a lot more amps....

[pconroy]

Nope - the "basement" is the back storage area in our 31FK. That's where the water pump is and a lot of plumbing. I've never camped where it was cold enough to skirt the RV.

It's usually me and my son and we just want a little get-away. If the temps are in the 20's during the day, we'll head up to one of our favorite sites that still has electricity on.

Come December, I just winterize everything and wait for spring.


Bear in mind that there are still a lot of exposed plumbing / joints / elbows on these things that could freeze. What some other folks do is just winterize their RVs and do without the water parts of camping.

[Screwby]

Originally Posted by Rueckert

So Pconroy....you said Greyhawk...and you said "basement"...you mean the open underneath? you skirt it when it gets cold? I am thinking the 1' foil sided foam wedged up under and make a mini basement...throw in a lightbulb for heat...mini heater is going to draw a lot more amps....

Skirting it will make a tremendous difference, even if it’s just the heavy fabric skirting you can buy. It keeps the cold wind from sucking the heat right out of the bottom of your camper and helps keep the belly warm. We always skirt our camper for winter, otherwise it would be almost impossible to heat it and avoid freeze ups.

[dmatt13]

This seems to be a good place to drop in and ask a question (not trying to hijack). If a unit comes from the factory with solar already installed.... Panels, 1000w inverter, etc. Is that the best way to go, or should I by pass that option and install myself?
I'm just starting out looking at a class C (Melbourne)

I am not really comfortable with electronic components, etc

[Screwby]

Originally Posted by dmatt13

This seems to be a good place to drop in and ask a question (not trying to hijack). If a unit comes from the factory with solar already installed.... Panels, 1000w inverter, etc. Is that the best way to go, or should I by pass that option and install myself?
I'm just starting out looking at a class C (Melbourne)

I am not really comfortable with electronic components, etc

I would want to know what brand, how much cost are they passing to me, and is it installed right. Hiding the cost in the price of the RV might be charging you way more than a comparable or better setup. I’d want to know I was comparing apples to apples. The way they slap together other stuff, I’d be wary of quality install unless proven wrong.

[dmatt13]

Originally Posted by Screwby

I would want to know what brand, how much cost are they passing to me, and is it installed right. Hiding the cost in the price of the RV might be charging you way more than a comparable or better setup. I’d want to know I was comparing apples to apples. The way they slap together other stuff, I’d be wary of quality install unless proven wrong.

Very good points, thanks

[Rueckert]

Dang I just picked up my 26Y from dealer after getting Generator repaired (long story but I was doing yourself oil and air filter change and was running generator to warm up oil and trying to change air filter...air sucked air filter cap into engine housing and blew up generator...thanks for insurance!!!) Anyway...my planning for battery upgrades just got hurt seeing how tiny battery drawer and the neighboring compartment is...damn.

also...after running generator an hour and driving 50 miles...house battery reads 10.7 volts...not good